blatant autopia myths.....

Status
Not open for further replies.
wannafbody said:
according to Brad E since water is a cleaner any product that contains water must now be considered a "cleaner wax"-give me a break:rolleyes:
Click to expand...



Are you for real? The water in water based prodcuts is NOT a cleaner.
 
i can make a point with humor or i can say something bluntly if you disagree with me that's fine- IMO Zaino is a good product(i've never posted that it wasn't) that gets a bad reputation because some of it's users tout it as the only MIRACLE PRODUCT that exists :(
 
Seems as though 50% of the threads I read here have to do with product selection and this and that. Which leads me to my myth (if you can even call it that):

Some people believe that the products you use will have a drastic effect on your end result. In other words, in thier minds the products they use will have a greater effect on the end result than the process they used.



People are constantly asking what products to use for this and that. Everyone has thier own opinions, find what works for you and stick with it (or spend $100's on new stuff just for the hell of it like me and continue trying new stuff...doh!).



I will indirectly quote Accumulator here b/c I agree with him 110%....A mildly aggressive polish followed by a fine polish will handle 99.9% of all your needs (in Accumulators case he uses 3M products, as do I).



Everything comes back to another quote, "Prep 90% Product 5% Other 5%. The procucts you use have VERY LITTLE to do with the end result. If people would focus the amount of energy on their prep as they do on looking for these super products I am confident they will have nicer looking finishes.



Disclaimer: I will not dispute the claim that certain products work better with certain color paints and that certain waxes produce different results(depth/shine/clarity/darkness/etc) than others. However, it's still all relative to your prep.
 
wannafbody said:
but water does clean-you can't argue with the facts ;)
Click to expand...



The water in water based products is a binder to hold the resins and other materials in suspension and keep them emulsified, it's NOT a cleaner.



In order to make a water based product into a cleaner product you need to add one of two things; 1) Mechanical Abrasive 2) Chemical Abrasive such as refined solvent.
 
JDookie said:
Keep in mind guys that this a thread discussing *myths* which means there isn't going to be much in the way of *fact* discussed here,
Click to expand...



I hear ya. But his post is a myth because nobody has posted these alleged myths!



Unless the search button proves me wrong, I have not read anywhere that the bulleted list he provided is the school of thought here.



Maybe the old Armor All recipe before it went water-based. That's one OTC related thing I can think of. But, everyone uses it now in some fashion!
 
wannafbody... Warning 1. Please review our rules. Personal attacks are not permitted. Your posts in this thread also seem to be intentionally antagonistic.
 
wannafbody said:
but water does clean-you can't argue with the facts ;)
Click to expand...



Water cleans...yes, it does in fact, clean.



However, within the car care industry, the definition of a cleaner is something that contains abrasives. In fact, the term 'cleaner' is just another word for a compound.



The term cleaner is one of those nebulous terms recently invented by the industry because it "sounds" better or is more acceptable to the average detailer than the word compound.
 
There are some ideas that you often see at autopia. Which I do wonder about. I'm still not sure what products actually "layer" and what the actualy advantages of layering might be. I think posters sometimes make very strong assumptions about that issue, but in some cases, the facts are not really in yet.
 
BradE said:
NXT is a cleaner wax.



Lets examine further, it's a wax, it has cleaners, and according to Mike Phillips isn't layerable. Yep, sounds like a cleaner wax to me.
Click to expand...



That's exactly what Mike Phillips told me as well several years ago, so I don't know why wannafbody is calling it a "myth".
 
JDookie said:
This thread is heading in the wrong direction, either get back on topic or I will have to close it.



Click to expand...



100% Agree ! This is not in keeping with what people come here for. :angry
 
Just chiming in. IMO cleaner waxes are products that actually removes contamination or oxidation. Products like NXT does not remove contamination or oxidation, so I would not call it a cleaner wax. It has some weak chemical cleaners in it probably so the polymer can bond to the paint. It is intended more to remove oils, dirt so the wax would stay. Yes it is not layerable like Ziano, but do you really think Ziano is actually being layered on top of each other. IMO the solvents in waxes/ sealants probably remove some of the previous layers so I doubt you could actually apply more than two or 3 layers. The 7-8 layers is actually a waste of time. Also if the product creats such a slick surface you can't really apply something on top that sticks. So both wanafbody and brad is some what right.



As far as myths fillers are great in polishes because it actually save a glazing step. Most OTC products are not great, but some are really good like 3M, Meguiars #26, Mothers carnuba and mag polish, ect... And finally silicon does have its place in some products.
 
wannafbody said:
i'll start a list of what i feel are some of the blatant myths posted here

1) silicone is BAD

2) polishes with "fillers" or oils are bad

3) NXT or any other product with any amount of specialized cleaners are a CLEANER WAX

4) OTC products are inferior to "specialized private branded products"



Anyone care to add some more? I'm posting this not to start a flame war but rather to say that its time to post accurate info not misleading info:)
Click to expand...



These are misinterpretations.



