BHB from Autogeek & ONR frozen

F

forever

New member
I just purchased an BHB from autogeek.net because I was told that using a BHB is better than using a MF mit with ONR. Well, It failed the CD test. It scratched it very lightly. Should I send it back? If "Yes", What should I use?



Boars Hair Brush Link



I also purchased ONR, when i received the package it was frozen solid. I have warmed it up and turned it back into liquid. Will it hurt anything that it was frozen? Will it change the chemicals?



CDScratch.jpg
 
The ONR will be fine. I think a boars hair brush has to be wet in order for it not to mar. I know accumulator uses one in his no marring wash regimen.
 
forever- Welcome to Autopia!



*IMO* BHBs aren't all that compatible with ONR-type washes. I've used BHBs with ONR a few times on the body of vehicles, and numerous times on wheels, and it just seemed like the wrong wash medium for that approach. OK for wheels on beaters (primarily because I only need one since the BHB will rinse clean, albeit with considerable effort) but not OK for washing the vehicle proper. Even on the wheels, I do a follow-up with a MF.



Used with ONR, the bristles seemed prone to cluming together (there's not enough liguid for the bristles to "float apart" freely), resulting in gaps between the clumps of bristles that left residual dirt; applying more pressure would correct that, but at the risk of marring. The more continuous surface of a MF or sheepskin allows more complete contact with the surface being cleaned than the clumps of bristles.



The minimal pressure required to use a BHB properly was often insufficient to result in dirt being cleaned off the vehcile and transferred to the brush (you do *NOT* want to apply enough pressure to bend the bristles of the brush over), I had to go over and over the same area numerous times and stopping to rinse out the BHB between each pass would've taken forever. OK for certain wheels (just go over them again and again, or even apply more pressure and hope there's no severe marring), not OK for the body of a car.



IMO the primary benefits of BHBs are the way they behave when used with *LOTS* of wash solution, in a "flooding" type of situation where dirt is dislodged and flushed away. This works well because the BHBs rinse clean *while* the washing is going on, whereas ONR works because the (hopefully encapsulated) dirt transfers to the wash medium, and sticks to it until rinsed out. The way I use BHBs, there's none of that sticking; my rinse water stays nice and clean no matter how dirty the vehicle is.



While I'm not much of an ONR user, when I *do* use it, it's with MFs or sheepskin. The resident ONR expert here is proably Scottwax, and IIRC he uses MF-covered sponges.



As for the CD-test (and I'm glad to hear you did that before using it on your vehicle!), did you test it dry or wet with wash solution? While SuperBee364 has tested his Montana brand BHBs dry (and they passed), I always test BHBs *wet* because of the way they soften up so much once they've been soaked in liquid for a while.



No idea about the frozen ONR, but I'd be surprised if it was damaged.
 
Thanks for the detailed post.





I used the BHB right when I opened the box, no soaking. I will let it soak and I will try using it on another CD. I understand the "gaps" you're describing, I will try it out and see what I can come up with. What MF mit would you suggest Accumulator?
 
Accumulator said:
forever- Welcome to Autopia!



*IMO* BHBs aren't all that compatible with ONR-type washes. I've used BHBs with ONR a few times on the body of vehicles, and numerous times on wheels, and it just seemed like the wrong wash medium for that approach. OK for wheels on beaters (primarily because I only need one since the BHB will rinse clean, albeit with considerable effort) but not OK for washing the vehicle proper. Even on the wheels, I do a follow-up with a MF.



Used with ONR, the bristles seemed prone to cluming together (there's not enough liguid for the bristles to "float apart" freely), resulting in gaps between the clumps of bristles that left residual dirt; applying more pressure would correct that, but at the risk of marring. The more continuous surface of a MF or sheepskin allows more complete contact with the surface being cleaned than the clumps of bristles.



