Autopia Certified Detailers

Wow - thanks for the vote of confidence, jcatt!



I'm not sure why the idea is being poo-poo'd so fast; if there was ever an industry that needed some sort of regulation and accreditation, it certainly would be the detailing industry.



Think about all of the posts, pictures, threads, comments, chats, complaints, rants, etc. that we've encountered in our little niche site here regarding "detailers" who have butchered people's cars.



Heck, venture down to mid-south Florida, and anyone with an extension cord and a buffer is considered "a pro detailer".



Why not create a standard? What's the harm? Have a set of standards that people must pass, much like ASE certification.



ASE isn't much different than a high school diploma or a college degree - it doesn't mean you're "the best mechanic" or "the most ethical mechanic" (if a diploma meant you were the best or ethical, then everyone would have one, right?) - it simply means that you take pride and initiative in your work, and that you understand the basic principals behind car repair.



I'm intrigued by this idea, jcatt. I'm going to put some serious thought into it -- for all the naysayers, I ask, "Would you rather visit a doctor who is AMA certified or one who simply wears a white coat and carries a stethescope?"



Plenty of other analogies as well: MCSE, PMI, EEC, etc....
 
I am with you and would gladly be willing to put time and money into this idea.. although dr's arent AMA certified, but what they do have is a "college" for each specialty that requires they pass an exam and then renew it every 10 years.. this shows a minimum level of knowledge in their area of expertise.. I myself am a Certified Medical Practice Executive.. I took the exams 10 years ago and am required to keep up a certain level of Cont Educ Units every 5 years..

the exam just shows what a person knows at the time of the exam. but that is all that is necessary..

also, not all medical group managers do things the same way but that doesnt mean that they arent good managers..

the same goes for a lot of professions..

also, Geeky is right, standards are not a bad thing.. Jman has a point but no one is out there to keep people from trying different things/methods for improvement, thats how standards change over time.. the standard isnt which polish brand you use, did you use it? was it appropiate for the problem, etc..



Count me in.

Dana
 
Standards are fine but when I search for a doctor I ask people I know for recommendations. I do the same with mechanics and paintshops. I don't really look at certification, I look at proven track records. I can go through autoint's certification process but it doesn't mean I'm going to follow what I was taught. I think someone on here already proved that when he took his corvette to someone who went to the autoint detail class. I think from what I remember he swirled the guys car up. What happens when someone goes to someone "Autopia certified" and he messes up the person's car. It'll reflect badly on the certification program. If it happens often enough, then the program will end up being considered a joke. Just something to think about.



I mean, I had a vehicle's transmission worked on by a guy who did it out of the garage in his backyard. He didn't have any certificates but came recommended by several friends. He got the work done and the trans didn't have anymore problems.
 
I think your points are well taken.. when I had my certification exam, part of it was an oral test.. this was done to assess my level of knowledge and to see if I knew how to solve a problem that was presented to me..

this was more recently done when I had a phone interview for a job where I had to describe a problem that I had fixed in detail.



so I think if you presented those types of problems of just had the person buff out an area on a swirled hood, you could test to see if the person knew what they were doing or not..
 
This is a nice thought and a big dream but it would never be able to work because there are far too many "backyard" detailers out there to certify and regulate.



Scott and I are both in Texas but our prices may not be the same for the same car. He has the ability to work magic without a machine polisher and I spend hours polishing with a polisher. Now who would determine which method is best ?



I am certified and Scott is certified but would Scott be frowned upon for notusing a rotary to remove scratches and swirls or worse yet perhaps Scott would not be certified because he does not like to use a rotary. That would be unfair.



My point is that detailing is highly subjective. There is no absolute set standard that one can judge by in an objective manner. In other words there is no "The One" highly detailed car that all others can and should be judged by because one person may love shiny wet looking tires while another loves a more natural sheen. One may love the plasticky look of Zaino and another the warm glow of a carnuba.



In basketball it can be done because there is only one way to win. The team that scores more baskets! That is the "objective" goal. A car mechanic has a goal, which is to fix what is broken with the car.



