Blind Squirrel Hoping to Find a Nut

I could say a few things but I will just say toss out the Opti-Seal. Besides over the top of Opti-Coat, Opti-Seal is not very durable at all.

Good to know on the OPT, was having some doubts. Also think going Kamikaze will be overkill. One, for a beginner’s skill level, and two, this isn’t a show car, but a daily working car. Keeping proper expectations of cost/benefit/skill level. I was leaning toward the Gyeon, but was surprised the PolishAngel came in at essentially the same cost.

I might have missed it but there will be times when a waterless wash will not be enough and you will have to go with soap and water. Even on a coated vehicle.

Remember this is supposed to be fun and enjoy yourself. For me half the fun is trying new products.

Tempted to actually just get two foam sprayers (one for degreaser, one for soap), rather than just using a waterless wash in a compression sprayer. Using something like a 3D Pink Wash or a Chemical Guys HoneyDew Snow Foam. My understanding is the Gyeon Bathe Essence is a full wash soap (just highly concentrated), but maybe I’m under the wrong impression. However, I am a bit skeptical of the Bathe Essence since it seems too good to be true, and if it sounds too good to be true it usually is. Yet the detailing world seems to continue to advance and progress, so trying to keep an open mind with these concentrated products.
 
Keep a good slick coat of wax or sealant on it, or coating, if you go that route, and you’ll be good to go

Okay, hope I am keeping this straight. Wax is a natural product that covers, but doesn’t bond. Sealant is a synthetic “wax” that bonds to the paint. And a coating is synthetic, bonds to the paint, but has greater longevity than a sealant. The level of skill also increases with each as well as the longevity of the product? So, for the vehicle in mind and the skill level I’m thinking I max out at sealant.
 
If you will please advise us what is the year, make, model, color, of the test subject for this ? That will help us guide you more accurately..
And if you will also provide the same info for the new van, that will be good too..

Merry Christmas !
Dan F

I drive the beigest of beige— an ‘08 tan Nissan Altima (inherited from my mother-in-law, who did order it special with leather seats so can’t complain).

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The Lady’s vehicle is an ‘18 Kia Sedona in platinum graphite.

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Perhaps the best way to approach is to break it down a bit and then focus on the specific areas in a `functional` manner. Determine what will best fit your planned needs and desires and then see if recommended `best practices` for each specific area.

For example, can start with paint protection. What are your primary concerns/needs in this area? Will longevity of suitable good appearance be necessary or are you going to wash weekly regardless (or more often)?

With a daily driver, what climate do you live in? If a nicer climate, perhaps longevity is not as great a concern as you can refresh year round if necessary and the climate may take less of a toll on the paint. I mention this in consideration of your reference to Polish Angel, which is very easy to use, has an amazing look all its own...but is not the toughest/longest lasting solution out there.

When looking for LSP, the following are the main considerations in my world but likely different for all:

`live in NE Ohio so all ny findings/thoughts are based on that climate. The characteristics of a coating that matter most to me are:

1. Great Self Cleaning Abilities: Our cars see rain and often get rained on in the morning and then sit outside in the sun in the afternoon; don’t like waterspots. I like clean cars but don’t like cleaning cars.

2. Durability and resistance to environmental contamination like water spots and bird bombs. Don’t wanna have to worry about running home and immediately dealing with removing things that would otherwise etch bare paint. Like hard water spots did to our Corvette during the Zaino years. Also has to last cuz I don’t wanna be hauling out compounds and polishes every Spring, given reasonable maintenance.

3. Appearance: Well, stuff has to look good. Has to accentuate body lines, curves and hard edges. It needs to make me stop and admire it when walking towards it, walking away from it or catching a glance in the garage when I take out the garbage.

Have tried a boatload of coatings, watched `em over the course of 20k-40k miles in NE Ohio, variety of vehicle usage and maintenance patterns and that allowed me to choose what works best `for me`.

My favorite coatings have other, less tangible aspects that add to the overall enjoyment of them but the main attraction is they meet my primary criteria, that being they just plain work.

Once I had my cars where I want them (Paint, glass, wheels, tires) maintenance going forward is Gyeon Foam, Gyeon Bathe (not Bathe Essence, tried it, did not like it) and some Overcoat occasionally after wash. Takes about 20 minutes per vehicle, 2 of which are black, and leaves only a wash mitt, 2 drying towels and an plusher towel to wash afterwards.

What I`ve found is that, while initially more time/work to get to the `where I want it point`, going forward is a breeze and cars stay in far, far better condition with very little effort, relatively.

