Best (or Your) Bug and Tar remover?

[Bullitt]

I like SCG because you can literally see the bugs evaporating after application, and usually even caked on bugs fall right off. The only downside is if you detail for a living, especially with the bugs we have down here, it can get expensive for this to be your go-to product because one bottle doesn't get you very far if the front's covered in bugs. Mostly I use Stoner's for clients, and SCG for my rides.

 

[duke4ever]

Doesn't SCG come in 2 liter bottle for $20? 4 liters for $40 is really like the price of say, a pricey QD... you might figure you'd use a strong bug remover less often than QD? My economics could still be off...

 

[PerroneFord]

Doesn't SCG come in 2 liter bottle for $20? 4 liters for $40 is really like the price of say, a pricey QD... you might figure you'd use a strong bug remover less often than QD? My economics could still be off...

Yea, and it works darn near the same cut 3:1. And its easier to spray. Pretty good economics if you ask me. Makes a nice car wash booster in the foamer/hose end sprayer too. That is if you plan on stripping the protection.

 

[imported_FJF]

See the one in the white metal can? That's what you want. Put a little of it on a cloth/applicator pad and goto town.

I use this, too. A drop or two on a utility MF, dab the dead bug and let it sit for a few seconds, then wipe it off. I find that having a very slick LSP helps a lot. I've tried other products and this stuff works best for me.

 

[David Fermani]

No worse than a mild polishing compound. It works marvelously well, and it has lots of solvents. I really wouldn't use anything else.

Yum - sounds like the perfect recipe to scratch your finish and stripe your LSP. Nothing like turning a simple bug removal into a full blown paint correction. :nervous2:

 

[imported_FJF]

Yum - sounds like the perfect recipe to scratch your finish and stripe your LSP. Nothing like turning a simple bug removal into a full blown paint correction. :nervous2:

Now you have me concerned. As mentioned, I use that product. What do you suggest as an alternative?

 

[DM101]

Scg ???????????????????

 

[David Fermani]

Now you have me concerned. As mentioned, I use that product. What do you suggest as an alternative?

Here's my list of stages I do bug removals in to preserve LSP. The 1st is least agressive & then each step will graduate onto more agressive measures:



1st-

-rinse loose dirt from front end (preferably via powerwasher @ 1500 psi)

-hand wash with car wash soap of choice

-place soapy soaking wet bath towel over bugs - (20-30 minutes will usually loosen everything)

-hand wash again / re-powerwash



2nd-

If that doesn't work:

-same as #1 (above) plus claying with light duty clay



3rd-

-yellow bug sponge via car wash soap

(this will decrease LSP on surface w/o micromarring, but shouldn't totally remove it)



4th-

-yellow bug sponge via APC cleaner

(this will remove LSP w/o micromarring)



5th-(extreme)

fine grit sanding to level out gouged edges of paint from bugs breaking surface

 

[GoudyL]

Dave, I dunno what your so worried about.



The clearcoat is so much harder than any bug guts attached to it, thus any mild abrasives will preferentially chew up the softer filth vs the clearcoat.



The old style bug and tar remover is a superb product. Perhaps it will remove the LSP from the surface (along with the bugs and tar), but so what? That is what spray wax is for.

 

[jb1]

Scg ???????????????????

Surf City Garage Grime Destroyer (I think)

 

[Domas]

I like the Prestone Bug & Tar Remover, it cleaned the bugs baking on my front license plate for two years, in a minute! It foams a lot and sticks and stays on the surface longer, so even small amount is enough.

 

[imported_FJF]

Here's my list of stages I do bug removals in to preserve LSP. The 1st is least agressive & then each step will graduate onto more agressive measures:



1st-

-rinse loose dirt from front end (preferably via powerwasher @ 1500 psi)

-hand wash with car wash soap of choice

-place soapy soaking wet bath towel over bugs - (20-30 minutes will usually loosen everything)

-hand wash again / re-powerwash



2nd-

If that doesn't work:

-same as #1 (above) plus claying with light duty clay



3rd-

-yellow bug sponge via car wash soap

(this will decrease LSP on surface w/o micromarring, but shouldn't totally remove it)



4th-

-yellow bug sponge via APC cleaner

(this will remove LSP w/o micromarring)



5th-(extreme)

fine grit sanding to level out gouged edges of paint from bugs breaking surface

Great tips. Thank you.

 

[holland_patrick]

I use Poorboys bug squash..



we have two ambulances at work and all we had to do was spray let sit then wash as normal...



nothing is easier..

 

[David Fermani]

Dave, I dunno what your so worried about.

Not too worried really. I just choose to concentrate on the ultimate goal which is to avoid inflicting micromarring and removing a properly bonded LSP just to remove bug guts off my front end. This is Autopia after all....:think2

The clearcoat is so much harder than any bug guts attached to it, thus any mild abrasives will preferentially chew up the softer filth vs the clearcoat.