The minimal pressure required to use a BHB properly was often insufficient to result in dirt being cleaned off the vehcile and transferred to the brush (you do *NOT* want to apply enough pressure to bend the bristles of the brush over), I had to go over and over the same area numerous times and stopping to rinse out the BHB between each pass would've taken forever. OK for certain wheels (just go over them again and again, or even apply more pressure and hope there's no severe marring), not OK for the body of a car.



IMO the primary benefits of BHBs are the way they behave when used with *LOTS* of wash solution, in a "flooding" type of situation where dirt is dislodged and flushed away. This works well because the BHBs rinse clean *while* the washing is going on, whereas ONR works because the (hopefully encapsulated) dirt transfers to the wash medium, and sticks to it until rinsed out. The way I use BHBs, there's none of that sticking; my rinse water stays nice and clean no matter how dirty the vehicle is.



While I'm not much of an ONR user, when I *do* use it, it's with MFs or sheepskin. The resident ONR expert here is proably Scottwax, and IIRC he uses MF-covered sponges.



As for the CD-test (and I'm glad to hear you did that before using it on your vehicle!), did you test it dry or wet with wash solution? While SuperBee364 has tested his Montana brand BHBs dry (and they passed), I always test BHBs *wet* because of the way they soften up so much once they've been soaked in liquid for a while.



No idea about the frozen ONR, but I'd be surprised if it was damaged.
Click to expand...



Your a madman with those boar hair's. lol When I see this thread title I knew you would have posted.!!! lol
 
I know someone already covered it, but I just wanted to let you know the ONR is fine. It has been subjected to freeze/thaw tests in the Optimum lab and came out fine.
 
forever said:
Thanks for the detailed post.





I used the BHB right when I opened the box, no soaking. I will let it soak and I will try using it on another CD. I understand the "gaps" you're describing, I will try it out and see what I can come up with. What MF mit would you suggest Accumulator?
Click to expand...



Before I forget, in case you haven't checked out my "BHB Comparison" thread (search on my user-name, I don't start all that many threads so it oughta be easy to find), be sure to inspect the BHB for any excess adhesive, from where they glue the bristles to the handle. Any excess that's on the base of the bristles will eventually cause problems; as the bristles flex the glue will crack and come loose, and that glue can *really* scratch paint. Some of the otherwise-nicest BHBs I've ever seen had this problem, so back they went for replacement/refund.



On the mitt/whatever for ONR, I'm really not the best guy to ask as others have both more *and better* experience with ONR than yours truly; I can't use it without instilling some degree of marring now and then, so I don't use it all that much.



I'm still trying to find MF mitts that're as nice as my old blue ones (from microfibertech.com? Eh, I just can't remember) so I'm not sure what you should look into. I'd want *very* plush ones and most importantly, plenty of them. Whatever you use with ONR, it'll get dirty and IME it won't really rinse clean very well. So I'd have quite a few on hand so you can switch to a clean one and avoid rubbing something dirty against your paint.



When I do ONR the beater-Audi, instead of mitts I often use ultra-super-duper-plush MF towels like the lint-prone Shamrocks. I fold them over so I have a thick handful and I make sure it's really *WET*, as in soaking, with ONR. And I pretreat with a spray of ONR too.



But since Scottwax uses MF-covered sponges (IIRC, the ones that look like a dog bone, forget where he buys 'em) and you'd probably be better off emulating him when it comes to using ONR. And along those lines, somewhere there's a thread all about how he does ONR washes, and I'd sure check that out if you're gonna use the stuff.
 
Hey Forever, IMO, the best hing to use ONR with is those thick Eurow MF towels.

Yeah, my Montana Brush BHB does pass the CD test dry, it is an extremely gentle wash media. So gentle that it often fails to remove dirt! A BHB that is *that* gentle can be a bit of a pain to use on stubborn dirt. As Accumulator mentioned, it's fine as long as it passes the test after being soaked.



As Chris (IntegrityDetail) said, the ONR will be fine after being frozen. Mine gets frozen/thawed on a regular basis. While freezing is a real concern for many detailing chemicals, it doesn't faze ONR at all.
 
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