Bulletin: Toyota does not approve of Paintless Dent Repair

David Fermani

Forza Auto Salon
SOURCE: ALL DATA COLLISION

TITLE: PAINTLESS DENT REPAIR

SECTION: REFINISH BULLETIN #60

MODELS: ALL



Toyota’s Technical and Body Training Development has completed its evaluation of “paintless dent repair� procedures marketed to the collision repair industry. In general, the damage is “door ding� type where an obvious point of impact exists.



Toyota does not approve of this repair procedure based upon the following analysis:

1. The vehicle is not returned to a “pre-accident� condition in these areas:



*The paint film no longer has its original strength due to microcracking, the immediate appearance may not look acceptable, over time however, ultimately refinishing may be required. Microcracking of the paint film can range from fine cracking visible only by magnification to the very obvious (easily seen with the naked eye), depending upon the initial damaging impact.



*Potential exposure of the metal substrate to condensation accelerates rust penetration. The base coat may also be degraded by ultraviolet (UV) light penetration through the clear coat.



2. Mechanical manipulation disrupts the factory applied rust and corrosion protective coating, and in some cases removes it completely from the back of the panel. Repair technicians experience difficulty replacing this important component of longevity, potentially reducing the long-term value of the vehicle.



3. In some cases, gaining access to the backside of a door panel is accomplished by unacceptable procedures:



*Using blocks as a wedge between the window molding and the glass for a tool access damages the window rubber/molding and relieves the factory designed pressure on the window glass.



*Drilling holes in the end of a panel allows corrosion to begin at the site or a path to the back of the panel.



In the interest of customer satisfaction and safety, Toyota doe not approve of these methods. As new tools and technology come to market, Toyota will evaluate the process for appropriate application.
 
Seems like a risk / reward type of thing...



If a person can pay $50 to get a ding removed, versus replacing the panel, they will probably pay the $50 for the PDR and take their chances....especially if it is a lease return or a vehicle getting ready to be traded or sold.
 
:hm In other words, bring it back to a geniune Toyota dealer for refinishing.



I've yet to see an issue with work done by a quality PDR guy.
 
Scottwax said:
:hm In other words, bring it back to a geniune Toyota dealer for refinishing.



I've yet to see an issue with work done by a quality PDR guy.



+1 agreed a quality PDR guy can do factory quality or bettery work. I just need to get my front fender done, my wife scrapped a tree/fence or something and cracked it and scrapped the paint (to deep for polishing)
 
Scottwax said:
:hm In other words, bring it back to a geniune Toyota dealer for refinishing.



I've yet to see an issue with work done by a quality PDR guy.



i bet if a toyota dealer were to get into the PDR business they wouldnt even mention this to a customer.
 
Toyota Corporate is just covering their caboose. Even franchised Toyota dealers will continue to utilize PDR guys on their own lots to keep costs down. This bulletin is to circumvent any rust/corrosion warranty claims, and an opportunity to deny those who choose to repair a vehicle by the PDR method.



It makes sense to me. If I compound the clear off a two year old Camry- is it covered under the 7 year paint warranty? If someone upgrades their turbo on an 07 STI and ends up running lean enough to pop a cylinder- is Subaru going to replace the motor? Third party parts or service won't ever be covered by the factory warranty- do it their way or don't expect support.



This won't effect the high end PDR tradesmen, their work is flawless and will leave no trails of service.
 
Imagine all those hail claims on Toyotas where PDR won't be allowed if they go the dealer body shops for repair? If the shops show the insurance company this bulletin, they won't be allowed to do PDR. No matter how reputable the PDR tech is. This could have a direct influence on insurance premiums and PDR techs.
 
Well I have fixed a few Prius Hoods and Roofs in Austin this hail season. I can tell you this much the insurance co don't give a rats A** what toyota says.



Some may not Know this but Mercedes has been using PDR in their factorys since the forty's. I was at a GM plant and saw the in plant PDR guys tools sitting next to a car he was working on. I'm sure the other Mfg's are doing the same thing to cars in the factory.

In fact I just remembered. Some Porsche's were damaged in port on the east coast

and they hired PAR's to fix them.
 
David Fermani said:
JM Lexus has a PDR guy on staff don't they?



Sewell Lexus has a good one.



I talked to a friend who owns a body shop and contracts out the PDR work. Says he has absolutely no worries about what the guy can accomplish without harming the finish. This is from someone who stands to benefit greatly if PDR were to go away completely.
 
David Fermani said:
Imagine all those hail claims on Toyotas where PDR won't be allowed if they go the dealer body shops for repair? If the shops show the insurance company this bulletin, they won't be allowed to do PDR. No matter how reputable the PDR tech is. This could have a direct influence on insurance premiums and PDR techs.



David - Take a 2 year old Camry with average mileage...what's that worth...$15,000? If it has been hailed on, and the roof, trunk, hood, and the top of the fenders have damage, wouldn't replacement of those panels and a repaint constitute a total?



I am sure the insurance companies will love that. I had to fight hard a couple years ago to get my car totaled that was struck by lightning (all the electronics were fried, antannae fried, and hole in the back where it exited). It was only a $12,000 car, and they were STILL wanting to try to repair it....unbelievable.
 
weekendwarrior said:
David - Take a 2 year old Camry with average mileage...what's that worth...$15,000? If it has been hailed on, and the roof, trunk, hood, and the top of the fenders have damage, wouldn't replacement of those panels and a repaint constitute a total?



I am sure the insurance companies will love that. I had to fight hard a couple years ago to get my car totaled that was struck by lightning (all the electronics were fried, antannae fried, and hole in the back where it exited). It was only a $12,000 car, and they were STILL wanting to try to repair it....unbelievable.



An 06 Camry goes anywhere from $15,000-18,000 and an insurance company (in most states) can and will write their estimates up to 75% of it's value(some can do 100%). Or, if there's the chance of extensive hidden damage (flood/fire/lightning) they can do a "Constructive Total Loss".



As far as hail damage on a Camry, unless it has extremely major hail dents or it's cheaper to replace the panel (hood/fender/trunk) it's totally repairable by conventional body repair. Even if you replaced the roof/hood/truck/fenders and painted the entire car, it's not even close to being a total loss. It's not that expensive.
 
They probably wouldn't approve of rotary work on their cars either. PDR is like detailing, there are good ones and bad ones. A good one isn't going to crack your paint or expose the substrate to potential rust etc.
 
Playing Devil's Advocate:

Unless we look at the area under magnification and/or examine the backside of a body panel, how do we know? I'm sure if Toyota makes an announcement like this, they had some pretty good techs work with them on testing.



If Toyota makes this claim, what's stopping other car companies from following suit? It's not as if Toyota is making their own paint, it's aftermarket that's used on other OEMs.
 
David Fermani said:
If Toyota makes this claim, what's stopping other car companies from following suit? It's not as if Toyota is making their own paint, it's aftermarket that's used on other OEMs.



Playing Devil's Advocate right back...how much do body shops at Toyota dealers stand to benefit from this? A lot of people are under the impression that the body shop at the dealer is the best place to take their car for body work.



Poor conventional body work can also leave the car owner with rust problems, along with mis-aligned panels, visible sanding marks under the paint, wavy panels, paint mismatch, etc.
 
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