BF Sealant/Midnight Sun

I

imported_doug

New member
On the advice of a friend, I tried 3M Dark Finish Swirl Mark Remover again. I had tried some, but had been disappointed in the past. (I had only tried it on a small area, by hand, with a foam pad. This time, I followed his advice (and the instructions) - used the orbital with a foam pad, used moderate to heavy pressure until the compound started to dry out, then lighter and lighter pressure until there was almost no residue. This worked MUCH better.



I believe that this product (and I know there are others) has "diminishing abrasives" where the abrasive material gets finer and finer. If you do it by hand, the abrasives just don't break down very fast so you're left with the scractches from the material at its coarsest. But with the technique above, it gets finer and finer, successively polishing out the scratches is just left. Pretty clever.



I have an email out to the Meguiars' guy to see which of their products that I have:



Body Shop Dual Action Cleaner/Polish

Body Shop Hand Polish

Medallion Premium Paint Cleaner

#9 Swirl Mark Remover

#7 Show Car Glaze



have diminishing abrasives, where this technique might really help.



Comments?
 
to 3M Finesse-it? I bought a bottle of this to do my wife's car with (probably next spring, but who knows.) I was thinking about getting an orbital to do it with after practicing on a beater or two first. My friends have plenty of them, trust me.
 
A orbital will not bring a neglected car back up to Autopian standards. Now a Porter Cable is the orbital/DA polisher of choice. It makes a good finish better, but is pure heck bringing back a neglected car. I spent a few hours (3 hours) with the PC, a foam cutting pad and 3M Finesse It II to try to bring back a neglected toyota. Sure it looked better, but it was not that great. I just gave up and used Klasse AIO and SG.

If you are up for it, a rotary will being back neglected paints much faster and more effective than an orbital or DA. I am currently looking into trying out a rotary, but its getting colder and colder, so I might have to wait until next Spring.

Now, with patience, practice, and lots of reading of power buffing techniques and some beater cars, a rotary may be your best bet. www.autoint.com offers the PrepExcellence school to teach about the basics of auto detailing.


Just my 2 cents,

Jason
:up :) :cool:
 
I was considering doing it by hand but thought that it would be nice to make it look great. Rotary = me screwing up the car. Orbital = me hopefully not screwing up the car.
 
Cybercowboy - I spoke at some length today with a guy who restores and paints classic cars professionally, and he raved about Finesse-it white. Off I go, $32 later, with some of the stuff. I tried it by hand, I tried it with the orbital, diminishing pressure and all - and found it to leave a considerable haze over the finish.

Out came Meguiar's swirl mark remover, show car glaze and wax to get over it. I'm not too pleased with Finesse-it. I tell ya though, there is nothing like a dark garage and 1000w of overhead halogens to show you EVERYTHING!

The good news is that I succeeded in significantly reducing the swirls and water spot marks that had crept onto my hood - using Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by the above recipe.

I also spoke via email with the Meguiar's rep again today. There is a new product from them called Swirl Mark Remover 2.0 that he says is outstanding. It was developed in conjunction with BMW, who uses Meguiar's stuff at the factory to clean up newly painted cars. I'm trying to get some - haven't found any yet.

If you're interested, lots of pics of my car at http://996tt.com/greg

Jasonc8301 - I completely agree - you can get very good, but NOT perfect results with an orbital - it doesn't create enough heat. On the other hand, a rotary can burn through your paint in the blink of an eye. I'd rather learn THAT technique on someone elses' car!! :)
 
Nice reviews carguy. Please tell me where I can purchase some of that 2.0 stuff as well, and get that MF towel in the size that is sufficent. So basically your saying as BLOT, to drop the towel on the paint and pick it straight up again then use the other MF towel to go back over it, this time rubbing it. I hope I can restore the paint to where it doesn't show the scratches at all anymore.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >

<em class='bbc'>Originally posted by carguy [/i]
<strong class='bbc'>Cybercowboy - I spoke at some length today with a guy who restores and paints classic cars professionally, and he raved about Finesse-it white. Off I go, $32 later, with some of the stuff. I tried it by hand, I tried it with the orbital, diminishing pressure and all - and found it to leave a considerable haze over the finish.

Out came Meguiar's swirl mark remover, show car glaze and wax to get over it. I'm not too pleased with Finesse-it. I tell ya though, there is nothing like a dark garage and 1000w of overhead halogens to show you EVERYTHING!

The good news is that I succeeded in significantly reducing the swirls and water spot marks that had crept onto my hood - using Dual Action Cleaner Polish followed by the above recipe.

I also spoke via email with the Meguiar's rep again today. There is a new product from them called Swirl Mark Remover 2.0 that he says is outstanding. It was developed in conjunction with BMW, who uses Meguiar's stuff at the factory to clean up newly painted cars. I'm trying to get some - haven't found any yet.

If you're interested, lots of pics of my car at http://996tt.com/greg

Jasonc8301 - I completely agree - you can get very good, but NOT perfect results with an orbital - it doesn't create enough heat. On the other hand, a rotary can burn through your paint in the blink of an eye. I'd rather learn THAT technique on someone elses' car!! :) [/b]</blockquote>
 
RussMax - yep - you want whatever rubbing you do to have maximum effect with minimum strokes. The MF towels are the best at this, whether buffing off wax or polish residue, or drying. The use of the blotting simple allows you to do the whole car with a single MF towel.



For all my buffing and quick-detailing I use Meguiar's Ultimate Wipes. They work. I know there are other brands, some are good some are not, but I'm happy with these. I bought a case. They measure about 12" by 12" - fold them in 1/4's.



For drying I bought a larger MF towel specifically marketed for drying - sorry, don't remember the brand. It is probably 18" x 24" and a little thicker.



I got my Swirl Remover 2.0 from a commercial automotive paint supply house (San Carlos Paint on Industrial in San Carlos, CA.) Where are you located? If you're nearby I'd be happy to help you...
 
Hey Jason, what ever happened with Ron K. and his offer to help you out with some classes or beginner training. Was it for rotary buffers? Laters.
 
I'd like to do two coats of Wet Diamond sealant followed by two coats of Midnight Sun carnauba paste. What is the ideal wait time between each step??
 
I believe the minimum wait between each coat is 8 hours. I usually put a coat of BFWD (or any other sealant)on in the morning and then in the evening and then repeat the procedure with Midnight Sun (or any other wax) the next day.

Check out the PAC store. They have the procedure down for what you are planning. They call it "Wet Ice over Fire.:)
 
I've seen people post here that they've laid down two or three coats of sealant and then followed it up with wax... I've always wondered about that. Maybe that's just for coverage?

I've had the best luck with BFWD giving it plenty of time to cure... 8 hours minimum and 12 hours even better, with 18 to 24 hours being the best.
Same goes for the wax.

I think there's a way to "flash" cure BFWD with cold water? Not sure...
 
Termigator said:
I believe the minimum wait between each coat is 8 hours. I usually put a coat of BFWD (or any other sealant)on in the morning and then in the evening and then repeat the procedure with Midnight Sun (or any other wax) the next day.

Check out the PAC store. They have the procedure down for what you are planning. They call it "Wet Ice over Fire.:)
Click to expand...

You're right... it's 8 hours, just read the instructions, doh!:)

Thanks for reminding me to do that Termigator!:wizard:
 
dschribs said:
I'd like to do two coats of Wet Diamond sealant followed by two coats of Midnight Sun carnauba paste. What is the ideal wait time between each step??
Click to expand...

BFWD actually has a really fast cure time by sealant standards. The majority of the curing takes place quickly as five minutes after wipe-off because it is made with a catalyzer. Super humid climates or super cold temps are going lengthen the time it takes the polymers to fully bond.

While the vast majority of the product is fully linked (in most climates) very quickly it does take some time for the remaining product to fully cure.

However if you do not have that much time wait between coats I wouldn't worry too much since so much of the bonding happens rapidly the net effect would likely be nil.



Roadrunner said:
I've seen people post here that they've laid down two or three coats of sealant and then followed it up with wax... I've always wondered about that. Maybe that's just for coverage?

I've had the best luck with BFWD giving it plenty of time to cure... 8 hours minimum and 12 hours even better, with 18 to 24 hours being the best.
Same goes for the wax.

I think there's a way to "flash" cure BFWD with cold water? Not sure...
Click to expand...

The main reason to apply two to three coats of a sealant (or wax for that matter) is to ensure that the coverage is even and that the paint is fully saturated with an even coating of product. BFWD, arguably lays down a very even coating better then anything else, which is why so little goes so far. The product begins to adhere to the paint almost instantly (which is why it can be buffed off wet) and the excess product is pushed to the bare spot.

This gives BFWD that unique, crystal gloss look with just one coat. That one coat is very even. A second coat may cover some light spots of coverage or ensure so areas are a little more even, and in my eyes is worth it if you have the time. It may also increase the film thickness slightly. If you really wanted to push for the additional % you could try a third coat, although I really think you would be wasting your time past that. (At best save the third coat for a month down the road to replenish any lost product).

BF Midnight Sun should also be given a brief time between coats as it does feature an active bonding polymer for best results.
 
th0001 said:

BFWD actually has a really fast cure time by sealant standards. The majority of the curing takes place quickly as five minutes after wipe-off because it is made with a catalyzer. Super humid climates or super cold temps are going lengthen the time it takes the polymers to fully bond.

While the vast majority of the product is fully linked (in most climates) very quickly it does take some time for the remaining product to fully cure.

However if you do not have that much time wait between coats I wouldn't worry too much since so much of the bonding happens rapidly the net effect would likely be nil.





The main reason to apply two to three coats of a sealant (or wax for that matter) is to ensure that the coverage is even and that the paint is fully saturated with an even coating of product. BFWD, arguably lays down a very even coating better then anything else, which is why so little goes so far. The product begins to adhere to the paint almost instantly (which is why it can be buffed off wet) and the excess product is pushed to the bare spot.

This gives BFWD that unique, crystal gloss look with just one coat. That one coat is very even. A second coat may cover some light spots of coverage or ensure so areas are a little more even, and in my eyes is worth it if you have the time. It may also increase the film thickness slightly. If you really wanted to push for the additional % you could try a third coat, although I really think you would be wasting your time past that. (At best save the third coat for a month down the road to replenish any lost product).

BF Midnight Sun should also be given a brief time between coats as it does feature an active bonding polymer for best results.
Click to expand...

I was hoping you'd weigh in here on this... thanks Todd!:thumbup: Excellent information as usual.:)
 
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