imported_glfahlc
New member
i was gonna say you spelled mak wrong.... oh and i'm a rotary guy all the way
Are you a Mak or a PC
- Thread starter ISLANDSBEST
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imported_rwisejr
New member
I'm all 3!
I like to start with the rotary and finish with the Flex or PC.
I have all 3 and use which ever best fits the job !!!
Love my rotary, but my cars are in good shape that all I need is a touch up here and there. The new Griot is my favorite machine. Lot's of power, super quiet, minimal vibration, extra brushes and a lifetime guarantee. No DA on today's market can compare. Btw I have a flex 3401, Flex 3403, Makita and a PC.
Todd@RUPES
Just a regular guy
I'm a rotary guy first and foremost and still love the feeling of the old angle grinders. But I also use the PC quite a bit, and my negative feelings towards the PC previously is because I didn't fully understand the complex dynamics of the machine.
imported_User Name
New member
Because I use a G110, I'm going to pretend I know what this means and act like a badass and say that I have major "KB tightness" working with my G110!!! :cornut:
Street Dreams
New member
2 things:
first, you cannot "have" tightness... just accept that things "are" tightness... KB method is tightness, Bentley Brooklands is tightness... get the idea?
And second, I cannot take credit for the word, Bob Willis coined the term and it just something we laughed about when I was working in CA with him a bit this summer... the word stuck.
imported_User Name
New member
I hate getting old, the only tightness I truly get is when I wake up in the morning, the old joints are always suffering from tightness!
Actually, I'm not even that old... just terribly out of date!
In any event...
+1 for KB Tightness!!!
Actually, I'm not even that old... just terribly out of date!
In any event...
+1 for KB Tightness!!!
imported_User Name
New member
Bryan,
You are one of the guys whose detail jobs I really look forward to because your work is top shelf... so I MUST ask you...
In all honesty... based upon what you wrote above, do you not think that the quality of your work has suffered because you put down the rotary or are you producing as good (or better) work with the PC using the KBM?
Obviously, as a no-good G110 using knucklehead, I would LOVE to think that one day, just maybe one day, I might be able to get rotary results with my DA.
I have not come accross any defects that I can't remove with a PC using the KBM. The surbuf pads are what I used for heavy defects.
There have been a few times when I have looked at defects and thought, well today is the end of the ride for the KBM via a PC.
Take this 08 Vette for example.
I figured I was going to have to break out the rotary with edge black (heavy cut) wool and Strada 1000 aka rocks in a bottle. But no, the surbuf pads via a PC cleaned up this mess in no time.
Street Dreams
New member
Do you honestly think a guy like Bryan would sacrifice quality for the sake of saving time or ease of use? I always look at his work and each car looks as good as the last, plus I think his detailed understanding of the KB method, pad priming etc gives him a little edge to produce flawless paint. Im still new to it so I have more to learn and more paints to experiment on.
I look at it like so... Porsche Turbo vs. GT3... okay general consensus is that any Porsche turbo is more powerful than any GT3 built to date from Porsche.
Yet where porsche turbo has the edge in power, the GT3 model makes up for in handling due to balance and weight.
On the street in a line the Turbo will most definitely win (similar to how generally we all assume the rotary will out correct any PC, DA machine)
.... while it probably can due to sheer power WE DONT HAVE TO use it to get the same results
Think of using the KB method like being a very very skilled GT3 track driver.. technically your car is slower than the Turbo Porsche but you make up for it in other ways (the lighter weight and handling, whereas the Turbo is sluggish)
We cannot make the same super slow passes on paint with the rotary as we do using the KB method on a DA... thats an advantage!
Dont think in generalities, dont think because its a rotary... its automatically better. In some cases sure, but there are ways around the perception that rotary is king. KB methodology = super skilled GT3 track driver.. yea your car is less powerful but its more precise and you can drive it better!
Do I make any sense?
That is so true. Good analogies.
Personally, whenever possible, I use the DA + KBM for compounding. This combination packs amazing correction power, but yields NO buffer trails, no holograms, and no compound-induced swirls! The result is a very smooth finish with almost 90-100% deep swirls removed. The key to the Kevin Brown Method is to take advantage of a certain abrasive technology and adjust some user techniques to enhance it. If you try to work your Dual Action buffer in the same manner you use a rotary (5lb pressure, 2-3" per second), you are not going to achieve correction any major corrections. The key to the KBM is slow passes and very high pressure, allowing the non-diminishing abrasives to do its job slowly. Sadly, the KBM is not endorsed by Meguiar's. Some people even put down this method and dismiss its abilities, based on their "years of experience in detailing".
After I do my compounding using the KBM, I would then proceed to using my rotary for fine polishing or jeweling using a very soft finishing pad to take advantage of the diminishing abrasives fine polish. This combination works great. The KBM + DA takes advantage of SMAT and produces little to no buffer trails and holograms, while the rotary takes advantage of the ultra fine polishes to jewel the paint surface. I am obviously not dismissing the rotary's abilities to produce an ultra smooth surface.
Honestly, some of the pros on "the other forums" keep emphasizing on what the rotary CAN do and what the DA CANNOT do. Sure, for some very severe deep swirls, the job will call for a rotary and a wool pad. But if the defects CAN be removed using a DA and some special techniques, why NOT use a DA? In most cases, with the KBM, correction power rivals that of the rotary, MINUS the buffer trails and holograms.
If the detailer can remove defects using the DA effectively in a timely manner, without inducing some of the byproducts of the rotary, who is going to care? Although unlikely, if a detailer could use purely witchcraft or magic to detail a car more efficiently, WHY NOT? As long as the defects are effectively removed, why not use the DA?
Some of the "experienced" with so and so "years of experience with the rotary" always preach on the internets about the shortcomings of the DA. They ridicule people for trying to perform a certain task using the DA.
I am not making any implications that the rotary is an incapable tool. I use it some times for some tougher tasks where a wool is required. I also use the rotary for all my jeweling with some ultra fine polishes.
For defect corrections, whenever possible, I still opt for the DA + KBM. Why? It packs amazing correction power that rivals the rotary, but WITHOUT the buffer trails, holograms, and heat. The KBM is a real game changer in the detailing realm.
Oh, by the way, KBM does not only work with M105 or M205. That seems to be the general perception. You can adapt SwirlX or Ultimate Compound with the KBM to adjust your cutting power. SwirlX and Ultimate Compound both utilize non-diminishing abrasives and KBM works great with them. That's the beauty of the KBM. Because the method calls for a DA, it does not require a product that is designed for the rotary.
imported_User Name
New member
Great info guys. Thanks.
imported_RaskyR1
New member
Very Good analogies Dave! :cornut:
Junebug
JAFO
"the buffer trails, holograms, and heat" -what about the splatter, the compound in every place you DON"T want it in, the wool fuzz floating around, and the oh sh!t, hit a piece of trim,,, yeah, you can tape up everything, but that's a step that I'd just as soon minimize if I can.
Exactly
I am extremely surprised that the use of the Surbuf pads is still not yet popularized. People are not willing to try new things I guess. One guy on "the other forum" thinks that Surbuf is sandpaper. Yes, he DID say that when somebody suggested him to use the Surbuf pads.
However there are some cases where a wool is absolutely necessary. When that is the case, I'd grab the 3.5" PFW to pick up the deeper RIDS that the Surbuf pads couldn't remove after two passes.
Dennn, I hear you on the surbuf.
Bret and I did this S65 yesterday. You know the hard ceramic clear.
Surbuf/M105/PC KBM
White classic flat LC/M205/PC KBM
bryan, i always look forward to seeing your work. impressive as always... :thumbup: