Are we actually regressing using coatings instead of waxs?

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estcstm3

New member
Hi All,

got back into detailing again heavy (enthusiast) this last year and went to detail fest. Got overwhelmed with all of the new coatings and started researching. My personal LSP experience is coming from older step 1/2/3 megs products. P21s, Duragloss TPP 105, and Wolfgangs 3.0, and Bilt Hamber auto balm (Strange stuff). my gloss rankings are as follows, P21s, then TTP, then Wolfgangs. WGS3.0 is too expensive when TTP looks the same goes on just as easy and lasts longer. It just doesnt smell as good.

Of all three the P21s gives such a great look, beads (initially).... just gives a great look. I have not seen many coated cars in person, but what i have heard is that they dont look as good. So are folks buying into an idea more than are result? I know coatings have vastly supior durability but is it really such a chore to recoat P21s again in afew months? I actually do see the need for the coating more on a daily driver than a garage/exotic/showcar. Think how much subconsciously we are all striving for gloss and shine and the best producer of that has been around and is still around and is affordable? Do we psychology want to assume new technology, that is more expensive, has to be superior?

I feel a properly corrected high end good weather garage car would be much better off with a wax..... Opinions As most car correction is see now on nice high end cars are coated... is that just for profit margin?

The flip side of this is that you believe the look of a coating is superior to a wax or high quality sealant. but that doesn`t make for a fun thread... =)
 
I think some coatings do look as good or better than waxes. I also think that the additional hardness provided by coatings helps in minimizing the damage to even the so called show Cars. That being from constant wiping and dusting.
 
Does that constant wiping or dusting go away with a coated car? Dust will still form on hydrophobic surface, hell dust settles on any and everything, except a point. So from your standpoint you believe if you had the same car cloned freshely corrected, one gets a wax of your choice, (P21s, sovernean, dodo juice, etc...) and the other a coating you would from pick the coated concerning gloss and shine?

Kind of like a blind test which do you choose, would be interesting at a car show to prep two of the same cars the same way but top differently and see which people gravitate towards without know what each is topped with.
 
It’s all just an opinion as to what looks better. As far as the dust, I find Cars that are coated stay cleaner longer due to the fact they don’t have oils or polymers the dust sticks to. And as far as wiping, they don’t scratch as easy .
 
Most would consider waxes as dust-attractors and coatings as not dust-attractors (so they don’t totally repel dust, but get less and stay cleaner longer.). Sealants being somewhere in the middle, often closer to the coating dust resistance.

My personal opinions:
All 3 types have great appearance properties, in different ways. Generally speaking, waxes probably rank as my favorite gloss/shine/appearance. I do also love the shiny, cool look that today’s sealants can provide, and also the glassy, sharpness of coatings/SiO2’s.

Due to realities of dust/dirt/self-cleaning and longevity, I typically use waxes only in fall/winter/early spring. I use sealants or SiO2 coating-lites during the late spring/summer/early fall due to carnauba’s poor durability in heat and dust attraction. If it weren’t for these weaknesses of wax, I would likely use them more often. I want my car to look nice for at least a couple days after a wash or QD... rather than see dust settle within hours.

I do not use real coatings except for wheels and glass. This is because I enjoy touching the paint often and I don’t want to go through all the prep work and high-spot leveling associated with coatings when I know I will want the LSP changed after 5-6 months. Therefore I like pseudo-coatings such as PBL Synergy, Dodo SN Hybrid Nano, Reload, 10 Min Sealant, BF SiO2 Spray, etc., but not so much the more finicky-but-durable traditional coatings.

These are my preferences today, in July 2018.
 
"" Does that constant wiping or dusting go away with a coated car?""

Yes, it does for a period of time, and all a coated vehicle will need is a good wash with a soap (Carpro Reset) made to help remove the gunk that sticks to everything outside..
In my experiences with my own coated vehicles, I see them stay cleaner a lot longer..
Dan
 
I dont doubt the longevity but do you really wash or mess with your car less? Is it substantially cleaner? So if it were to rain on your car during the week you really wouldnt wash it that weekend because its coated? I just am trying to separate how people actually use their cars and how people imagine they will use their cars.
 
We tell our clients to wash the car when it’s dirty, you still have to maintain a coated car, but you don’t have to be as persistent in most cases. Also, say a bird dropping is on the car and leaves an etching, when polishing that out on a coated car, you remove coating and not more paint.
 
estcstm3 said:
I dont doubt the longevity but do you really wash or mess with your car less? Is it substantially cleaner? So if it were to rain on your car during the week you really wouldnt wash it that weekend because its coated? I just am trying to separate how people actually use their cars and how people imagine they will use their cars.
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If it rains, I would be washing regardless of type of LSP. The difference for me is in the spring/summertime, when that extra layer of dust would bother me on a daily basis with a wax and probably cause me to bring out a QD or waterless wash almost daily; versus there being very little dust for 2, 3, 4+ days with some sealants or a SiO2 product. For those cases I can go that long without touching the car.

I should note that there are times of the year when this is not possible, such as May in the northeast when pollen covers the car daily no matter the LSP, and I live with it... or periods where it rains every other day for a week or two. Those are times that I would be bothered by the dirtiness of my car and either put up with it or waterless/rinseless/2 bucket very often if time allows.
 
Coatings are not for the hobbyist detailer. Those of us who are not professional detailers do this because we love working on our cars. Coatings are for people that don`t really enjoy or have the time to devote to the more frequent waxing, polishing and general caring required of non coated cars. For them coatings are a no brainer. But for those of us who have the time and the mind set to work on our cars, get enjoyment out of that work rather than see it as a chore, I say waxing/sealants/QDs and all the other stuff that goes with traditional care is the way to go. I would go one step further and say the more frequent attention is a form of therapy for some of us, even pride. By their very nature coatings are meant to be relatively maintenance free for a year or more. I would go nuts if I could not experiment with new stuff every couple months or so. Doing that would defeat the purpose of coatings. Forget the shine, durability, ease of application, etc. - it is the actual rubbing on my car that turns me on!
 
estcstm3 said:
I dont doubt the longevity but do you really wash or mess with your car less? Is it substantially cleaner? So if it were to rain on your car during the week you really wouldnt wash it that weekend because its coated? I just am trying to separate how people actually use their cars and how people imagine they will use their cars.
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Yes, I wash more infrequently and mess with the cars less..
Yes, they are both substantially cleaner between washes..

Last time it rained this year, I was in town with a friend from Seattle, at the In-N-Out Burger.. He had never been to one, as they are not in WA..
It rained really hard on the way back home, drove surface roads, then the freeway the 31 miles home, raining all the way.

My Black Grand Cherokee looked none the worse the next day, and I didnt even bother drying it off; we worked on his 2003 BMW 540iT M5 Wagon clone all night..
The coating took care of getting most all the dirt off the Jeep, and it looked pretty darn good..

Those that Detail for a living and/or are retired, etc., will probably want a Coating, so they have more time to devote to the family, job, retirement, kids, grandkids, etc...
I coated all 5 our our vehicles at once, way, way, back in 2010, because among other things, I wanted to free up time..

I know it`s hard to see this when you are in your younger years; we were all there too, 49 years ago or so.. But now we see the value in freeing up time for other Priorities...
And yes, we were going to the Park on weekends back then, and waxing our just washed Camaro`s Mustangs, etc., just like you guys are doing something along those lines today.. :)
Dan F
 
For me, a coating allows me to be lazier about washing while maintaining an overall appearance that meets my `good enough` standards for the greatest length of time with the least amount of effort.

Figure that it *may* also give me some slight protection from poor wash habits as well.

If car is mostly dusty/covered in pollen and a big rain is coming, I`ll often pull out a garage and let mother nature wash it, meeting my `good enough` standard with no effort.

Also don`t worry about bird bombs with the expediency I used to.
 
I stayed away from coatings for a long time - this is the first year I started using them. I had the same mindset as most on this forum - I like working on my or customer`s car, wax/sealant is easy to apply, affordable and (arguably) looks better. This year I have a coating on all 3 of my household`s cars, I`m sold on coatings. Here`s some reasons why.

- I work from home and Uber it to the airport when I travel. My `daily driver` with a coating will remain 90% dust free and honestly can go weeks without needing touched. When it does need to be shined up, a quick rinseless wash and follow-up with the coating`s boost spray and done. There are times where I`ll just do the wheels (coatings help there, but brake dust is brake dust) and good to go.

- Now that I have a small, but growing detail business - needed a demo/look at your options car. Not only does the car show off the coating, but it gives credibility to your skill and service you are providing to your customers

- My wife drives a black SUV - even she mentions how much longer the car looks good. Again - clean up is much easier, whatever method you use to wash

- The toy car always looks good. Recently took a ride in the Wisconsin back roads, 4 hour round trip. When I got home, using a rinseless wash, the bugs and tar came off the car like an egg in a non stick pan.

For my personal cars, I`m sold. The cars stay looking the way I want them too with much less effort. It is a tough sell to customers due to the cost. Most of my clientele lease their cars. They want them looking great, but it is not worth the cost to coat when in two years it is on to the next car.
 
jatleson said:
There are times where I`ll just do the wheels (coatings help there, but brake dust is brake dust) and good to go.
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For me, wheel coatings (and tires) have been *the* biggest time savers during a wash. Used to take an hour alone to clean wheels, apply tire dressings. Lots nasty `wheel only` towels, brushes, buckets, applicators and slingin` tire dressings.

Now, just a quick spray with hose/light wipe...good to go.
 
I find the ease at which debris comes off the paint during washing for a coated vehicle as a significant benefit vs wax/sealants. Most things like debris, bird crap, etc simply glide off the paint with the minimalist of pressure possible; dramatically reducing the chance of damaging the paint during washing.

Dust would be my next big advantage as it takes a lot longer for the build up of dust to reach the point of making washing it necessary.

Lastly, to me it really isn`t that much harder to do vs applying a wax or a sealant. You are going over the car when you apply a wax or sealant like product anyway, and then buffing it... very similar to applying a coating. The only extra work to me is the prep that you basically have to do before applying a coating.
 
Those of us who would *really* struggle to see any high spots during application, and who do (only) spot-correction, and who don`t experience the kinds of issues coatings are supposed to address, are likely to stick with conventional LSPs.

Not hating on coatings, I use `em on some wheels and understand completely who others like them. But the *ONLY* difference I`ve experienced compared to my usual LSP is that the coatings don`t need redone quite as often.

Great solution for a number of problems, for those who have the problems. Potential source of (new) problems for those who are doing fine without `em though.

And yeah...looks are purely subjective. estcstm3 loves the look of P21s, and I can understand why....but it`s one of the very few LSPs that I hated the looks of *so much* that I stripped it off my car (just looked wrong to me on the Jag, somebody else would`ve loved it).
 
As far as the marketing of coatings, yes. Overblown ad copy is nothing new in the detailing world though. I think this is coming around though as we have big name detailers like Larry Kosilla warning against the "superman" characteristics coatings promise and quality articles by Mike Phillips like "The case against multi-year ceramic paint coatings." I`ll argue that most people around here understand their limitations.

Waxes, sealants, coatings; different options for different situations with none of them being wrong.
 
shortspark said:
Coatings are not for the hobbyist detailer. Those of us who are not professional detailers do this because we love working on our cars. Coatings are for people that don`t really enjoy or have the time to devote to the more frequent waxing, polishing and general caring required of non coated cars. For them coatings are a no brainer. But for those of us who have the time and the mind set to work on our cars, get enjoyment out of that work rather than see it as a chore, I say waxing/sealants/QDs and all the other stuff that goes with traditional care is the way to go. I would go one step further and say the more frequent attention is a form of therapy for some of us, even pride. By their very nature coatings are meant to be relatively maintenance free for a year or more. I would go nuts if I could not experiment with new stuff every couple months or so. Doing that would defeat the purpose of coatings. Forget the shine, durability, ease of application, etc. - it is the actual rubbing on my car that turns me on!
Click to expand...
In your opinion.
 
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