Black '08 Jetta - First time!

[ctdivo]

Hello Autopians! Though I have been reading your forum for some time, this is my very first post. Every since I bought my first vehicle, I washed and waxed it religiously. However, my techniques certainly could have been better, and after reading all of your helpful information I feel much better about my detailing future. :nerd1:



Last April, I bought a black '08 Jetta. I know it's not fancy, but I love the car and I want it to look its best for as long as possible. I plan to keep it and drive it until the wheels fall off. Naturally, the previous owner did not take care of the paint as well as I would have, and I've been bothered by that since I've owned it for the better part of a year. I'm assuming it went through a lot of automatic car washes. The paint still shines and looks great when the sun is hiding, but when the sun is out the swirls drive me nuts. This is my daily driver, and I have put 20k miles on it since buying it in April. It currently has 62k on it.



I've done quite a bit of homework and research on this forum, and would like to try and get the swirls out. I'm planning on doing this sometime in the next few months. Right now I'm focusing on getting my wash technique right to prevent future swirling. The car is currently protected by a coat of NuFinish. This is the first time I have done anything beyond washing and waxing my paint. Here is my plan for the paint correction:



1. Wash with Meguiars Gold Class



2. Clay



3. Ultimate Compound with orange LC pad (6.5") using porter cable 7424XP



4. Ultimate Polish with white LC pad (6.5")



5. Blackfire Wet Diamond with gray LC pad (6.5")



6. Do I need to use anything else after BFWD?



My main concerns are getting the swirls out with damaging anything, and protecting the paint against the elements. This is my daily driver, and I don't have a garage to put it in. I also live in Alabama (and spend a lot of time in Florida), so it sees a lot of sun. Please let me know what you think about my system and products. Naturally I have a lot of questions, so please bear with me!



1. I had read before that I need to clean the pads often while applying the UC and UP. If this is necessary, how do I do that effectively while working on the car?



2. I know I need to buff each section with a microfiber towel after using UC or UP, but is there anything else I need to do between products? Can I just wipe them off, and then move to the next product?



3. I will be working outside in natural light. I know this is a time consuming process, and it's likely that I will need a couple of days to complete the project. Should I rewash the car on the second day?



4. Should I get 4" pads? If so, which ones, they seem to be totally different from the 6.5" pads.



5. How do you guys handle curves on cars while working? This seems tricky to me.



6. Do you do the small and tricky areas by hand? What type of applicators do you use? are the meguiars foam circle things the ideal thing to use?



7. This car obviously has deeper scratches, will the BFWD do a decent job of covering them, or at least not accentuating them?



I know this is extremely long winded, and I probably still have more questions. When I start on this project, I will definitely post my pictures and results. I appreciate any comments and advice you can give me!

 

[GeeReg]

Welcome to Autopia.



Based on my experience with my 2008 black Jetta, you will definitely want the 4" pads. I started withe the 6.5" and wasn't making a lot of progress (Orange/Ultimate Compound). I never got to correct the whole car, but I plan on it this spring and will be trying out a microfiber system.



Others will be by to answer your other questions, I just thought I would give you some feedback from the same car. Good luck!

 

[ctdivo]

Welcome to Autopia.



Based on my experience with my 2008 black Jetta, you will definitely want the 4" pads. I started withe the 6.5" and wasn't making a lot of progress (Orange/Ultimate Compound). I never got to correct the whole car, but I plan on it this spring and will be trying out a microfiber system.



Others will be by to answer your other questions, I just thought I would give you some feedback from the same car. Good luck!

Thanks for the tip! Did you find the orange/ultimate compound combo to work well for you despite the pad being too big?

 

[GeeReg]

Yes, it took a few passes but I was also very new to machine polishing. I'm not sure how much correction you need, but mine was what I'd consider mild-moderate swirling, based on what I've seen here. I don't think you'd want anything more aggressive while just starting out, but you may want to try the MF system as they're supposed to work faster while being user friendly (at least from what I've read on the Meg's system).

 

[ctdivo]

Yes, it took a few passes but I was also very new to machine polishing. I'm not sure how much correction you need, but mine was what I'd consider mild-moderate swirling, based on what I've seen here. I don't think you'd want anything more aggressive while just starting out, but you may want to try the MF system as they're supposed to work faster while being user friendly (at least from what I've read on the Meg's system).

What exactly is the microfiber system? I'm not really familiar with it.

 

[Accumulator]

... Here is my plan for the paint correction:



1. Wash with Meguiars Gold Class



2. Clay



3. Ultimate Compound with orange LC pad (6.5") using porter cable 7424XP

Do you already have the PC XP?



I'd probably use MF pads with it instead. MF pads are "microfiber pads" and they cut a lot better than orange foam.