I know of a certain individual, who appears to have been banned from this and other sites, who would like to regulate the detailing industry, under his business of course, and also get rid of mobile detailers but this again would never work because far too many folks do weekend or side job details for extra cash or money for school.



So again, this is a neat thought but I do not believe it would ever come to pass.



Anthony
 
I think we can all agree that there is no perfect process. There are only perfect practices. If you detail with passion and with high ethics then that makes you an Autopian. Those are the only credentials I need to see. :) The rest of it is just paper. How many people really respect the paper anyway? If you go to get your car detailed by someone then you are going to do the homework on the guy's past results, like Intel said. The proof is in the pudding and not on the wall. Untill they start teaching Detailing at colleges and universities I think the only thing we can get that are going to matter to customers are the various industry certifications that already exist. We all know the Autopians from the rest. The differences are obvious.
 
I love autopia dont get me worng...but i don't want to walk around with a big autopia certification stamp on me bum :) ;) :D



"Certified Grade A Autopian" I would feel like beef. ;)





J/K
 
If a human thinks fo it, it can be done, maybe not now, but one day it will be so.



Why have certification, why not cant those who are pro's on Autopia just display Autopias logo. At least that way id be confident that the job would be well done.



It is also brand buildng.
 
As I read the replies here I am reminded of a saying that is said everytime a person would come into my Jujitsu dojo and profess to be a "blackbelt" in some martial art.



"A belt covers 3 inches of your ***. The rest is up to you!"



A "detailing certificate" would be looked at the same way, at least I believe I would view it as such.



Anthony
 
This is a great discussion and I'm glad JCATT brought it up.



After reading this and thinking about it, I was reminded of a funny story someone told me once. I think it has a parallel here.



At the end of WWII there were a bunch of soldiers being treated for head injuries at one particular hospital. All of them had steel plates attached to their skulls repairing them due to combat action.



In the recovery ward a couple soldiers started hatching a "get rich quick" scheme that was gonna be a huge success. The word got out to the rest of the soliders in the ward and soon everyone was pumped up about the idea of easy money. Then one day, a solider stopped the group discussion and said, "boys, before we get carried away with this idea, maybe we should run it past someone who doesn't have a steel plate in their head."



One critical point of view missing from the discussion so far is the point of the average consumer who knows nothing about car detailing, products, tools, techniques, etc. What's most important to them is that someone experienced, trained, and trustworthy is working on their car. Whether that's an ASE mechanic, a trained stereo installer, or a detailer, consumers feel better about taking their cars to someone who is proven certified. All the talk of a piece of paper not being valuable misses the point completely. Frankly, you could say that about a lot of things. College diplomas, computer certifications, drivers licences, bar exams, any professional licensing (hair dressers, bar owners, etc). Dismissing certification is dumber than trusting it 100%. Let's not be so narrow minded (and I know narrowmindedness, just ask Intermezzo how narrowminded I am).



Certification would have been a great idea for Autopia Council. It would not only legitimize detailers but Autopia as well. As long as the only future of Autopia is a chat forum and online store then this idea will be a hard sell. But I see no reason why Autopia could not partner with a more established company or organization to strength legitimacy.



Guys, this is already being done in the industry. Read these articles:



http://www.carwash.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=40216

http://www.carwash.com/news.asp?mode=4&N_ID=40277



So anyone who says this cannot be done is flat wrong. Anyone who says its unworkable is flat wrong. Its being done as we speak. The big question now is, where does Autopia fit in? So far I have not read one valid objection in this thread that could not be easily overcome.



Guys, as long as detailing is seen as backyard, amateurish, unprofessional, and formally untrained, it will never be taken seriously. Its up to those serious about the hobby to take it to the next level.
 
jcattarulla said:
Another good point.



But as far as pics for proof: consider some of the people here on Autopia who photo-enhance their shots to make their work look so refelctive that you can't really even tell what the car looks like.
Click to expand...



:confused: Who and how?



The main problem I see is that there are so many different products that are used, and not all of them are used the same way. A test for Zaino would be different for one for carnuba users.



Honestly, the best way would be something like a 'mystery shopper' to make sure detailers were actually doing the work right.
 
What autopia is today, a group of fanatics, would disapear if it was associated with a certification. It would slowly evolve corporate politics and fade away into a not-so-caring place.



Bret no one is saying it can't be done, anything can be done.



Detailing is a rainforest, beautiful, wild and untamed certifying it would be like chopping it all down...Sure you would get beautiful and exotic furniture nice big houses and all that, but when you stop and look at it in the end there is no more green...just a shiny waxed brown.
 
bret,



Interesting points but please tell me who is qualified to teach?



There is an objective set standard for a doctor, lawyer, dentist, plumber, mechanic, computer tech, and scores of other pro's but what objective standard is there for the artist?



Detailing is an art....a form of art, at least it is for me as I am sure it is for many Autopians, so how can it be regulated?



Would it be by products? Prices? Or perhaps methods?



It could not be regulated by tools and/or equipment for one may not use a polisher while another may. One artist uses inks while another uses pencil, yet they work on the same object. It can't be by products because there is no one "best" wax or polish. Prices would be very difficult because one can only charge what the market of that area will support. My method of detailing may be totally different from others, so who is to say their is the better way?



Which brings up another question.

Who is qualified to teach another "professional" detailer?



Also the articles you presented show nothing in the way of regulation coming to pass for the detailing industry. In fact this "idea" is not a new one because over 12 years ago a detailer/supplier in So. Calif. tried to get together an Auto Detailing Organization to set standards and regulations for both fixed and mobile detailers but membership was the constant problem because you always had shops and mobile guys starting and failing daily.



It will be a sad day when a regulation states that I must apply "this" product in "this" situation or I must perform X amount of steps for this car but not over X amount of steps. I for one would never join an organization that regulated or attempted to tell me how to detail cars. I mean no offense to you, just my 2 sense.



Anthony
 
I definitely agree with Anthony. There are just too many ways to detail a car to come up with one set standard.



What works for me may not work for someone else. Mobile detailers may use different techniques than brick and mortar detailers, and the methods one uses for the used car lot cheapie details are not the same as for privately owned vehicles.



It would be nice if there was a way to certify the final results as being up to a certain standard, but the process is much harder to certify, IMO.
 
Well, here's my $.02...



I think a certification program is worth putting time into. I'm not as concerned with the products as I am with fundamental knowledge and procedure. Technique is not something you can easily test, nor would you want to.



I could easily write a series of workbooks and exams that most of you could not pass without serious study. As an example, a test on automotive surfaces and materials could easily cover 100 to 200 questions. How important is it for professional detailers to know the chemical make up of the last five generations of OEM paint finishes? How about carpet fiber composition? Have any of you ever properly detailed a 100% wool carpet?



The bigger question to me is who would decide what knowledge is correct? In the computer industry we have standards organizations, like ANSI. For electronics there's IEEE. No such standards body exists for car detailing.



I think if something like this is to be done, which I believe would bring great credibility to the industry, there needs to be a recognized standards body.
 
Things that make you go :hm Great points David. I like what you said about the standards just not existing yet. Detailing is hard to measure because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Setting universal standards for detailing would be like setting universal standards for art. You can set the standards for your shop or for your business but that doesn't mean that there isn't another school of thought on it. Like an art studio may only hang abstract art and shun realistic paintings. They are still in the same boat but just different schools of thought. Even though I make no sense, I think David hit it right on the head.
 
You can break down the Certification...

EXAMPLE

Cisco Certified...

Several certification...a basic up to advanced....

Example

CCNA-Basic

30 percent of what I studied I will never use, but having it says I know the basics

Then you take another exam to be more "specialized"



My 2c's..
 
I was looking through the whos on-line, and someone was looking at this old thread, so i thought i would bring it back to life:



I have a question on this. Pretty much directed toward David.



Anyhow, being that you are the ring leader of this group, what would it take from us professionals to get you interested in taking your time to create this sort of certification? I mean if we all paid $100 wether we pass or fail, that may help you to be compensated (and help cover some of the operating costs of this place) I really think that a certification program that is both difficult and exclusive would be something that could really add to the industry, and the marketability of true "detail" shops over the quick swirl shops.



I would love to have a part in making this happen, even if it was just in the form of feedback or $ backing to get the ball rolling



Mike
 
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