As far as expense/cost, it does not always pan out that more $$ = better results, product wise...but sometimes it does.

22ple HPC is one of the best coatings around for limited maintenance usage, the stuff is tough, looks good and lasts a long time and has one of the most bizarrely easy applications of any product I`ve used aside from Polish Angel.

I first used on a fleet van at work in March 2017. Since that time its piled up over 45k miles, been washed by hand twice, run thru a soap/rinse touchless wash about 4 times but otherwise sits outside 24/7, 365 days a year. I wash/light clay and add a topper once a year but aside from that, rain keeps it looking relatively freshly washed all of the time. It`s a nice, molten glass type of gloss.

I still use when I get a chance to do a white or metallic crimson vehicle for someone, despite my preference for another coating on my personal cars as it really looks great on those colors and I`m never sure how they will be maintained. Its not cheap at around $170 for 50ml aside from sales but it`s a case of the additional cost being worth it given its overall exceptional performance in my experiences.

And in the interest of total disclosure, I had a massive spreadsheet worked up when I was deciding between a Rupes or Griots BOSS longthrow polisher. Individual units v combo packages, pad costs, projected sales opportunities around the holidays, parts, reliability predictions, repair costs in the long term, etc. so I`m not always just wingin` it.

It`s a hobby for me, albeit one that must eventually lead to definitive results, so even the `misses` with regards to purchases teach me someting... and the `hits` sure are fun. However, I can certainly understand that may not be the most practical approach. And, given this great community of Autopians, I can always ship the remainders of anything I have to a wider variety of testers to find out if a product is truly not performing as advertised or if it didnt work for me cuz I was too dumb to use it properly; I think I`m running about 50-50 in that area

The journey is just as important as the destination for me...and therein lies the fiscal irresponsibility for me. There are certainly `worse` habits though.
 
Perhaps the best way to approach is to break it down a bit and then focus on the specific areas in a `functional` manner. Determine what will best fit your planned needs and desires and then see if recommended `best practices` for each specific area.

For example, can start with paint protection. What are your primary concerns/needs in this area? Will longevity of suitable good appearance be necessary or are you going to wash weekly regardless (or more often)?

With a daily driver, what climate do you live in? If a nicer climate, perhaps longevity is not as great a concern as you can refresh year round if necessary and the climate may take less of a toll on the paint. I mention this in consideration of your reference to Polish Angel, which is very easy to use, has an amazing look all its own...but is not the toughest/longest lasting solution out there.

Climate is Houston area. No salt and winter driving to contend with, but heat/humidity and heavy rains. Longevity would be nice, but do plan to wash every couple weeks, and can wash year round. Our old van (silver Honda) never got really dirty, but never looked great either. Of course I never really knew how to even wash a car properly.

Once I had my cars where I want them (Paint, glass, wheels, tires) maintenance going forward is Gyeon Foam, Gyeon Bathe (not Bathe Essence, tried it, did not like it) and some Overcoat occasionally after wash. Takes about 20 minutes per vehicle, 2 of which are black, and leaves only a wash mitt, 2 drying towels and an plusher towel to wash afterwards.

What I`ve found is that, while initially more time/work to get to the `where I want it point`, going forward is a breeze and cars stay in far, far better condition with very little effort, relatively.

This is exactly what I am looking for. Know it will take some effort to get there. So if I’m going to take the effort, I want it to take, so going forward I can do quicker maintenance washes.
 
Just a suggestion ("unintelligent" or humorous; you decide) :
Take the "L" out of your Autopian log-on name.
"Carkitect" , sans the suggested "L", just "sounds" more Autopian (told you it was unintelligent or humorous).

I will award you the Autopian travelling "Empty Blue Tin of M16 Professional Wax Trophy" for the longest, most technical thread in some time!!! However, maybe it SHOULD go to BudgetPlan1, after all his posts about coatings.
I am just not sure how we are going to pry it away from longtime Autopian All-Star Kevin Brown`s typing-calloused fingers.
 
Climate is Houston area. No salt and winter driving to contend with, but heat/humidity and heavy rains. Longevity would be nice, but do plan to wash every couple weeks, and can wash year round. Our old van (silver Honda) never got really dirty, but never looked great either. Of course I never really knew how to even wash a car properly.