1) To say âہ“silicone is badâ€Â� is far too much of a blanket statement.



2) Polishes with fillers and/or oils are not âہ“badâ€Â� in it of themselves. They cater to a particular userâ€â„¢s needs.



They are just not recommended by those who wish to truly remove defects the first time and achieve the best finish possible ready for a LSP to masking the finish.(unless it is such poor or fragile condition that this is the only viable option) This is generally done by using polishes without fillers. Granted, it may take more time and more skill to do this.



The products with fillers cater to the needs of those that this isnâ€â„¢t important to or to get faster results. Weâ€â„¢re just discussing two different approaches: non-filling vs. filling.



âہ“Oilsâ€Â� are necessarily one in the same as fillers. This will vary by manufacturer.



3) I think the others who have already posted here have pretty much shown how indeed NXT is a cleaner wax. Thereâ€â„¢s nothing wrong with that. Itâ€â„¢s another product that caters to certain needs as not all needs here are the same.



4)The board as a whole does not believe, âہ“OTC products are inferior to â€Ëœspecialized private branded productsâ€â„¢Ãƒ¢Ã¢â€š¬Ã‚�. Yes, it is the opinion of many that certain specific, specialty products are better than their OTC counterparts but by no means is it viewed that no OTC product can compare to any and all similar boutique product. OTC products are enjoyed here and sit side by side with boutique products on many shelves.



wannafbody said:
myth- Wal-Mart microfibers scratch your cars surface-improperly using a product produces scratches ;)
Click to expand...



Nope, not scratches, micromarring. Yes, I greatly doubt they cause the kind of scratches youâ€â„¢d get if you decided to go for a drive through the jungle. Even Joe Average would be in an uproar over that. The paint defects caused by these towels that many have concluded vary greatly in quality, is stuff you can see under intense lighting conditions and cob webbing (at the worst).



How do you define improper usage?



wannafbody said:
i can make a point with humor or i can say something bluntly if you disagree with me that's fine- IMO Zaino is a good product(i've never posted that it wasn't) that gets a bad reputation because some of it's users tout it as the only MIRACLE PRODUCT that exists :(
Click to expand...





There are no miracle products. Understanding process, practicing process and a tiny bit of help from quality products are the ingredients needed to produce the closest thing to a miracle ;) .
 
everyone seems to be a little 'touchy' around here lately...maybe due to the stress the new rules are causing!!



If I never hear another thing about NXT it would be fine with me.



another thread gone bad,,, turned into boring chat about this product and that product...who cares.



what one calls a 'cleaner wax' another doesn't...let it go.



sorry I cant think of any (autopia) myths..but there was this girl with peanut butter......nevermind.
 
I know of far far too many myths to count. however, as it was said before, one man's myth is another man's religion. I'm not qualified to aruge other people's experience with products. If someone else wants to believe that they have 40 coats of AIO on their car, then I'm not going to disagree with them. :lol



BTW, I'm with Brad on the NXT thing. I've seen what it can do. No way a product with physical abrasives is going to be layerable. I've seen it clean oxidation. I don't really know why anyone wants to argue with it. If someone wants to "layer" a product that has physical or chemical abrasives in it then I say go for it. They'll figure it out eventually. ;)
 
Jngrbrdman said:
I know of far far too many myths to count. however, as it was said before, one man's myth is another man's religion. I'm not qualified to aruge other people's experience with products. If someone else wants to believe that they have 40 coats of AIO on their car, then I'm not going to disagree with them. :lol



BTW, I'm with Brad on the NXT thing. I've seen what it can do. No way a product with physical abrasives is going to be layerable. I've seen it clean oxidation. I don't really know why anyone wants to argue with it. If someone wants to "layer" a product that has physical or chemical abrasives in it then I say go for it. They'll figure it out eventually. ;)
Click to expand...



Jngrbrdman , add my vote to most of what you said. What's the saying? One mans ceiling is another mans floor?



One of my neighbors tried NXT, and he was showing it off to me (trying to impress me) and both of us were surprised how much oxidation it took off. I have no idea if it has abrasives in it, as I''ll have to defer to you and Brad on this, but I can't think of NXT as anything other than a cleaner wax. I have no idea as to it's durability, as I've never used anything but Meguiar's professional line, until I switched to Zaino.
 
Len_A said:
Jngrbrdman , add my vote to most of what you said. What's the saying? One mans ceiling is another mans floor?



One of my neighbors tried NXT, and he was showing it off to me (trying to impress me) and both of us were surprised how much oxidation it took off. I have no idea if it has abrasives in it, as I''ll have to defer to you and Brad on this, but I can't think of NXT as anything other than a cleaner wax. I have no idea as to it's durability, as I've never used anything but Meguiar's professional line, until I switched to Zaino.
Click to expand...



Umm... well it doesn't have "abrasives" in it AFAIK -- I think they're actually chemical-based cleaners. It would have a more "gritty" feel and dust alot more if it had abrasives.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top