4. Ultimate Polish with white LC pad (6.5")

OK, but I can't help but wonder if the PC XP will be able to do good work with those big pads :nixweiss

5. Blackfire Wet Diamond with gray LC pad (6.5")

I'd rather use something longer-lasting that does more filling. And/or something that's easy to use on exterior trim so you don't have to use something else for stuff like exterior black plastic. Collinite 845 Insulator Wax comes to mind. Or, use a wax like Collinite 476S or 915, either of which will last/protect/look great, but with those you need to avoid letting it dry on trim.

6. Do I need to use anything else after BFWD?

Don't get caught up in the multiple LSP/"topper" approach. Just use something good and reapply it frequently. And concentrate on your wash technique so it *stays* nice longer.

My main concerns are getting the swirls out with damaging anything, and protecting the paint against the elements. This is my daily driver, and I don't have a garage to put it in.

Work small areas and inspect *inspect* **INSPECT** your work so you don't go too far down the wrong path is something goes haywire. And stick with a "durability" LSP that's good against environmental concerns (e.g., that Collinite).

1. I had read before that I need to clean the pads often while applying the UC and UP. If this is necessary, how do I do that effectively while working on the car?

Yes, this is critical. The non-diminishing abrasives in your choice of products need to be cleaned out of the pads frequently, along with cut-off clear. I like using an air compressor to blow the pads clean, but in the absence of that you can use towels with a spritz of a "clean" QD such as M34. Washing the pads out is effective but problematic as you need them *DRY* lest you have issues.



One solution is to use a lot of pads so you can switch to a clean one as needed.

2. I know I need to buff each section with a microfiber towel after using UC or UP, but is there anything else I need to do between products? Can I just wipe them off, and then move to the next product?

It's often (usually ) a good idea to clean the paint off both to remove any remaining residue/oils and to get a "clear look" at your progress. Many people use IPA (rubbing alcohol) but I prefer PrepWash from Top of the Line.

3. I will be working outside in natural light. I know this is a time consuming process, and it's likely that I will need a couple of days to complete the project. Should I rewash the car on the second day?

Washing it would get it clean, but watch you don't mar it in the process. Other ideas include washing it with ONR or even just QDing it (but the same caveat applies...watch you don't induce new scratches).



What about doing it panel-by-panel, polishing/LSPing a small section after each of a series of regularly scheduled washes?

4. Should I get 4" pads? If so, which ones, they seem to be totally different from the 6.5" pads.

I've never used the XP model, and I hear different/conflicting opinions about how well it works. 4" pads are generally much more *effective* for correction, but how *efficient* they are can be hard to say....they do the work (and sometimes they're needed to get it done at all), but they work smaller areas.

5. How do you guys handle curves on cars while working? This seems tricky to me.

It's generally less of an issue than you'd expect. You can force the pads into tight spots, use the outer edge of the pad, and/or otherwise "do goofy/scary stuff" without much worry as long as you don't go nutty-aggressive about it.

6. Do you do the small and tricky areas by hand? What type of applicators do you use? are the meguiars foam circle things the ideal thing to use?

Either by hand or with the "goofy" approach mentioned previously. You can use cotton towels or cut-up orange foam pads (or maybe MF cutting pads) for the aggressive work and then switch to the more gentle (conventional) MF or foam. The foam "wax applicator" pads will work but note that by hand everything takes a *LONG* time, so don't switch to gentle stuff too soon or it'll take forever.



Note that I've spend an entire afternoon(!) removing fingernail scratches from behind Audi door handles. By hand, it just takes a looong time. [Shoot], it takes a long time by machine too!

7. This car obviously has deeper scratches, will the BFWD do a decent job of covering them, or at least not accentuating them?

I dunno...I'd expect better concealing from something like a Paste wax, and whatever prodcut you use before the wax can make a diff too. But don't expect miracles, just avoid LSPs that, as you're rightfully concerned, accentuate flaws. Whether the BFWD does or not I can't say (never used it).



Oh, and Welcome to Autopia!



Oh#2, please forgive any typos in the above, I'm keying this in rather fast

 

[ctdivo]

Wow, thank you for all the advice, Accumulator! Of course with more answers comes more questions....



To answer your question, I actually don't own a DA yet. The PC XP seems to be what everyone starts with, so I just figured I'd go with that one. I'm open to any suggestions, if I should be using something else. I am not looking to spend a fortune on a DA though haha.



If I were to use the meguiars MF pads, would I still use the ultimate compound or instead use the DA correction compound they sell with the kit? Also, there seem to be only two pads - cutting and finishing. After using the MF cutting pad, could I go straight to finishing with an LSP like the Collinite you suggested? If I need a polishing step in between, should I go with some kind of foam pad for that?



I'm having a little difficulty finding the PrepWash product, do you have a link to it?



Blah, sorry for all the extra questions....this is fun though! haha

 

[Accumulator]

Wow, thank you for all the advice, Accumulator! Of course with more answers comes more questions....



To answer your question, I actually don't own a DA yet. The PC XP seems to be what everyone starts with, so I just figured I'd go with that one. I'm open to any suggestions, if I should be using something else. I am not looking to spend a fortune on a DA though haha...

I myself would go with the Griot's Garage 6" Random Orbital. Period. Hands-down. Seriously. For one thing, a pal of mine had the spindle on an XP break, and he was lucky it didn't gouge the panel. For another, the Griot's has a lifetime warranty. I have the Griot's, and it really is all that (I wasn't expecting it to be all that special, but I was wrong).

If I were to use the meguiars MF pads, would I still use the ultimate compound or instead use the DA correction compound they sell with the kit?

I've only used the MF *cutting* pad, which worked great on hard clear. I used it with Uno, the Meguiar's stuff oughta work about the same.

Also, there seem to be only two pads - cutting and finishing. After using the MF cutting pad, could I go straight to finishing with an LSP like the Collinite you suggested? If I need a polishing step in between, should I go with some kind of foam pad for that?

I've heard differing things about how different the two MF pads are, so I just don't know what to tell you on that score. I *would* plan on using something afer the cutting/major correction step though. Eh, I just used foam (with 1Z High Gloss) after that MF cutting/Uno combo and I found that approach really nice (this was on an Audi, probably similar to your VW). I'm not trying to push the Uno, much less the 1z (just something I happen to *really* like), but rather am saying that different products will do the same basic job. l Just pick something that's known to be OK (Meguiar's, Uno for good correction on hard clear; some popular finishing polish aftewards).

I'm having a little difficulty finding the PrepWash product, do you have a link to it?

See if this link works: Silicone & Wax Remover

Blah, sorry for all the extra questions....this is fun though! haha

No worries, I find this exchange fun too! But I'll be going offline soon (fair warning if you don't get more responses out of me today ).

 

[pwaug]

Following Accumulator's and others advice I went with the GG6 and immediately purchased a 5" backing plate to use 5.5" pads--which are recommended by most everyone over the 6.5". In your first order of pads you can save enough $$ on the smaller pads to pay for the backing plate. A Six pack of 5.5" flat pads are $35 -- a six pack of 6.5" are $50. If you're not in a hurry watch Amazon for Gold Box deals on the GG6--sometimes they have the unit itself on sale for $80 or a $199 kit for $99 and as Acc mentioned it is the most powerful of the conventional DAs and has a lifetime warranty.

 

[ctdivo]

Following Accumulator's and others advice I went with the GG6 and immediately purchased a 5" backing plate to use 5.5" pads--which are recommended by most everyone over the 6.5". In your first order of pads you can save enough $$ on the smaller pads to pay for the backing plate. A Six pack of 5.5" flat pads are $35 -- a six pack of 6.5" are $50. If you're not in a hurry watch Amazon for Gold Box deals on the GG6--sometimes they have the unit itself on sale for $80 or a $199 kit for $99 and as Acc mentioned it is the most powerful of the conventional DAs and has a lifetime warranty.

Wow that would be a great deal. I'll have to look out for it. It goes on sale pretty often?

 

[ctdivo]

On another note, I've been doing some looking around regarding the Meguiars MF Correction system, and I'm considering trying the whole system together like they recommend. I know it's still relatively new, but I'd love to hear some opinions on using the whole kit together.

 

[pwaug]

Wow that would be a great deal. I'll have to look out for it. It goes on sale pretty often?

The last time the Kit was on sale was Cyber Monday and the GG6 by itself was a couple of weeks later. I haven't seen it on sale since then so it may be do up soon--you have to be vigilant though as it will come up with a limited number of units for sale--they usually go in 3 or 4 hours.



I'm new to Machine Polishing myself, but have been detailing my cars forever but seriosly for the past 10 years. I'm a little reluctant to give advice regarding machine polishing, but you mentioned that you didn't want to spend too much. With that in mind and to shorten the learning curve--why not consider HD UNO as a polish? You purchase one product to Cut, Polish and Finish--the aggressiveness of UNO is dictated by pad, DA speed, pressure and arm speed. So you eliminate the variable of learning more than one product not to mention the saved $$$. You can get a 16 OZ bottle of UNO for $18 including a free bottle of POXY sealant. HD Uno HD Poxy Professional Sizes To keep things simple you use Orange, Green and Red pads and after your final polish you can apply UNO without an IPA wipe down. I've applied a coat of DG 105 to my wife's car and a coat of POXY to mine using the GG DA just to get practice handling the machine. Haven't done a complete polish yet on my Passat Wagon (hard clear), but did do a test spot--UNO with a Buff & Shine Orange pad did just fine and finished down well enough that I think I could go right to applying POXY. There is plenty of info above in the 3D thread and on the 3D website there are videos. Just a thought!!! Perhaps others will coment on my suggestion.

