Burned for a lot of money

Thanks for sharing. You only charge $24/hour? I should have you do my cars! :D



Of course, I don't have enough cars for a volume discount. :(
 
bigltc said:
This guy probably burns contractors like this on a regular basis.
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Exactly.



And, contracts/estimates/quotes/lawyering mean nothing to these types of personalities. Often, they are small business people themselves who have made it by living large in the margins aka taking advantage of people that they know they can get away with.



I have been thinking about going full time into the detail business, but I'd be under the assumptions that I could keep a small, respected client base like I enjoyed with a rather large lawn service I used to operate and have zero problems.



I know better.
 
What a story, thanks for sharing and sorry to hear about that. I don't understand how people like "J" can feel they're right about this and continue living life like nothing ever happened.
 
Good story man. Couldn't have told it better myself. Not only do we do that but we do walk throughs on every car and make them sign a release saying that we are not responsible for blah blah...
 
"J" is a typical CLASSIC.





They are extremely lavish with praises, and are experts in making the service provider feel good. Their praises appear genuine, and the modus operandi is:





1. Make you feel great.

2. Allow you to do a few NICE cars and paying you with no delay.

This gives you a great impression of him.



And then.....you're HOOKED





He'll expect any future jobs to be priced very low since you're such a "friend" now.

So, those 1st few cars you did......you actually lose money back to him.





These are shrewd, unehtical business people who use the same classic trick on many other people.





Don't be surprised.....this person will be spreading bad news about you to all his business contacts, and even your other vendors.





You shd check with your vendors....did he use the same trick on your vendors????
 
If I'm "J".....and you asked me to sign a contract before commencing work, I'll just act surprised and shrug it off saying since we're such good friends, and hv such a good relationship, and since you're such a fantastic detailer, and since I trust you so much (!!!!), signing anything is not necessary. Again, I will lavish compliments on you to make you feel BAD for even thinking of asking a TRUSTED customer to sign a contract. Hey dude!!! I trust ya!!! Go ahead and do it!!





JC...this moron already INTENDED to do it to you.





He won't sign anything, and while the work is in progress, he won't even want to see updates or reports that talk about the cost/price. He'll just shrug off anything.......and act surprised on that FINAL DAY. Standard trick.
 
Called it.



The joker just sent me an email asking me to do his Bentley that he couldn't find anyone else would do to his expectations.
 
Jean-Claude said:
Called it.



The joker just sent me an email asking me to do his Bentley that he couldn't find anyone else would do to his expectations.
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You could either teach him a lesson, or take advantage of the situation. Get a signed contract for 2x your going rate and demand cash up front.
 
The business side says charge 2x as much, cash up front.



The ethical side says to tell him he was fired as a client and know he is just not worth the trouble.



yakky said:
You could either teach him a lesson, or take advantage of the situation. Get a signed contract for 2x your going rate and demand cash up front.
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yakky said:
You could either teach him a lesson, or take advantage of the situation. Get a signed contract for 2x your going rate and demand cash up front.
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I don't think that simply turning down the job is the way to go. You have to take your personal feelings and put them aside, and look at this strictly from a business point of view. The "business" would certainly be willing to do it, but would want a signed contract in place, and if a fear of non-payment is possible, then payment up front, or payment before the vehicle is returned to it's owner. The "business" would also want an increase in pay, to cover the time and effort spent last time in getting payment.
 
WAS said:
I don't think that simply turning down the job is the way to go. You have to take your personal feelings and put them aside, and look at this strictly from a business point of view. The "business" would certainly be willing to do it, but would want a signed contract in place, and if a fear of non-payment is possible, then payment up front, or payment before the vehicle is returned to it's owner. The "business" would also want an increase in pay, to cover the time and effort spent last time in getting payment.
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I am not a business owner nor a professional detailer, but how is this not a "business" point of view? Non-payment/under-payment means banishment from most commercial establishments. You think you could have somebody at Subway make you a footlong sandwich, and then only pay for a portion of it, steal the sandwich, and then come back next time acting like nothing happened? I bet most managers wouldn't even let you in the store!
 
