Bad Experience with Menzerna 106ff

J

jw

New member
I posted this over on the product forum as well. Sorry if people have already read it.



Please help me and tell me what i'm doing wrong. I have a black porsche 911 that has some very light swirl marks. I used 106ff with my PC and new lake country pads. I started with my orange pad and first of all I couldn't believe how splatter there was and once it broke down there wasa ton of dusting. Is this normal? The 106ff didn't make a dent on the light swirl marks and this on Porsche soft paint. what did i do wrong? I applied some polish on to the pad. I then started the pc on 2 just to spread the polish and then increased slowly until i hit 5 or 6. It was also really tough to remove. I then went to my green pad just so i could see if the shine was that much better. I did half of my hood and although it looked shiny I couldn't tell a difference between the side that was done and the side that wasn't. What am i doing wrong please help? Do I need something stronger than 106ff? Do I need a different pad. i thought 106ff was supposed to get rid of light swirls on soft paint.



Thanks in advance. It's always a bummer to not have good results with something that everyone loves. Do i need a rotary?
 
maybe you didn't apply enough polish??maybe you didn't work until the polish completely break down??you have to apply enough just not to dry quickly and you have to work with it until almost no polish remain on the car..How many polish did you apply and how long did you work with it??
 
jw said:
I posted this over on the product forum as well. Sorry if people have already read it.



Please help me and tell me what i'm doing wrong. I have a black porsche 911 that has some very light swirl marks. I used 106ff with my PC and new lake country pads. I started with my orange pad and first of all I couldn't believe how splatter there was and once it broke down there wasa ton of dusting. Is this normal? The 106ff didn't make a dent on the light swirl marks and this on Porsche soft paint. what did i do wrong? I applied some polish on to the pad. I then started the pc on 2 just to spread the polish and then increased slowly until i hit 5 or 6. It was also really tough to remove. I then went to my green pad just so i could see if the shine was that much better. I did half of my hood and although it looked shiny I couldn't tell a difference between the side that was done and the side that wasn't. What am i doing wrong please help? Do I need something stronger than 106ff? Do I need a different pad. i thought 106ff was supposed to get rid of light swirls on soft paint.



Thanks in advance. It's always a bummer to not have good results with something that everyone loves. Do i need a rotary?
Click to expand...



You didn't put in the year, but if it's a newer one (2005 and >) Porsche is using a different paint formulation. Also, the hoods are aluminum whereas the other body panels are steel. Without seeing photos etc, it's hard to guess what might have gone on, but I suspect it's the orange pad. I don't use 106 with anything more aggressive than a white LC pad. Also, you might want to work a smaller area and pay close attention to how the polish is reacting. The dusting sounds as if you may have tried to do too large an area?



I'm sure you'll get lots of other thoughts from the group here



HTH
 
TH0001 said:
Has any high silicone LSP's been used on the car previously?
Click to expand...



I was going to say the same thing. If this isn't known, dawn is great to help remove whatever LSP is left on the paint.



jw said:
I posted this over on the product forum as well. Sorry if people have already read it.



Please help me and tell me what i'm doing wrong. I have a black porsche 911 that has some very light swirl marks. I used 106ff with my PC and new lake country pads. I started with my orange pad and first of all I couldn't believe how splatter there was and once it broke down there wasa ton of dusting. Is this normal? The 106ff didn't make a dent on the light swirl marks and this on Porsche soft paint. what did i do wrong? I applied some polish on to the pad. I then started the pc on 2 just to spread the polish and then increased slowly until i hit 5 or 6. It was also really tough to remove. I then went to my green pad just so i could see if the shine was that much better. I did half of my hood and although it looked shiny I couldn't tell a difference between the side that was done and the side that wasn't. What am i doing wrong please help? Do I need something stronger than 106ff? Do I need a different pad. i thought 106ff was supposed to get rid of light swirls on soft paint.



Thanks in advance. It's always a bummer to not have good results with something that everyone loves. Do i need a rotary?
Click to expand...



First, it sounds to me like you used too much polish. Also, the orange pads, if not even room temperature and primed, become hard. This causes the pad to not conform to the curves of the car, heaving gaps along the outside of the pad, flinging product everywhere.



As a user previously stated, it does sound like you were working an area too large, considering the heavy dusting, and how hard it was to remove the polish. That's what happens to Menzerna and practically every polish when you let it dry, or work in direct sunlight. I must admit, I'm guilty of working an entire panel sometimes before wiping off my polish, usually doors and the upper 3/4 of fenders. Just don't wait too long, Menzerna is picky.



Try a white pad, and try PO83Q SIP. If it is an 05+, it will work wonders. I did this on an '06 Carrera 4S a few weeks ago with my PC7424.

Remember to follow up with PO106FF Nano or PO87MC FPII.

Pad choice is up to you.



Lastly, no need for a rotary on that soft Porsche paint unless you really run into something bad. In my case, the paint was on the terrible side and I still didn't need to bring out ze panzerfaust PE12-175.
 
Most of you already know this, but 106FF was/is designed for Mercedes exclusively. In the early 2000's Mercedes started baking cars with ceramic particles in the paint. That's what 106FF was designed for. Yes, there's a ton of people who love 106FF and I am a big fan of Menzerna myself. That's why I use some other products like P085U and PO115CQ (soon to be replaced with DWG), IP and/SIP. If your porsche doesn't need a lot of correction consider another finishing compound with a grey pad and glaze with a white or yellow pad.
 
Big_O said:
Most of you already know this, but 106FF was/is designed for Mercedes exclusively. In the early 2000's Mercedes started baking cars with ceramic particles in the paint. That's what 106FF was designed for. Yes, there's a ton of people who love 106FF and I am a big fan of Menzerna myself. That's why I use some other products like P085U and PO115CQ (soon to be replaced with DWG), IP and/SIP. If your porsche doesn't need a lot of correction consider another finishing compound with a grey pad and glaze with a white or yellow pad.
Click to expand...



DWG replace Menzerna? Not with me it won't, not quite yet.



Also, I must clarify that my pad recommendations were based on the CCS foam pad line. You are obviously specifying a different type, considering you recommend yellow for glaze.



JW, What color is this Porsche? 05+? Solid, non-metallic in color?
 
Even with a rotary, PO106FF isn't the greatest swirl remover. It's meant to be a *finishing polish*, not a correction polish. To get the best results removing swirls (especially with a PC), you're going to need a polish designed to do just that: remove swirls. Something like Menzerna Super Intensive Polish. Use this on your LC orange pad to do the "correcting" (swirl removal), then use the PO106FF to further refine the finish to a bright shine.



Each polish is suited to it's own task, and you'll get best results if you use them for what they were made for:



SIP = medium duty correction polish (swirl removal and light defect removal)

PO106FF = Finishing polish (refine the finish to a bright shine)
 
SuperBee364 said:
Even with a rotary, PO106FF isn't the greatest swirl remover. It's meant to be a *finishing polish*, not a correction polish. To get the best results removing swirls (especially with a PC), you're going to need a polish designed to do just that: remove swirls. Something like Menzerna Super Intensive Polish. Use this on your LC orange pad to do the "correcting" (swirl removal), then use the PO106FF to further refine the finish to a bright shine.



Each polish is suited to it's own task, and you'll get best results if you use them for what they were made for:



SIP = medium duty correction polish (swirl removal and light defect removal)

PO106FF = Finishing polish (refine the finish to a bright shine)
Click to expand...



Referring to my post, #5.

http://autopia.org/forum/machine-polishing/105469-bad-experience-menzerna-106ff.html#post1105972

Word. I concur. Good advice, as always.



I recommend white because of my experience I've had with these paints, the orange seems to apply a bit too much "stiff" pressure to be easily workable, white is just perfect, particularly with the curvaceous bodywork and the paint that's as soft as heaven. Orange will work, but it's unnecessarily more difficult.



One thing I love about Menzerna is the fact that (with the exception of highest cut compounds) They don't hologram, so it's easy to fool yourself into thinking the job is done, until you finish with one of the finishing polishes. It's amazing, such quality.
 
I had a similar issue last week w/my flex. 106ff and an orange pad wouldn't remove a deeper scratch w/marring. Switched to SIP and orange pad on the flex - perfect! Then finished up with the 106ff w/white pad and DWG, NXT 2.0. Looked great, no problems. I agree the orange pad is stiffer and will sling - just wipe it off.



Good luck, jke :2thumbs:
 
c6 cowboy said:
I had a similar issue last week w/my flex. 106ff and an orange pad wouldn't remove a deeper scratch w/marring. Switched to SIP and orange pad on the flex - perfect! Then finished up with the 106ff w/white pad and DWG, NXT 2.0. Looked great, no problems. I agree the orange pad is stiffer and will sling - just wipe it off.



Good luck, jke :2thumbs:
Click to expand...



Don't get me wrong, orange is preferred for almost every other situation. CCS Orange is slightly more aggressive as well, which is great. Still, in this particular situation with the curvaceous body of the Porsche, I found it quite helpful to use the softer pad on the soft single stage black.



Yet, I prefer orange on my BMW E34 though, it's got Panzer armor clear.

Definitely the way to go most of the time. Also, like I said, make sure the pad isn't under 40-50*F, they become much stiffer otherwise.
 
For illustration, here's a before and after of my '06 black Porsche (right rear) using 106FA and an LC white pad. This is after one pass, as I wanted to compare the FA to the FF version of Menz 106.



As others have noted, those LC orange pads are pretty stiff.



HTH



DSC_0049.jpg


DSC_0051.jpg
 
Wonderful illistration, thank you for sharing.



I must say, that Porsche seems to have more orange peel than what I regularly run in to on that section of the car, I'm surprised.



Well, while we're at it... Here are my terrible photography skills, for the record.



l_5b07d6b54356960c726b6485339f6150.jpg


l_70a1a4a6dadaebf95d712fe6486100e4.jpg




...Camera went into night more, everything has motion blur. I'll have more photos eventually, and I'm sure you'll see them.

Regardless, you can see the relevant change of first stage polishing.



Later that evening...

l_921ca6f37bc614f496791a828b3b7fe0.jpg
 
I cropped and "zoomed" on that photo, which seems to bring out the OP in the photo.



Here are a couple of others--one inside and one outside --so you can see the difference.



BTW, looks like you did some very nice correction on that car.



DSC_0043.jpg


DSC_0028.jpg
 
Thanks for the responses. The car is an 07 black carrera s. I think you're probably right, I was using too much polish and I was tryiing to do one panel at a time. I guess this was too much. So should I try this again with 106ff or should i purchase some SIP
 
jw said:
Thanks for the responses. The car is an 07 black carrera s. I think you're probably right, I was using too much polish and I was tryiing to do one panel at a time. I guess this was too much. So should I try this again with 106ff or should i purchase some SIP
Click to expand...



I would recommend buying the polish first, you'll burn yourself out otherwise. Even though you used too much polish, you should have corrected a little bit, and it sounds like youn are completely unhappy with the results. Definitely buy the polish, you'll thank yourself later and maybe somebody else will too, seeing as you'll have some more experience. You know that you'll want to work on the buddy's car soon after you achieve victory. :D
 
Nice to see another 997 owner here!!:2thumbs: And another black 997 as well!!



Unless you have a whole lot of swirls from poor washing/drying etc, which BTW is very easy due to the softness of this paint, I'd still do smaller sections at a time with a white pad for finish polishing. If the finish has swirls, then yes, you need to step up to a more of a cutting polish. However, seeing this paint is very soft, use a white pad. Orange pads can be a bit too agressive on this paint.



Always, start soft, then work up if you're not getting results. Same for polishes, less abrasive first, work up.



I've seen orange pads produce haze on black 997 finishes if used incorrectly.



Dedicate enough time. Do not rush! Work the polish until fully broken down.



Some MF towels can be a bit too agressive as well when wiping off. You have to find ones that have enough bite for polish removal, but not too much or you're going to be in a vicious circle. Try 100% USA cotton with all trim removed and washed enough to be soft.



If you're using a "PC" bring up the speed and add enough pressure to keep the pad following the contour of the car, not too much to crush the pad or stop the "PC" from moving correctly.



106FF is a very light finishing polish used to remove very light sanding marks and mostly used on fresh paint. Then there's PO85RD which has a high gloss level and very very low cut level and used only for fine polishing. Both polishes are for hard clearcoat "Ceramiclear" and contain a whole lot of oils to run longer polishing time.



You can then maintain the finish by using a light cleanser such as P21S or other ones that are also AIO types (Klasse or Zaino).



Just be careful using MF's on the car as well. Not only do you have to worry about marring the finish, get too close to the front latch and have too much static from the MF's and you'll blow the latch module. Since yours is a '07, I think this has been addressed by Porsche. But, if the latch pops open, you may have this issue, just let the dealer know and they'll switch it out under warranty.



Enjoy your C2S!! :2thumbs: I sure enjoy my C2S!!!!



Regards,

Deanski
 
Deanski, what do you use on your 997? I'm very careful with my washing process but as you know even being very careful you can still get some light swirls. I only see my if in the right light.
 
jw said:
Deanski, what do you use on your 997? I'm very careful with my washing process but as you know even being very careful you can still get some light swirls. I only see my if in the right light.
Click to expand...



One thing vital is a very "slippery" soap that has lots of lube. I use sheepskin mitts and several rinse buckets along with running water to try to remove any trapped dirt in the mitt.



Since I use Zaino, I've been using Z7 wash. I've also used 1Z Perls which is also a good wash. Anything that can lube well. ONR works very well in getting the dirt loose as well and does not require rise, but I do it anyway.



Once done, I dry with a HH leaf blower with a filter attached. As long as the area is still wet, no dirt will kick up. Remaining I get with a WWeave towel.



This paint is so soft, just looking at it the wrong way gets marring.:chuckle:



I feel your pain!:hairpull It's tuff to keep it perfect, but we try as all hell to keep it that way.



Regards,

Deanski
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top