 

[Accumulator]

ctdivo- While I understand the appeal of an integrated-system approach, I've just hardly ever gone that route. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything...but consider that the polish/LSP part of the Meguiar's system is a combo product that is generally considered only so-so as a LSP.



And yeah, the Uno is one *very* versatile product!



On the pad size for the GG 6", and noting that I've always been a *BIG* proponent of sing smaller pads on RO/DA polishers, much to my surprise that wasn't really necessary with the Griot's. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not absolutely mandatory the way it is with lesser machines.

 

[ctdivo]

ctdivo- While I understand the appeal of an integrated-system approach, I've just hardly ever gone that route. Not saying it's a bad idea or anything...but consider that the polish/LSP part of the Meguiar's system is a combo product that is generally considered only so-so as a LSP.



And yeah, the Uno is one *very* versatile product!



On the pad size for the GG 6", and noting that I've always been a *BIG* proponent of sing smaller pads on RO/DA polishers, much to my surprise that wasn't really necessary with the Griot's. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it's not absolutely mandatory the way it is with lesser machines.

Gotcha....I did have some doubt myself on using the included LSP. So lets say I used the MF pad with the UNO. I could then, as pwaug suggested use the UNO with a foam pad which would (hopefully) finish nicely?





Then I would follow up with Collinite or perhaps the UNO Poxy? pwaug, which pad did you use to apply the poxy?



Another note on the GG6 - which 5" backing plate is recommended? Can i use the same plate for the 5.5" pads and the MF pads from meguiars?

 

[pwaug]

Used a red pad to apply the POXY. If you're going the MF pad route why not take a look at the Optimum MF pads. You don't have to buy a kit so you can choose whatever polish you like-they seem to be getting great reviews. Since I was going with Buff & Shine pads I just bought their 5" backing plate. I don't know if any 5" BP will work with the MF pads, perhaps others will chime in. Since I'm new at machine polishing I decided to go with conventional flat foam pads, then if I find I need more aggressive pads move to the MF after I have more experience.

 

[Accumulator]

ctdivo- I can't really help with which pads to use for finishing with Uno, I haven't used it that much.



I'm not sure which plate will work best with the Meguiar's MF pads. I know that sounds goofy, but I have a pile of backing plates in the roughly 6-6.5" range and I just rooted around until I found the one I liked best :nixweiss But I think you want to watch that you don't use a plate that's too small; I hear the MF pads work best when there's minimal overhang from the plate.

 

[ctdivo]

ctdivo- I can't really help with which pads to use for finishing with Uno, I haven't used it that much.



I'm not sure which plate will work best with the Meguiar's MF pads. I know that sounds goofy, but I have a pile of backing plates in the roughly 6-6.5" range and I just rooted around until I found the one I liked best :nixweiss But I think you want to watch that you don't use a plate that's too small; I hear the MF pads work best when there's minimal overhang from the plate.

Cool, I think what I'll do is buy the meguiars backing plate made for the MF pads and then buy appropriately sized foam pads to go with it. This is going to be a fun project (providing I can do a good job, ha).

 

[ctdivo]

Ok, so I finally placed an order - here's what I got



GG 6"

backing plate and 5.5" pads from 3D: Orange, Green, & Red

HD Uno *& Poxy



I'm gonna try the 3D foam pads with the Uno and see if I need to move up to microfiber. If I do, then I'll figure that out.



As soon as I get going I'll post some pics. Thank you for all the help!

 

[Accumulator]

ctdivo- One last bit of advice...do test areas and inspect inspect inspect in all kinds of lighting before you go on and do the whole car. If (and don't get all worried or anything) something goes haywire you want to catch it before it becomes a widespread problem.



People sometimes do a whole car, spending hours and hours until there's no more time left, and then pull it out into the sun the next day only to find something went wrong and they have a huge mess on their hands.

 

[ctdivo]

ctdivo- One last bit of advice...do test areas and inspect inspect inspect in all kinds of lighting before you go on and do the whole car. If (and don't get all worried or anything) something goes haywire you want to catch it before it becomes a widespread problem.



People sometimes do a whole car, spending hours and hours until there's no more time left, and then pull it out into the sun the next day only to find something went wrong and they have a huge mess on their hands.

Thanks! I think I'm going to start with the top of the trunk since it's the most heavily scratched area from the previous owner (presumably from setting a bunch of things on it). I'm going to make sure I've got a bright sunny day for the test spot. If I check the paint from a bunch of different angles in direct sunlight will I be okay?