Attention: Detailers that only offer Full Corrections.....

[justin30513]

I hate doing full details. Take to long and way to far between. I have very seldom got a referral from a full detail as well. They simply want to have the best looking car.....and the only one!



To me it's not about prestige. It's about staying booked and paying the bills. Once again, I'd rather do 5, 100.00 mini details as 1 full detail. Chances of referrals are exponential.



Thanks David for this thread!!!

 

[justin30513]

If you chase every scratch aka swirl, you will loose money. There is no way you can price it right. Every finish is different. Heck, the humidity that day can even effect your time. Now if you don't care about an hourly rate, that's ok. It hard to not work on one though. I have to.

 

[sacdetailing]

Its true. this week i polished whole front of a van (lightly sanded the hood with da) to match the repainted color. It took me 3 hours with out hassle to get done faster because i didnt have anything else to do. i charged him $100 he was happy. . divide that by 3 and you get $33 something bucks an hour. That's 3 times more then i used to get working for somebody. piece.

 

[justin30513]

Its true. this week i polished whole front of a van (lightly sanded the hood with da) to match the repainted color. It took me 3 hours with out hassle to get done faster because i didnt have anything else to do. i charged him $100 he was happy. . divide that by 3 and you get $33 something bucks an hour. That's 3 times more then i used to get working for somebody. piece.

And that's a great way to look at it. You made what YOU needed to make. Not what other detailers say you should.



If you're making money and happy, then you're doing something right.

 

[Junebug]

Quote - "If you're making money and happy, then you're doing something right. " Best thing I've read in a while.



I'm looking at changing my marketing this year, full corrections - sure - but with some understanding that I maintain it afterwards, but the customers I get, I'd say 90% just want clean and shiney.

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

I think this post made its intended point.



To get people thinking.

 

[justin30513]

I think this post made its intended point.



To get people thinking.

And that's what forums should be about. Collective thoughts. Helping one another. Asking questions and so forth.



I just got back from a meeting with a local subdivisions home owner's group (it's pouring rain here....no car cleaning!) and spoke about exterior home cleaning. I picked up 5 houses, three deck restorations, and several glass cleanings. They said...."Oh yeah, you can do our cars too when you get the time but lets get the house done first."



Sometimes we have to just work at getting work.

 

[imported_Detailing Technology]

And that's what forums should be about. Collective thoughts. Helping one another. Asking questions and so forth.



I just got back from a meeting with a local subdivisions home owner's group (it's pouring rain here....no car cleaning!) and spoke about exterior home cleaning. I picked up 5 houses, three deck restorations, and several glass cleanings. They said...."Oh yeah, you can do our cars too when you get the time but lets get the house done first."



Sometimes we have to just work at getting work.

Do it, Do it, Do it....



Bro if it was my business, I'd be polishing turds for people!

 

[autoconcierge]

Whether you are a professional who does this for a living, or a part time guy who just does it for fun and some extra cash; target the market you think is most profitable and position your product to best serve that market. Then, spend your time figuring out the best way to effectively market to the people in your target market. Worrying about what others are doing, or not doing is not going to help much with your success.

The OP was taking a shot..........but missed as usual. The above post reflects the reality of what some of us are doing now as the business model evolved from doing one step and more affordable details to going after well to do clients that expect and are looking for more.

 

[autoconcierge]

You’re leaving money on the table for others to pick up and run with! :sadwavey::rofl



I can’t help but to notice that several detailers both on various forums as well as ones in the S. Florida area bragging about only being interested in doing full corrections. They won’t even do a Wash N Waxes on their cleint's cars, Engine Details or an Interior. After all, we’re detailers doing detailing which consists of more that just making paint perfect. Whether you detail full or part time I personally think that it’s pretty narrow minded to only cater to people that want, or better yet need this extreme service :nono



In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with coaching a customer on their options based on theirs and their vehicle’s needs. Just because their vehicle suffers from moderate to heavy marring doesn’t mean that they only see value in a complete correction. I try warning my clients that going after every possible defect is ok, but not unless they are willing to modify their maintenance routine to cater to this new finish I’ll be creating. I feel there’s no point in someone spending several hundred or thousand dollars returning their car’s paint to optimal condition just to have it go right back to its prior state after a few crappy washes through the automatic car wash or from a less than stellar wash regiment.