The hardness of the clear has little to do with removing bugs actually. No matter how hard you may think it is, it can still get damaged by bugs(especially love bugs when you're going 80 mph). No need to damage it more by reaching for an abrasive product and go scrubbing away.

The old style bug and tar remover is a superb product. Perhaps it will remove the LSP from the surface (along with the bugs and tar), but so what? That is what spray wax is for.

Nothing like re-loading a marred up surface with a slew of cheap fillers. 1 whiff of that stuff makes me want to gag(we use to have it at my shop). Why does TW have to make it smell so bad and then leave the finish greasy? I've been avoiding using spray waxes as a stand alone LSP these days. They tend to work better as a wax booster/extender instead. Now don't get me started with tar removal processes......:grinno:

 

[GoudyL]

Not too worried really. I just choose to concentrate on the ultimate goal which is to avoid inflicting micromarring and removing a properly bonded LSP just to remove bug guts off my front end. This is Autopia after all....:think2



The hardness of the clear has little to do with removing bugs actually. No matter how hard you may think it is, it can still get damaged by bugs(especially love bugs when you're going 80 mph). No need to damage it more by reaching for an abrasive product and go scrubbing away.



Nothing like re-loading a marred up surface with a slew of cheap fillers. 1 whiff of that stuff makes me want to gag(we use to have it at my shop). Why does TW have to make it smell so bad and then leave the finish greasy? I've been avoiding using spray waxes as a stand alone LSP these days. They tend to work better as a wax booster/extender instead. Now don't get me started with tar removal processes......:grinno:

What makes filth from bugs problematic is that it is acidic, organic, and tends to be dried onto the car. It does its damage via etching and not via abrading the finish (vs road dust etc)



The upside is that bug residue is pretty soft, especially if it has been softened/swollen by the cleaning agent. This means that abrasives that are softer than the clearcoat, but harder than the bug residue will clean it very effectively. Selective abrasion :woot:



So the TW cleaner softens the bug guts with mineral oils etc, and the polishing agents enhance the friction from the cloth you are using. There's plenty of mineral oils in the formula which is why it leaves such a wonderful shine.



If it makes you feel better, think of TW Bug and Tar Remover as showcar glaze with Oomph! If Meg's put this in a tan bottle people would be raving about it.



The alternative to mineral oil/abrasives, is using alkali/strong surfactants/water soluble solvents (aka simple green etc). None of that stuff is good for LSP's either.



What TW Bug and Tar remover is especially useful for is cleaning up rocker panels before you wash the car, especially when dealing with cars that haven't been washed for a while. It quickly gets rid of dried up road tar sling and other stuff that tends to resist washing.

 

[9935annivgt]

i use bug slide. Great stuf I get it from my local harley davidson dealer. they have suprisingly good stuff.

 

[215Detailing]

Stoner Tarminator and a Micofiber bug Sponge

 

[David Fermani]

What makes filth from bugs problematic is that it is acidic, organic, and tends to be dried onto the car. It does its damage via etching and not via abrading the finish (vs road dust etc)

Finally, we can agree on something. You’re absolutely right.

The upside is that bug residue is pretty soft, especially if it has been softened/swollen by the cleaning agent. This means that abrasives that are softer than the clearcoat, but harder than the bug residue will clean it very effectively. Selective abrasion :woot:

So the TW cleaner softens the bug guts with mineral oils etc, and the polishing agents enhance the friction from the cloth you are using. There's plenty of mineral oils in the formula which is why it leaves such a wonderful shine.

Most times bug gut residue swells just fine from dwelling with car wash shampoo too, but it doesn't harm your LSP or scratch your finish. But, no matter how soft it is matters zero when you use an abrasive product loaded with greasy solvents and scrub it across a delicate finish. Yeah, it might make the paint feel wonderfully magnificent, but that's because of the greasy fillers you're covering all your scouring damage with. Classic example of a high filling alert. Nothing worse after all those solvents and oils evaporate relinquishing a dulled up & micromarred surface. What benefit is that? Most people (especially the ones TW targets themselves to) won’t know the difference, but people who avoid using aggressive measures (when possible) can understand where I’m coming from. Welcome to the Autopian way of detailing…

If it makes you feel better, think of TW Bug and Tar Remover as showcar glaze with Oomph! If Meg's put this in a tan bottle people would be raving about it.

As long as a company makes (or distributes) a crappy product, it doesn’t matter who’s name is on it. Every time I’ve reached for TW, it’s been utter disappointment (TW Ice & Zymol liquid wax comes to mind). I guess I'm spoiled by good, quality products. I’m certain you’re more aware of TW’s R & D initiatives than me, but do they run their product testing through end users who wouldn’t know the difference between a glaze and a compound. Hence most of the people they market to (I like to call them the Special Olympians of detailing) fit this description as paint correctionists:

The alternative to mineral oil/abrasives, is using alkali/strong surfactants/water soluble solvents (aka simple green etc). None of that stuff is good for LSP's either.

