Are M105/M205 the "Flavor of the Moment?"

Jakerooni said:
The reason I think they might be a FOTM is because we've all used Non-dimishing abrasives before (anyone that has been doing this for awhile anyways) as the paints changed on the cars and the clears got softer we qucikly dumped the "Rocks in a jar" product and moved quickly to diminishing abrasives that broke down easier and quicker. Now the paints have moved back to the super hard clears and such and voila we've conviently switched back to NDA's are they good products?
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They didn't just go back to NDAs. They took NDAs to a previously unattainable level. Infiniti and JB BMW paint is very soft and 105 & 205 work well on them also. Not all "new" cars have hard paint. 105 & 205 work on all paint types, not just hard. It's not like clears got hard and Megs said ok, let's go back to NDAs. The thing that makes them the great products that they are, is not so much the non-diminishing abrasives, it's the size of the abrasive. SMAT has enabled Megs to raise the bar. You can't even compare them to the old non-diminishing abrasives. The finish, cut and work time of the original 105 is incredible for a compound. 105 (original) really is a game changer. It isn't the FOTM. It is leaps and bounds better than the other compounds on the market. Will something better come along eventually? Yep. Technology will progress as it always does, but I don't think it will be anytime soon. I hope it is though. Hopefully all of the polish companies step up their game to compete, as we will all benefit.
 
David Fermani said:
I like using 105 alot via rotary and have yet to try it with a PC (waiting for the right opportunity). I'm wondering what all the non-Meg's users (Gloss-It/Menzerna/Optimum/etc) are thinking about their products and how they are superior/inferior in comparison. I guess until I try 205, I'll be sticking to Menzerna as my final polish for the pure fact that I love the way they make the finish look. I also wonder how different things would be 10-15 years ago if 105 was on the market.
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#105 cuts harder than anything that Optimum currently has but if I am working in the sun, I tend to follow #105 with Optimum products instead of #205 since #205 has a nasty tendency to weld itself to the paint (via rotary) when working on anything more than warm surfaces.



What is interesting about #105 is you can often follow it (working via rotary) by just changing to a finishing pad and sticking with #105 to cut out the hazing and holograms.
 
mmm poor choice of words I guess. I really wasn't trying to insinuate that the NDA's of today are the same ol same ol of those years ago. Of course they've evolved tremendously. But in all seriousness people this same argument happens at least once or twice a year about a new "Game changing" product... (reminds me of the old Zanio v. optimum v. whatever else came along arguments that seemed to run rampant on this site a while back) 105 and 205 are great products I'm sure (just put my order in for both of them a few minutes ago) But I really don't see these being the end all product of products... Almost word for word has been said about other products that are now nothing more than fleeting memories and hardly even talked about. So we'll see. I'm not downing the effectivness of the product at all. But I do think something will come along (probably sooner than later) that will effectively knock this combo out into limbo.... Something always does.
 
Jakerooni said:
mmm poor choice of words I guess. I really wasn't trying to insinuate that the NDA's of today are the same ol same ol of those years ago. Of course they've evolved tremendously. But in all seriousness people this same argument happens at least once or twice a year about a new "Game changing" product... (reminds me of the old Zanio v. optimum v. whatever else came along arguments that seemed to run rampant on this site a while back) 105 and 205 are great products I'm sure (just put my order in for both of them a few minutes ago) But I really don't see these being the end all product of products... Almost word for word has been said about other products that are now nothing more than fleeting memories and hardly even talked about. So we'll see. I'm not downing the effectivness of the product at all. But I do think something will come along (probably sooner than later) that will effectively knock this combo out into limbo.... Something always does.
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You will see the first time you use 105 on something very deep. No product is ever the ""end all"" but 105 is way ahead of anything you have in your posession.
 
Lumadar said:
Poor word choice- replace horrible with over rated.

Is there a chance that something will be made that will be similar to M105 some day and we will like that more? Sure, of course it is possible. But considering Meguiar's holds the patent on SMAT technology...
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I think you're guilty of another poor word choice...the only place I can find on the whole internet that says that SMAT is patented is you. I think you meant to say proprietary, which is much different than patented or patent-pending.
 
tdekany said:
You will see the first time you use 105 on something very deep. No product is ever the ""end all"" but 105 is way ahead of anything you have in your posession.
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Can't wait for a side by side then with a few things I do have in my arsenal. Hopefully 105 will let me retire a couple of things.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
I think you're guilty of another poor word choice...the only place I can find on the whole internet that says that SMAT is patented is you. I think you meant to say proprietary, which is much different than patented or patent-pending.
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Actually, I'll stand by my word choice. The internet isn't the place where I found that out. I do recall specifically hearing they had exclusive rights for X amount of years- which is something that comes from a patent.
 
Lumadar said:
Actually, I'll stand by my word choice. The internet isn't the place where I found that out. I do recall specifically hearing they had exclusive rights for X amount of years- which is something that comes from a patent.
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"Exclusive rights" doesn't require a patent.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
"Exclusive rights" doesn't require a patent.
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It might not be a patent...if it isn't, the net effect is the same as having one.



Just curious, why does it matter? You seem really hung up on this detail :tumblewee
 
Lumadar said:
It might not be a patent...if it isn't, the net effect is the same as having one.



Just curious, why does it matter? You seem really hung up on this detail :tumblewee
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You made a statement that there will be no competition for this polish for(ever) since it is patented. The "net effect" is not at all the same if it isn't. It may be that an abrasives company had developed this proprietary technology and signed an exclusive agreement with Meg's (which would mean that they would sell it only to Meg's for the proscribed period). That doesn't mean that another abrasives company can't come up with a similar or identical technology and sell it to someone else, since it appears there is no patent protecting the technology. Besides which the "excusivity" may only be for a few years.



That doesn't mean 105/205 aren't great products, I just disagree with the characterization that everyone else that makes polishes should just close up shop because of them.



Maybe I seem hung up on this because I understand the difference between "patents", "exclusive rights", and "proprietary" technology, so it bugs me when the terms are used interchangeably, just as many members might be bugged if a member used the words "polish", "compound", and "glaze" interchangeably, and then said it didn't matter.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
You made a statement that there will be no competition for this polish for(ever) since it is patented. The "net effect" is not at all the same if it isn't. It may be that an abrasives company had developed this proprietary technology and signed an exclusive agreement with Meg's (which would mean that they would sell it only to Meg's for the proscribed period). That doesn't mean that another abrasives company can't come up with a similar or identical technology and sell it to someone else, since it appears there is no patent protecting the technology. Besides which the "excusivity" may only be for a few years.



That doesn't mean 105/205 aren't great products, I just disagree with the characterization that everyone else that makes polishes should just close up shop because of them.



Maybe I seem hung up on this because I understand the difference between "patents", "exclusive rights", and "proprietary" technology, so it bugs me when the terms are used interchangeably, just as many members might be bugged if a member used the words "polish", "compound", and "glaze" interchangeably, and then said it didn't matter.
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I didn't directly say that there will never be competition...I wouldn't have said that because I do know that there is a set time (years) that the exclusivity is going to exist. I re-read my post and see that I wasn't terribly clear on that, but I definitely did not say they will have the rights to it forever.



I definitely don't agree with the characterization that everyone else should close up shop either- did you think I was saying that? :think:



I'm sorry for using the wrong word... as I said before, "It might not be a patent...if it isn't, the net effect is the same as having one."



Splitting hairs at this point... :nixweiss
 
Good thread.



I use 105 most of the time and really enjoy it. It cuts very well and the finish is really tough to beat. There are times that I have to switch back to 3M Extra Cut. But every time I do that I get bummed out at the mess I have to clean up.



I like the old fomula much better but understand that Meg's had to reach the DA community. Even though the old fomula worked just fine with a DA.



There will be a product that comes out in the future that improves on what Meg's did with 105. Right now there are chemists breaking down 105 as we speak. It is just the nature of the business.



We have come a long way since turtle wax rubbing compound (they still sell the stuff.)



But the best part of this thread is the "heck yea" by Jake. You just kind of want to hang out with someone that will actually put "heck yea" in a post
 
LOL I'm sure it's pretty clear that I've never been part of the "Upper crust" of society LOL. Just a good ol' boy at heat. Even with the engineering degree and all the suit and ties hanging in the closet..



But anytime anyone wants to hang out I'm always game.
 
Has anyone used these products on Lexus paints? If so what results were achieved and what advice could you share for someone using them with a PC.
 
fergnation said:
Good thread.



I use 105 most of the time and really enjoy it. It cuts very well and the finish is really tough to beat. There are times that I have to switch back to 3M Extra Cut. But every time I do that I get bummed out at the mess I have to clean up.



I like the old fomula much better but understand that Meg's had to reach the DA community. Even though the old fomula worked just fine with a DA.



There will be a product that comes out in the future that improves on what Meg's did with 105. Right now there are chemists breaking down 105 as we speak. It is just the nature of the business.



We have come a long way since turtle wax rubbing compound (they still sell the stuff.)



But the best part of this thread is the "heck yea" by Jake. You just kind of want to hang out with someone that will actually put "heck yea" in a post
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Exactly... Burgers on the barbie, a six of Bud in the cooler, wearing wife-beater T-shirts while waxing the car. It's gonna be a great summer...Heck ya!



Back on topic for a sec...105 is now a staple product for me, but even staples are subject to being replaced; 105 replaced PG, OC, and HTEC as my staple compounds. If (when?) a better product than 105 comes out, things could change again.
 
Back from the dead!



The reason why I originally started this thread was due to this statement who was made by a spokesperson of a very large detail supply company. Things that make you go hmm...
 
gmblack3 said:
Things that make you go hmm...
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:werd:



The thing is, with constant development going on at various levels it would probably be safe to say that 90% of products out there are "flavor of the moment" until the next newest/greatest offering comes along.
 
Nothing but a paid mouth piece that has no benchtime at hands on detailing other then what he reads on forums. If you look up flavor of the month or internet detailer in the dictionary you'd see his picture. I remember when he used to hate on Blackfire, but now recommends it because his company sells it. (all this is my opinion of course).
 
David Fermani said:
Nothing but a paid mouth piece that has no benchtime at hands on detailing other then what he reads on forums. If you look up flavor of the month or internet detailer in the dictionary you'd see his picture. I remember when he used to hate on Blackfire, but now recommends it because his company sells it. (all this is my opinion of course).
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I just dont see how someone like that can have/add any value to a company.
 
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