Case in point, I had 3 clients contact me recently about correcting the paint on their vehicles. I immediately made the time to meet with them to inspect their vehicles. Each vehicle was somewhat swirled so I asked each owner what their expectations were. We also went over the finish with high powered light and I trained them how to inspect their finish and what the different types of defects were caused by, how they can be avoided and how they can be corrected. After giving them different opinions on what to expect from a 1, 2 and 3 step process they were giving the choice on what level of correction they’d fell most comfortable going with. In a few of the cases I explained that a good one step polish will offer decent correction with a pretty nice shine and that the remaining marring would only be noticeable under artificial light and/or from certain angles under close full sun inspection. I also gave them another option of doing a multiple step correction on the more visible horizontal panels with only doing a 1 step on the sides. To say they were delighted about my honestly was an understatement.



With another client I couldn’t help to notice their leather interior. I educated them about their leather and the condition it was in. They thought that using an all in one cleaner/conditioner that makes their leather shiny and soft feeling was the right thing to use. I forwarded them a couple of my interior detailing threads and they were immediately sold. It couldn’t have been made possible without offering more than just full correction services.



Bottom line, by not taking the time to coach your clients on their options (it's called upselling folks) rather than being insistent about what you want to do on their vehicles only narrows your audience and your income. I’d much rather do 2 or 3 $300-400 1 steps that take just a few easy hours than 1 $700-800+ multiple step/day correction. If someone is that busy with just doing these "perfection" corrections than more power to them, but if you’re interested in growing your business, it’s time to start thinking outside of the box if that matters at all to you. :think2 :53:

$700-800 for multiple days.................... now who is leaving money on the table?? $75 per hour x 8 = 600 x 2 = $1,200 where most "Full correction jobs really take 20 hours plus in reality.............at least in my shop. So let's review 75.00 per hour x 20 = $1,500.00 mixed in with occasional $150-450 dollar jobs have me doing just fine, but of course if you have MUCH lower overhead then the smaller jobs are going to fit the bill.



Btw full corrections in my shop also include "Full Interior correction" as well thus the time spent factor.Like most pro automotive business models I charge as a time spent basis, just as all mechanical jobs are billed sans the parts and only labor, smaller jobs are considered "Canned jobs" as they are known in the automotive industry where you factor in a pre set time model in the estimate, it is also known as "Menu pricing" which is fine as long as a 30-0% gross profit margin is maintained which is different than mark up from cost and a factor is used.



If one is completing jobs in just a "Few hours" as in let's say 3.5-4.0 hours your average is roughly $114.00 per and I know that "Top quality" work is not being completed by ANYone's standards.

 

[justin30513]

If one is completing jobs in just a "Few hours" as in let's say 3.5-4.0 hours your average is roughly $114.00 per and I know that "Top quality" work is not being completed by ANYone's standards.

My 150.00 details take me 3 hours by myself. I'm getting paid and they keep coming back so I guess I'm up to the customer's standards and that's all that matters.



It's all on how you sell your services. You can do this well if you listen to the customer and not your own ego.

 

[sacdetailing]

$700-800 for multiple days.................... now who is leaving money on the table?? $75 per hour x 8 = 600 x 2 = $1,200 where most "Full correction jobs really take 20 hours plus in reality.............at least in my shop. So let's review 75.00 per hour x 20 = $1,500.00 mixed in with occasional $150-450 dollar jobs have me doing just fine, but of course if you have MUCH lower overhead then the smaller jobs are going to fit the bill.



Btw full corrections in my shop also include "Full Interior correction" as well thus the time spent factor.Like most pro automotive business models I charge as a time spent basis, just as all mechanical jobs are billed sans the parts and only labor, smaller jobs are considered "Canned jobs" as they are known in the automotive industry where you factor in a pre set time model in the estimate, it is also known as "Menu pricing" which is fine as long as a 30-0% gross profit margin is maintained which is different than mark up from cost and a factor is used.



If one is completing jobs in just a "Few hours" as in let's say 3.5-4.0 hours your average is roughly $114.00 per and I know that "Top quality" work is not being completed by ANYone's standards.

Hey guys common! he wasn't talking about all of people! he was just saying to most of the people. if this is working out for you were all very happy. plus you and me are from California and everything is more expensive here unlike other states. even clean 30 bucks an hour is not "little" compared to most of the jobs out there. Hope you got my point and am not trying to be rude. If your like Paul Dalton (he charges 70 bucks an hour) and making money and happy congratulations am happy for you but i cant do that i have different situation just like many of us here. We have to find other ways for making money.

 

[justin30513]

NOBODY'S business model is the same as another business owner. Every area is different. Every advertising budget is too. The wants and needs are different as well. Get what I'm saying here? We are all different!



David was just saying to be open if you're struggling or looking to expand. Bob, you obviously do not fall into either of these categories.....but I do like the breakdown and math.

 

[autoconcierge]

My 150.00 details take me 3 hours by myself. I'm getting paid and they keep coming back so I guess I'm up to the customer's standards and that's all that matters.