Right, I already said that. But, if the lighter, less aggressive steps don’t work, this is much better that using a greasy, stinky filler polish that can harm the finish.

What TW Bug and Tar remover is especially useful for is cleaning up rocker panels before you wash the car, especially when dealing with cars that haven't been washed for a while. It quickly gets rid of dried up road tar sling and other stuff that tends to resist washing.

Sure, spray it all over that dirty finish and scrub away. Heck, all those Petroleum Distillates won’t just clean, “it will also leave a shiny, protective wax barrier that will help prevent future grime from sticking�. Turtle wax should make a waterless wash too. :idea

 

[duke4ever]

The thing with bugs is, their shells is made out of chitin which is an organic compound, regardless of the acidity of their body fluids, you can't get them 100% removed (with a non organic surfactant) IF the exoskeleton somehow imbeds itself into your clear coat, which is possible. At a decent speed, a bug splattering on your paint will embed it nicely.



So, there's 2 basic scenarios:



The bug is on your paint but only superficially. In this case you'd want to make sure you remove it immediately and/or bring the ph up till the time you can remove it so it doesn't hurt your paint. A simple water based cleaner should be able to remove the bug in this case.



Second scenario, the bug's embedded in your paint. This is a little more tricky.



Let's examine what's going on here: The acid is eating away at your paint slowly, this combined with the velocity of the initial splatter causes the bugs exoskeleton to embed in your paint causing it to *stick*. This is why you get pitting if you leave the bug long enough.



At this point it's important above all to dissolve the insect body, the hardest substance, chitin. Chitin is mainly N-Acetylglucosamine, that is, it's organic , but more importantly chitin on a bug has a highly crystalline structure (it's a protective shell after all). This reduces its solubility in water. Given that, how do we dissolve an organic compound? With an organic solvent. TW contains a few organic solvents: Turpentine, 2-Butoxyethanol, and Stoddard solvent. These solvents will dissolve the chitin in the bug shell lifting it off your paint. Allowing you to remove it.



In and of themselves, these solvents are not abrasive. The TW bug remover would have to contain some abrasive of its own if in fact its causing micro-marring.



There could be another explanation though: It's possible as the solvents dissolve the chitin and the action of you moving the cloth back and forth is causing microscopic pieces of chitin to rub across the paint as you wipe. Chitin being a hard crystalline material has the potential to mar your paint.



There could be more going on, the TW stuff also contains paraffin, but so do some roach sprays and candle stuff , so I don't know if this is having a filler effect or an effect on the bug itself...

 

[GoudyL]

Most times bug gut residue swells just fine from dwelling with car wash shampoo too, but it doesn't harm your LSP or scratch your finish.

So a long soak in carwash solution doesn't affect the LSP?

But, no matter how soft it is matters zero when you use an abrasive product loaded with greasy solvents and scrub it across a delicate finish.

Kind of like Meg's Machine Glaze?

Yeah, it might make the paint feel wonderfully magnificent, but that's because of the greasy fillers you're covering all your scouring damage with.

Not greasy, oily. And TW Bug and Tar remover doesn't scour the finish. Like I said, its a mild polishing compound at best. And selective abrasion is the best way to get rid of stuck on dirt.

Classic example of a high filling alert. Nothing worse after all those solvents and oils evaporate relinquishing a dulled up & micromarred surface. What benefit is that?

Well given that it leaves a highly polished surface? I'm not sure what your getting at. I've found the liquid bug and tar remover to be really good at removing tar and road grime etc, if you use it as spot cleaner it works great.

As long as a company makes (or distributes) a crappy product, it doesn’t matter who’s name is on it. Every time I’ve reached for TW, it’s been utter disappointment (TW Ice & Zymol liquid wax comes to mind).

Blame Zymol for the blue cleaner wax, it's their formula, TW only blends and distributes it. It's also not a bad product considering the limitations that Zymol sets for it.



I'm not sure what there is to be dissapointed in TW Ice Liquid (especially the post 2007 formula) its a superb pure silicone polish. If that's something you want and know how to get the most out of, it works marvelous.

I’m certain you’re more aware of TW’s R & D initiatives than me, but do they run their product testing through end users who wouldn’t know the difference between a glaze and a compound.

So? It's a retail/prosumer focused company. I'll bet the majority of folks buying NXT at Wal*mart don't know what a glaze or a compound is either.

Sure, spray it all over that dirty finish and scrub away. Heck, all those Petroleum Distillates won’t just clean, “it will also leave a shiny, protective wax barrier that will help prevent future grime from sticking�. Turtle wax should make a waterless wash too. :idea

I really don't understand your hostility to TW or this product. I think if you tried it your opinion of it might change. :think: