Autopia Opens The Debate

[Setec Astronomy]

Speaking the truth is grinding an ax? At one point Bob from Danase was a sponsor here(until his forum cost skyrocketed) and Anthony was always up front about his affiliation with Optimum. IIRC their banning was around the time Autopia went commercial with the Ultima line. And if their infractions were so horribly wrong why were they reinstated as members after a long period of time? Nothing changed on their part.

Perhaps you forget that ACC used to cough up most of the monetary support for the forum. For apparently many reasons, DB decided to break that link and open the forum to other sponsors, at which point he became very sensitive to people with non-sponsor vendor/mfr. affiliations "spamming". Clearly, those people were let back in on their promise not to break the new rules, that is what changed "on their part".



I'm not defending what was done, I just don't remember it as some sort of witch hunt to remove the "good" members...and your current suggestions of amnesty smack a little bit of opening the prisons...

 

[wannafbody]

Perhaps you forget that ACC used to cough up most of the monetary support for the forum. For apparently many reasons, DB decided to break that link and open the forum to other sponsors, at which point he became very sensitive to people with non-sponsor vendor/mfr. affiliations "spamming". Clearly, those people were let back in on their promise not to break the new rules, that is what changed "on their part".



I'm not defending what was done, I just don't remember it as some sort of witch hunt to remove the "good" members...and your current suggestions of amnesty smack a little bit of opening the prisons...

Did you read Bob's response? I know that there were blatant spammers and they deserved to be banned but that wasn't the case with everyone and some cases seemed mighty suspicious (Todd, ZoranC). Now, maybe I don't know all the details about every case but the ones I do know from first hand information paint a much different picture than what was publicly portrayed by the last owner.



Yes, Autopia Store payed the bills for this site for years and for whatever reason The Perfect Shine partnership split up and Autopia Store ended up leaving. I have my doubts that was a friendly split.



I think the biggest issue for 3D is to find a balance between enough commercial content to pay the bills and too much commercial content that the site becomes a giant billboard and hype machine for a never ending barage of new technological breakthrough products. Quite frankly, the site became a hype machine and I think it turned hurt the forums.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Did you read Bob's response? I know that there were blatant spammers and they deserved to be banned but that wasn't the case with everyone and some cases seemed mighty suspicious (Todd, ZoranC). Now, maybe I don't know all the details about every case but the ones I do know from first hand information paint a much different picture than what was publicly portrayed by the last owner.

Yes, I did read Bob (Danase's) response; he's back, what more do you want? Is there really a laundry list of people who left under similar circumstances? In case you don't remember, most of the people who have been banned were simply because their name should have been Richard. Some of those have been let back in (say, William Bonney), only to prove that once a Richard, always a Richard. If you miss Todd, I've got news, he's got his own forum now...all Todd, all the time.



Maybe you can submit your list of terrorists you'd like to have released, and the forum can vote on them (with management approval, of course).

 

[Pats300zx]

the site becomes a giant billboard and hype machine for a never ending barage of new technological breakthrough products. Quite frankly, the site became a hype machine and I think it turned hurt the forums.

Don't you think this is the case with just about every detailing forum that is supported in some way??? I mean why else are the sponsors there unless to sell product. I think it is up to the members to decide what is hype, what is BS, and use what products work for them.

 

[David Fermani]

I think whatever trouble they got in pertained to their mfr. and vendor relationships. I can think of very few instances when an unaffiliated member had any action taken against them for recommending a non-sponsor product.

Yeah, anyone that threatened DB's own product and personal agenda/integrity usually got the boot. Sad, because 99% of those people are the back bone to real knowledge. W/O many of them there is no real validation to many discussions here. Just a bunch of enthusiast & pro detailers that argue about what they think is the truth. Some of the best discussions and input have come from banned members here. Maybe they'll consider returning knowing that DB isn't here any longer?

If you miss Todd, I've got news, he's got his own forum now...all Todd, all the time.



Maybe you can submit your list of terrorists you'd like to have released, and the forum can vote on them (with management approval, of course).

I didn't know Todd had his own forum? Mind elaborating so people can avoid thinking you're so spiteful?.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Yeah, anyone that threatened DB's own product and personal agenda/integrity usually got the boot. Sad, because 99% of those people are the back bone to real knowledge. W/O many of them there is no real validation to many discussions here. Just a bunch of enthusiast & pro detailers that argue about what they think is the truth. Some of the best discussions and input have come from banned members here.

So that will magically change if all those people are let back? Those banned members KNOW what the truth is, as opposed to those of us who are left, who just THINK we know? If only reality were so transparent and graspable; we all have our own perspectives, and our own "truth". You know, one's man junk is another's treasure, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I guess if we can get enough people here who are truthy we can just beat down all the stupid, stubborn people and get them to think just like the truthers. Won't that be fun! I think that experiment was tried elsewhere, and failed.

I didn't know Todd had his own forum? Mnd elaborating so people avoid think you're so a spiteful?.

For all intents and purposes, it's his forum, it's certainly his venue, created for/by him, and you're not going to lure me into elaborating so I can run afoul of the new managment here. They may tolerate wide product discussion but there is certainly no need to plug other forums here, as you are trying to get me to do.

 

[BobD]

Don't you think this is the case with just about every detailing forum that is supported in some way??? I mean why else are the sponsors there unless to sell product. I think it is up to the members to decide what is hype, what is BS, and use what products work for them.

I agree with you man. I just wish the rules would change so they could only do that stuff in their own forums though instead of allowing them to sponsors other forums. That way if you want to read about what they are doing you can do it in one forum and if not you don't have to to go into that forum at all.

 

[David Fermani]

Not trying to plug another forum at all. Just don't know why you're so full of deeply rooted anger towards people than move this industry forward. People that have contributed to this forum more than most. And I'm not talking about just 1 person here.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Those banned members KNOW what the truth is,



I wish I knew...............:faint: If someone knows the truth please stand up and share it with me.

 

[Junebug]

I'd like to see everyone that was banned given the opportunity to come back, I would like to see Todd back because he's not only an excellant detailer but he has the best write-ups and the most interesting cars. I doubt he would come back since he's busy with his own forum and that is doing very well. I know there are some that would probably last all of 3 days before they get banned again, but there are some real decent folks that got banned and ought to get that second chance. You have to take the good with the bad.



This is a decent forum, it doesn't have the super PC correct, net nanny crap that MOL has, nor the 1 post a week that a few others get and it's not the all schill, all the time that XX has become, (I'm sure all TID members will get a kick outta that)



So, I guess we wait and see what will happen.

 

[wannafbody]

Don't you think this is the case with just about every detailing forum that is supported in some way??? I mean why else are the sponsors there unless to sell product. I think it is up to the members to decide what is hype, what is BS, and use what products work for them.

There is a difference between commercial content and late night TV infomercial techniques. David Bynon was the Billy Mays of car care products-both the good and the bad. One can only use the same schtick sales technique with so many lines, so many times before the pattern becomes obvious and old. Hopefully the new owners try different sales techniques.

 

[Anthony O.]

Yes I was banned.....for apparently having too close of a relationship with a manufacturer of a competing product line.



In fact I had the dubious honor of having been re-banned about 2 weeks after having been allowed back in!!



Upon my second ban (after speaking about the Opti-Coat in the "professional" forum, ya'll remember that infamous thread?) the letter I received indicated I had pissed off numerous forum sponsors. Which really confused me because no other sponsor had a coating product at that time like Optimums (even now I type this in fear of being banned again).



So I now rarely post up any details or give my input into subjects not only here on Autopia but other forums also. I used to be a post whore back in the day but things change. I had the great fortune of being contacted by Doctor G. some years ago and was able to introduce his line of products to many here but the downside to that is I come across like a paid troll or salesman when I speak of them.....eh, it's a trade off I reckon.



I'm sure that the new Autopia will do well because so far it seems like a smooth transition....heck it was done way back in May right?



I have though heard rumors of some threads being deleted that paint the 3D line of products in a negative light and if that be so then it should raise some eyebrows.



Anthony

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I would like to see Todd back because he's not only an excellant detailer but he has the best write-ups and the most interesting cars. I doubt he would come back since he's busy with his own forum and that is doing very well.

I guess I don't understand this (besides the fact that according to DF I have a deeply rooted anger against Todd )...since his writeups appear elsewhere, what is that big deal about having him back here? He's certainly not going to do any exclusive write-ups here when he's "employed" by another forum.

 

[David Fermani]

Like I said Setec, it's not about 1 person, but for some reason you're compelled to keep coming back to Todd? Why? Did he do something you didn't like or are you just that cut & dry with anyone that's been banned from here?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Like I said Setec, it's not about 1 person, but for some reason you're compelled to keep coming back to Todd? Why? Did he do something you didn't like or are you just that cut & dry with anyone that's been banned from here?

I don't keep coming back to him, people keep bringing him up by name. I just don't get the idol worship, of him or anyone else. Is idolizing him a requirement for being a member here? Do I have to like the flavor of ice cream you like? Do I have to like your friends? Do you have to like mine?



This rehash of banned members is a little bit like recriminating over gf's you've broken up with or wives you've divorced, it doesn't seem like a productive or going-forward activity. In the end it doesn't make any difference what I think about current or former members, so I don't see why you are so insistent that I make a "statement" concerning my feelings for Todd.



IMO most people who have been banned in the last few years were banned because they couldn't behave like adults. The rest got banned for commercialism, which was a pretty gray area and up to the management of the forum, and as I think I've said before, the only away around that gray area is to have a pay-membership forum, which is going to result in a pretty small community.

 

[wannafbody]

I have though heard rumors of some threads being deleted that paint the 3D line of products in a negative light and if that be so then it should raise some eyebrows.>>



When a forum owner or moderators delete posts that leads to suspicion on the part of members and an erosion of trust on the part of the members. David Bynon not only deleted posts but he deleted whole histories of members posts after he banned them. Some feared to post honest reviews of products for fear of being banned. I remember Todd doing an Ultima test where it fell short of the hype(it did fair decently though). Not too long afterward he was out the door. Coincidence?



I hope 3D doesn't continue the same questionable business practices.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

I remember Todd doing an Ultima test...

See DF, not me!

 

[David Fermani]

And you're point is.....???I don't see this as anything negative. Maybe you can give it one or two magic puffs of hatred dust?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

And you're point is.....???I don't see this as anything negative. Maybe you can give it one or two magic puffs of hatred dust?

Ok, I get the idea that you don't like me. I don't see how this is helping the community.

 

[David Fermani]

Ok, I get the idea that you don't like me..

I think you answered your own question=

Is idolizing a requirement for being a member here? Do I have to like the flavor of ice cream you like? Do I have to like your friends? Do you have to like mine?



In the end it doesn't make any difference what I think about current or former members