This is exactly what I am looking for. Know it will take some effort to get there. So if I’m going to take the effort, I want it to take, so going forward I can do quicker maintenance washes.
Given the climate, color of vehicles and usage I`d suggest (bearing in mind there`s about 100 different ways to skin this cat, all of them equally valid):

PREP
Gyeon Iron
Cobra Clay Mitt
Gtechniq Panel Wipe

POLISH:
HD/3D One (have not used yet but seems to get good reviews)
Griots 6" DA
6 Lake Country Flat pads - Orange
6 Lake Country Flat pads - White

PROTECTION
If ya wanna do something about every 6 months, Polish Angel Master Sealant topped monthly with Polish Angel Rapidwaxx

If you wanna coat for the long term, 22ple HPC topped with 22ple VS1 Final Coat monthly

WHEELS
Gyeon Rim is nice, does very well, reasonably priced. Kamikaze Stance is double the price but applies easiest of any I have used and has lasted the longest. May be overkill given your climate though.

TIRES
TuffShine Cleaner and Tire Coating kit. Bit if work initially to clean things for application but once done, solid and easy to refresh every couple of months if you want. I hate wheel and tire cleaning so I`ll spend some $$ and time avoiding frequent interaction with my tires and wheels...just too messy to deal with frequently so I want `one and done` for the longest haul possible.

GLASS
Gyeon View is nice, cost effective. Found Aquapel cheap, easy and effective but never rode it long enough to see true longevity so that may be a possibility as well.

MAINTENANCE
Gyeon Bathe and if you go pressure washer/foam cannon Gyeon Foam does well for me. Whole pressure washer/foam cannon is a matter of opinion but with black cars, I prefer caution (if it`s relatively easy, that is)

Griots PFM or similar twisted loop drying towel although I will use Rag Company Platinum Pluffle at times.

That`s just off the top of my head based on what I`ve used and read favorably about, exterior wise. I`m a complete incompetant regarding interiors so best advice I`ll leave to others.

These are the things I`ve found to make keeping my personal cars clean with a minimum of effort and i certainly wont say its the `best` but it seems to work for me.

YMMV
 
You’re taking this way to seriously! I’ve been in business detailing for 20 years now and my recommendations to newbies is find one brand that has all the products in one kit. This will get you from start to finish and at a less expensive outlay. As you gain experience you can add on products. Just my opinion?
 
You have been researching and are all over the place.

Best to always keep it simple.

My first question is do you want to use a wax, sealant or ceramic coating for protection? A coating require more prep work and will often last longer than a wax or sealant. It will come down to personal preference. I have not used a sealant in years as I have migrated over to coatings.

From your list of products I would not recommend Bathe Essence, Gyeon Syncro, Opti-Seal. They are not strong performers. I would look at alternatives for these. Budget gave you a nice option for a coating.

You have many options to choose from and you will get a lot of recommendations.


You have many options when it comes to polishes. The products available today are very good. I would skip on hyper compound. Read too many post on here and social media that it does not finish well.

3D One works well. It is quite versatile. It does have a chemical scent so if you are sensitive to smells then it may be an issue. Or wear a mask when using it. I found it to be pretty potent to my sense of smell. But it did work well.

If you wish to stay within the 3D line they have their HD Cut and Polish.

The new Meguiar`s M110 and M210 are pretty good.

Sonax Cut Max and Sonax Perfect Finish or EX 04-06 are another good option.

Optimum Hyper Polish is one of the nicest polishes. Leaves a very nice finish.

The list goes on.

Seeing as you are getting a GG6 DA, you have the option of getting into their polishing creams and pads.

If you are looking for towels then the Rag Company Edgeless 300 is a good option for coating, wax or sealant removal. The edgeless 365 is great for compounds, polishes and prep wipes.
 
Okay, hope I am keeping this straight. Wax is a natural product that covers, but doesn’t bond. Sealant is a synthetic “wax” that bonds to the paint. And a coating is synthetic, bonds to the paint, but has greater longevity than a sealant. The level of skill also increases with each as well as the longevity of the product? So, for the vehicle in mind and the skill level I’m thinking I max out at sealant.

We wish it was that easy. Manufacturers use the term “wax” to include synthetics also. Many “waxes” have zero carnauba (or natural) waxes in them. Many “waxes” contain both carnauba and a synthetic component for durability. A pure sealant will (most of the time) last longer than a carnauba wax. They both bond to the paint. Both a sealant and a wax are applied the same way, same skill set for both. A coating lasts longer than a sealant due to using different polymers that cross link and bond tighter to the surface and contain SiO2 for hardness (this does not apply to all coatings). When you step up to a coating more skill is necessary, but it is still not rocket science. Clear as mud right?

I would suggest skipping the pure carnauba waxes to begin with due to their lack of durability.

Two of the forum favorite sealants are Collinite 845 and FinishKare 1000p and almost everyone here has one or both of them. They are inexpensive and long lasting and a great choice for the detailing novice.
 
There’s also the matter of how the last step product looks. To be overly simple, typically sealants have a glassy, “coated candy” look while carnauba has a warm depth. If you are after a certain look, you may notice these differences between them.
 
Thanks for the in-depth analysis.

It saved me some money.

I`m more like a nut looking for a blind squirrel.B)
 
Clarkitect- Welcome to Autopia!

I`d caution against getting too complicated about all this. I`d just focus on getting it nice and clean and shiny and then keeping it that way.

Beware of Internet Wisdom (oughta be in scare-quotes) and of jumping in the deep end in one fell swoop. Keep everything manageable and ramp it up when you see the need/desire.

I`d almost certainly do some kind of decontamination, although it might not *really* be necessary. Have you determined that it *is* necessary? (I know, everybody says to decontaminate all the time these days...)

So you *do* want to get into paint correction, right? You really do look at the vehicles and think "gee, I need to polish out that marring and I`m confident they`ll stay marring-free once I`ve done that"...right? Nobody`s gonna touch the paint in-between washes, etc. right?

Maybe you could just wash it up *really* thoroughly, go over it with an All-In-One (AIO) product, and top that (after the next wash) with some FK1000P, and then just wash it for a while and see how things go.

Note that one of my vehicles has paint that`s *very* similar to your "biege" and the FK1000P looks great on it. The Collinite 845 (or one of their others) is also good, and very user-friendly, just doesn`t last as long for me.

IMO there`s no need to go overboard when starting to get serious about this stuff, and plenty of reasons to *not* do that.
 
There’s also the matter of how the last step product looks. To be overly simple, typically sealants have a glassy, “coated candy” look while carnauba has a warm depth. If you are after a certain look, you may notice these differences between them.

Not overly concerned on final look. Obviously want it to look “good,” but the primary concern as a relative working vehicle (not a showpiece) is the longevity and ease of continued future cleaning/maintenance.
 
You’re taking this way to seriously! I’ve been in business detailing for 20 years now and my recommendations to newbies is find one brand that has all the products in one kit. This will get you from start to finish and at a less expensive outlay. As you gain experience you can add on products. Just my opinion?

There is a method to my madness. In my field, I work with a lot of designers and consultants. My job is to get many disparate parts together into a cohesive whole. Often I need a solution to a design problem. There are two ways to go about eliciting a response to a problem. First, just ask for a solution, and then ask again, and then ask some more. The second, put a solution out there (even if you know it isn’t all the way there, or especially if it isn’t all the way there) and sit back and watch the quick response flood in. So far, the second solution has been panning out well. Plus, I’m having a ton of fun, and getting myself out there in this community. My wife says I often go overboard (you should have seen my Autopia shopping cart at one point), it’s an occupational hazard, and now you all know I go overboard. Trying to have the Autopia community help me dial it back with those who have been there and done that.

I like the idea of going the one brand route, and had a couple of those going at one point. However, as I continued to do research, I was finding benefits of one product by a manufacturer that offered benefits that maybe wouldn’t get me there in a kit. One example, I like 3D’s Orange Degreaser, one because it can be diluted at different concentrations for a multitude of uses, and two I like the idea of cleaning the interior of my vehicles with a product with an orange/citrus scent. I also like 3D’s AIO solutions for polishing, but think there may be better cleaning and final product solutions out there. I am liking a lot of the Gyeon products, and am leaning toward stocking up on much of their products via a kit (or two). ;)
 
I`d almost certainly do some kind of decontamination, although it might not *really* be necessary. Have you determined that it *is* necessary? (I know, everybody says to decontaminate all the time these days...)

So you *do* want to get into paint correction, right? You really do look at the vehicles and think "gee, I need to polish out that marring and I`m confident they`ll stay marring-free once I`ve done that"...right? Nobody`s gonna touch the paint in-between washes, etc. right?

I do think it needs decon since I can feel quite a bit of particulate when rubbing my hand over the finish, even when it was delivered all cleaned up from the dealer. And if I’m gonna decon I have resigned myself to paint correction (plus there are a few very minor scratches I’d like to amend).

Maybe you could just wash it up *really* thoroughly, go over it with an All-In-One (AIO) product, and top that (after the next wash) with some FK1000P, and then just wash it for a while and see how things go.