amcdonal86 said:
I am not a business owner nor a professional detailer, but how is this not a "business" point of view? Non-payment/under-payment means banishment from most commercial establishments. You think you could have somebody at Subway make you a footlong sandwich, and then only pay for a portion of it, steal the sandwich, and then come back next time acting like nothing happened? I bet most managers wouldn't even let you in the store!
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Good job with the subway analogy...lol, but that would be an example of how to lose a customer for life. Instead think of a bank, telco, or power company. They just tack on more fees to your bill until you are squared up. In fact they'll let you go for a long while without paying and then send you to collections. Business is about taking opportunities and making something of them. I don't know many successful business people who do it to teach people life lessons.
 
Jean-Claude said:
The business side says charge 2x as much, cash up front.



The ethical side says to tell him he was fired as a client and know he is just not worth the trouble.
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It won't be worth the hassle. Even if he pays 2x now, up front, in the end you'll regret doing it, imo.
 
yakky said:
Good job with the subway analogy...lol, but that would be an example of how to lose a customer for life. Instead think of a bank, telco, or power company. They just tack on more fees to your bill until you are squared up. In fact they'll let you go for a long while without paying and then send you to collections. Business is about taking opportunities and making something of them. I don't know many successful business people who do it to teach people life lessons.
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This is not quite the same. Car detailing is an elective service. A power or telephone company has a STRANGLE hold on you, because you don't have any other options. Don't like your power company? Tough sh*t! You'll have to either pay up, or live without electricity, and they know you aren't going to do the latter, so they have no problem just tacking on fees, because they KNOW you're going to have to either live in the wilderness, or square up with them. By the way, in the telephone/cable TV industry, they do credit inquiries to make sure that you will pay up before they even let you sign up for their services...



And this whole situation is an issue of credit-worthiness. The "customer" had excellent credit in the beginning, but then he missed a few bills and then refused to pay the full amount owed. Your credit would drop fast in the finance/loan industry, and it does the same thing in the eyes of business owners, I'm sure. How do you know the claims of the seller now that "coming back because nobody else would do it" are true? You don't! You can't trust this guy anymore because he has already violated your trust, even from a business standpoint.



Ever heard of the phrase, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me?"



Just my two cents!
 
yakky said:
Good job with the subway analogy...lol, but that would be an example of how to lose a customer for life. Instead think of a bank, telco, or power company. They just tack on more fees to your bill until you are squared up. In fact they'll let you go for a long while without paying and then send you to collections. Business is about taking opportunities and making something of them. I don't know many successful business people who do it to teach people life lessons.
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By the way, it really depends in the Subway scenario if the customer was really just coming on some hard times, or whether he was trying to extort his was into getting a free/half price sandwich. If he was just having some trouble paying the bills, sure he could come back later and be welcomed as a paying customer. But he'd have to pay for other half of that sandwich he didn't pay for last time first.



In the case with the OP, it is obvious that the guy was trying to extort his way into getting detailing services on the cheap. Until he pays for the other half of the detailing he finagled his way out of last time, I don't think there is any way that a sane businessman could seriously consider doing business with this guy again.



Tacking on fees until he gets his money won't work either, because if I remember correctly, the customer never signed anything. No contract was ever drafted!
 
I had a guy kinda like this... Was on a weekly contract to have his 750Li washed once a week. The price was $200/month and he even signed a contract and everything. He kept skipping weeks where it was harder of a job plus longer in between payments. I got him to sign a revised contract where he could only miss one appointment per month because I can't reserve a spot for him every wed afternoon and then get left out to dry. I loose his $ plus the $ I could have made working somewhere else. So if he wasn't there after the first miss, it cost him a week of washing. He got outraged once he noticed what he signed and what was happening to his washes. He said that I was "stealing" washes from him and threatened to call the police on me (I was 17 at the time). I told him if he wants a detailer, I was his man. If not, theres a tunnel wash 2 min from your work (where I did his car). I wasn't rude, but had to stand up for myself and wasn't gonna take crap like that for all that I did for him...
 
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