It's all on how you sell your services. You can do this well if you listen to the customer and not your own ego.

Have not paid any bills that I have from the bank of "EGO", it is what my customers have come to expect from me. Three hours can do a car that is maintained often, but for any work to really make a difference you need more time than that however I am old/fatness so I am limited I guess.

 

[justin30513]

Have not paid any bills that I have from the bank of "EGO", it is what my customers have come to expect from me. Three hours can do a car that is maintained often, but for any work to really make a difference you need more time than that however I am old/fatness so I am limited I guess.

Just to clarify, when I said EGO, I was talking to all detailers and no one in specific.



I'm sure as time and wear on my body progresses, I will have to take more time to complete a task. This is why I'm hiring and training a manager first. Other employees will come.

 

[gigondaz]

10yrs ago, I started out solo in my own garage+mobile.

Did the usual simple, low-priced jobs for non-enthusiast customers.

They squeezed my *** for the lowest possible price, and lots of explanation needed till my mouth ran dry, and the cars were mostly crappy. Lots of work, and even while working on the car, I kept thinking of the "low-price" + the amount of work needed on these crappy cars. Groan.

But....it was necessary....for mere survival....and the customers certainly got their money's worth!!!!!!



Of course there were the occasional full-correction jobs, but customers would turn to the high-end fellas for it.



My main concern was:

There was no assurance/stability of income.

It was inconsistent/sporadic.

Don't know what's happening next week. Nada. Could be totally quiet....:frown1::frown1:

Or a customer might cancel the appointment...and I've bills to pay.

Can't go on living like this from day to day.



Then, I started my shop, focusing exclusively on high-end jobs, and it took 6mths to build my name.



My high-end customers come back for washes, and then, maintenance detailing every 1mth. I sell them a package + detailing products (which are labelled with owner's name and kept in my shop). Therefore, I'm able to "keep" my customers tied to me, and the maintenance schedule ensures a steady stream of cars coming back to my place consistently and regularly. This kind of "higher quality" customers also recommend other similar type of customers to me. 8mths later, I moved to a newer bigger premise, and hv never looked back.



They are willing/able to pay the high price = Less talking, less explaining, no price haggling.



These are the customers who expect us to clean even the 1.5" thick Merc owners manual + the First Aid Kit and its contents!!!

On such big budget jobs, I personally enjoy working on that car even more as I know the huge price involved and based on the "mechanics" of my detailing package, that car will have to return every month for maintenance.



At this moment, my only objective is to do jobs that will elicit ooohhs and ahhhs from the customer:razz:

 

[justin30513]

10yrs ago, I started out solo in my own garage+mobile.

Did the usual simple, low-priced jobs for non-enthusiast customers.

They squeezed my *** for the lowest possible price, and lots of explanation needed till my mouth ran dry, and the cars were mostly crappy. Lots of work, and even while working on the car, I kept thinking of the "low-price" + the amount of work needed on these crappy cars. Groan.

But....it was necessary....for mere survival....and the customers certainly got their money's worth!!!!!!



Of course there were the occasional full-correction jobs, but customers would turn to the high-end fellas for it.



My main concern was:

There was no assurance/stability of income.

It was inconsistent/sporadic.

Don't know what's happening next week. Nada. Could be totally quiet....:frown1::frown1:

Or a customer might cancel the appointment...and I've bills to pay.

Can't go on living like this from day to day.



Then, I started my shop, focusing exclusively on high-end jobs, and it took 6mths to build my name.



My high-end customers come back for washes, and then, maintenance detailing every 1mth. I sell them a package + detailing products (which are labelled with owner's name and kept in my shop). Therefore, I'm able to "keep" my customers tied to me, and the maintenance schedule ensures a steady stream of cars coming back to my place consistently and regularly. This kind of "higher quality" customers also recommend other similar type of customers to me. 8mths later, I moved to a newer bigger premise, and hv never looked back.



They are willing/able to pay the high price = Less talking, less explaining, no price haggling.



These are the customers who expect us to clean even the 1.5" thick Merc owners manual + the First Aid Kit and its contents!!!

On such big budget jobs, I personally enjoy working on that car even more as I know the huge price involved and based on the "mechanics" of my detailing package, that car will have to return every month for maintenance.



At this moment, my only objective is to do jobs that will elicit ooohhs and ahhhs from the customer:razz:

Love this explanation! You took a problem and solved it. The good thing is, you are in an area that warrants this change. Some aren't though. Some may be and just don't know it. Some here might have to go the other way though. They want to work on the high end cars but there are only so many in their area.....like me. And it's just not the cars.....it's the owners. I have a few high end cars that need a ton of work but the owners do not want to let go of the cash.....and they have it!



You just have to do some demographics and target the market that your area yields. One just can't list their number in Yellow Book and sit by the phone. No matter what your business model it, you have to get off your arse and get in front of people!!!

 

[autoconcierge]

NOBODY'S business model is the same as another business owner. Every area is different. Every advertising budget is too. The wants and needs are different as well. Get what I'm saying here? We are all different!



David was just saying to be open if you're struggling or looking to expand. Bob, you obviously do not fall into either of these categories.....but I do like the breakdown and math.

When making a generalized point with no specific person(s) in mind the above statement would be fine, but we all know this is just not the case here. In 1994 when I started the business I took on everything I could get my hands on, in addition I would also be more flexible with pricing as I was getting established to the customer base in my immediate area and the SF Bay area as a whole.



I had at one time two trucks and three employees as I thought if people were trained properly I could do a "Mini franchise" of myself and expand, thus with the high production I could generate more income and conventional wisdom says this should work, however no matter how much I trained and after going thru over seven different combos of people with every kind of incentive known to man I could not overcome the laziness and other shortcomings the guy's who worked with me had.



We all see the dealerships and the level of work performed irregardless of the marque, IE: high end "Ferrari" or lower cost vehicles the presentation of the new car purchase is not up to par, this is because it is "High production" level work done by ill trained and un-motivated employees. Also I differ in my approach as I could not look myself in the mirror in the morning if I charged way more money while providing work not comenserate with the final invoice, some may feel this is good "Business" and perfectly fine and well........and we all know it is not.



So let's be clear, if you want high production in this occupation you WILL be making compromises in everything, from chemicals to personel to your facility or mobile set-up if applicable. This is the reason most people view this trade as a "Lowend" occupation and pricing is also hard to maintain because a "Correction" or "Detail" is not a permanent situation such as putting on a tire and wheel package or engine modification.



My personality warrants the direction I went in and is not the solution for everyone, as a matter of fact if you have the rescources you can offer both the "Perfection level work" along with one or two step details, but in the past most customers no matter how hard you try to tell them beforehand will still say something like this "Oh....I though you would take care of this/that?" even though you went over EXACTLY what was going to be done, so for me I seek out customers that are looking for someone like me who does more on every job and are fine with knowing that that level of quality is labor entensive with pricing that reflects this.



So enough of the bashing of guys like me, you do not see me posting threads like "For all of you newbies doing cheapo jobs.........you suck in so many words" everyone's demographic is different as Justin said, however a foudation of good skills paired with integrity may not always produce riches but always pays off in reputation which at the end of the day is all you really have, of course you cannot pay bills with "Reputation" but charging more when you do not do more is just wrong....endstop.

 

[sparklescarwash]

I would just like to say for most of us take what u can get. You have to realize the econ is in bad shape. People r losing the houses. We r considered a luxery not a have to.I have been in this buisness a long time seen lots of buisness close. So stay humble.You have to realise if you wont some body will

 

[imported_Ivan Rajic]

Bob, I run my business with the same mindset as you. I never went through a "do anything I can get my hands on" phase and I never had employees, trucks, etc. I am self trained, always worked alone, but sometimes had helpers on interiors, wheels, etc. I also seek out the exact same clients and have been blessed to have them and rarely get contacted by a price shopper. However, here in Chicago, the demand for such quality is nowhere near that of Cali. In some of our richer suburbs, such detailing MAY succeed on a full-time level. I have been lucky enough for detailing to be my 2nd job and still produce a good income, but surviving on my level of detailing alone would be cutting it close to be perfectly honest.



I'm typing all this to let you know that this post makes perfect sense for myself and the current status of my business. I have made a great reputation for myself here in Chicago as well as nationwide (have clients in a few different states) but I am in fact missing out on WAY too much work by charging what I do and working at the level at which I work. Tons of people around Chicago will pay $150-200 for a 1-step polish detail plus interior vacuum, windows, wipedown deal, but they won't hear of anything $250+, which is what I charge. For this reason David's post is a perfect explanation of my status if I were full time detailing and relying on it 100%. The post didn't open up my eyes or anything as I've felt that way for well over a year now and wanted to somehow incorporate an "economy job" to my service arsenal, but it does in a way confirm what I have been thinking.



I don't know the background of David's intentions for this post, but it's a post that directly connects to many of us high end detailers that aren't in an area with enough demand for high quality work, as Justin explained. I don't know David or you personally, but equally have respect for your work online. That said, if you're offended by the post and equally if he meant to offend you, that should all be PM material due to the fact this is a good, informative post for many people.