Note that one of my vehicles has paint that`s *very* similar to your "biege" and the FK1000P looks great on it. The Collinite 845 (or one of their others) is also good, and very user-friendly, just doesn`t last as long for me.

IMO there`s no need to go overboard when starting to get serious about this stuff, and plenty of reasons to *not* do that.

Me, overboard?! ;) Trying to dial it back, and it’s been therapeutic to get this all out there and hear from the Autopia community. I am teetering between this track and the one BudgetPlan1 has laid out. I think I’ve settled on a Gyeon track for wash, decon, tires, wheels, & glass (with 3D Orange as a degreaser for wheels, engine bay, and interior seats and carpets), and 3D One for polish. The final internal debate is just going with the FK1000P wax (I actually don’t mind waxing, it’s relaxing for me to work over a vehicle with a wax), or coat it knowing I may not be able to devote the time to rewax the van as often as I’d like.
 
Clarkitect- Just FWIW, I use degreasers to....degrease stuff. Which I hardly ever do. So I don`t use my citrus degreasers on my interiors unless I have a specific reason for doing so. I do get the "does it all!" appeal of such stuff, and have used many liters of P21s Total Auto Wash in that way, but I no longer do that and my TAW basically sits on the shelf these days. (I do know from having to clean interiors..think "big active dogs".)

BTW, I like that you`re employing Critical Thinking Skills when approaching this Detailing stuff. I believe that "going overboard" and "overthinking it" are often just judgments passed on those who are thorough by those who aren`t, and as long as you`re having fun with this stuff it`s all good, but there are some benefits to keeping it manageable while starting out. If nothing else, consider how many days (not hours) you`ll have to spend, with the vehicle out-of-service and kept clean/etc. the whole time, when you do the first Big Detailing Job. I`m assuming that staying focused/meticulous for hours on end isn`t a problem for you, but some people start to get, uhm....lax...about some things after doing them for hours on end, especially when those things that require both mental and physical precision.

And I will repeat my caveat about believing Internet Detailing Wisdom (including mine), let alone ad-copy.

When I read:
Not overly concerned on final look. Obviously want it to look “good,” but the primary concern as a relative working vehicle (not a showpiece) is the longevity and ease of continued future cleaning/maintenance.

I go back to "just AIO it, apply some FK1000P, and then wash it for months, applying another coat of the FK after a wash whenever it`s convenient".

And of course while I was keying this post in, you posted back about my previous one...and/so I`ll hit [Submit Reply] and see what you just posted :D
 
I do think it needs decon since I can feel quite a bit of particulate when rubbing my hand over the finish, even when it was delivered all cleaned up from the dealer. And if I’m gonna decon I have resigned myself to paint correction (plus there are a few very minor scratches I’d like to amend).

OK, but I`ll caution you to aim for "much better" rather than "perfection". IF you go with mechanical decontamination rather than chemical, be careful you don`t mar the paint up a lot worse than it already is. I`d caution against the "a little more won`t matter as I`m correcting it anyhow" mindset.

GET GREAT INSPECTION LIGHTING! Heh heh, hope that was sufficiently emphatic to make an impression ;) Seeing what`s going on is utterly crucial and not as easy as many expect.

IMO it`ll be a lot easier to get the paint "good enough for FK1000P" than "good enough for a coating" and applying Last Step Products (LSP) like a wax is a *lot* less likely to go sideways than applyng a coating. The FK lasts a long, long time for me..enough so that I don`t plan to coat my vehicles (not hating on the coatings, I`ve used them on wheels).

That reminds me, if you put some protection on your wheels you can just clean them with shampoo rather than a degreaser (and again, I wouldn`t/don`t clean my wheels with degreasers anyhow).

I`d only expect to need a degreaser one time for the engine compartment/undercarriage/wheel wells; after the initial cleanup the same shampoo mix I use on wheels is plenty strong, and unlike you I`m dealing with stuff like Ohio winters.

When buying shampoo, consider that you`ll go through it pretty fast. I only buy shampoo in gallons myself.



Me, overboard?! ;) Trying to dial it back, and it’s been therapeutic to get this all out there and hear from the Autopia community. I am teetering between this track and the one BudgetPlan1 has laid out. I think I’ve settled on a Gyeon track for wash, decon, tires, wheels, & glass (with 3D Orange as a degreaser for wheels, engine bay, and interior seats and carpets), and 3D One for polish. The final internal debate is just going with the FK1000P wax (I actually don’t mind waxing, it’s relaxing for me to work over a vehicle with a wax), or coat it knowing I may not be able to devote the time to rewax the van as often as I’d like.
 
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