Application of Wax by Hand Massage.. feedback

[quote name='Bence']Accumulator, your last excuse will (or could) be a thing of the past, because even Paul Dalton has switched from bare hands to applicators when applying Royale and Vintage, and he says that he is using FAR LESS products and MORE EVEN layers with applicators... QUOTE]



If you refer to my post then you most likely this will be b/c he doesnt want to stand around at the end of a detail for 3 hrs for a final wipe to get any spots where oils have appeared.



I contacted Zymol after i saw him do this on a black BMW (i think 3 series) and there nice enough folks and while they dont say its bad to apply with the app. they did say (many times!!) they this product was designed to be applied only by hand. When i asked if it obsorbed oils to reduce time wasted later waiting around they simply said every detail was different. I guess they side stepped it but made it clear they were not endorsing the use of an applicator for optimum results.



Geoff
 
Accumulator said:
[quote name='lbls1']



Hold it, I thought you needed to use that for optimal Estate Glaze results?!?



What're you using instead for your penultimate product if not HD Cleanse?



FWIW, way back in the day Irene (at TOL) and I discussed HD Cleanse vs. Pinnacle PCL and at the time I didn't discern any meaningful difference between the two that would indicate PCL being inappropriate for this use.
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Nah!!!!!!! Just say "NO" to fillers lol!!!!



J/k. Zymol recommends HD Cleanse because it is my view that they gear the application of their waxes to be done primarily by hand. HD Cleanse is a cleaner-glaze that is geared more towards hand application (although pc application is possible with HD Cleanse).



The HD Cleanse primarily functions as a paint cleaner; Thus it was my decision that since I used several polishes to prep the paint, that my objective would be reached with my selected team of polishes. I am (I know I said this before somewhere) thinking of doing either a very mild or a non-abrasive prep next year, depending on how good I can keep the car out of trouble; If I do mild polishes then I may consider using HD Cleanse.



To answer your question: I found great success with Sonus' SFX polish series, and a very good pre wax prep provided by their lightweight Acrylic Glanz.
 
Bence and lbls1- Thanks for the info. For some reason I really do find the Zymol topics interesting, heh heh, wish it weren't so ;)



I thought the heat from one's hands was necessary to prevent micromarring/ensure proper consistency of product?



lbls1- Heh heh, easy for *you* to just say "no" to fillers, but I'm dealing with early-'80s ss metallic paints, can't do much correction on them or they won't be original for very long ;) That's still one of my sticking points- with prep being the big factor in *any* detail, when the paint simply can't be corrected I can't help but wonder if the subtle differences in LSPs are gonna matter :nixweiss



Oh sure, the way to find out would be to buy some Vintage and see if it looks great (and if not I'll have an intersting ~$1700 paperweight).



And no, the ones with good enough finishes (S8 and MPV) are far too big for me to use that stuff on, life's too short!



Yeah, I kinda figured that HD Cleanse could work by PC (the Pinnacle PCL sure does) but people say it's a real PIA to buff if you overwork it so I'd be leery.



But *you* are saying that any good pre-LSP prep is gonna work OK and not compromise that presumably incredible EG look, huh? Hm....an EG over top of PCL or 1Z Pro MP :think:



SteelWind101- That whole bit about rebuffing the emerging oils isn't exactly appealing to me either..but I can maybe chalk it up as "the price one has to pay". More for me to consider...
 
Yes Accumulator. Not to contradict Zymol, but their waxes are the focal point of their product line. If there was any product that could be called stellar, the EGWaxes would definitely come to mind as an example. I have had great success (even if I say so myself) with using a variety of cleaning polishes, rather than the HD Cleanse (and I actually used hd cleanse last year!). To me, the zymols have the most violent reaction on the pure paint. Now, although hd cleanse has fillers, it is supposed to render the paint clean and free of lsps and residue. Its a way to offer hand detailers an opportunity to render the finish clean and smooth b4 the zymol without necessarily going to a rotary.



Subtle differences...........I thought the same things years ago Accumulator when I was really dumbfounded at the insane prices some of the Zymol waxes were asking. It is really a difference that I would not be able to convince you of just by describing it. When the EGZ is handled right, the difference between it and some other lsps could be nothing short of astounding. You'll see.....



Edit: I'm not recommending that you go out and spend 2k however. What you could do, though (I know you've heard me say this....) is to try one zymol wax, such as Carbon.........with one heck of a southpaw punch for the price, and see if it produces a noticeable difference. And yes, I was actually wondering why the hd cleanse was a bit harder to buff off than I expected..........after the pc application......lol!!!!
 
lbls1- Thanks for the added info, even if it's a bit heretical, Zymol-wise :D



If I decide to try one of their waxes (and who knows when the Jag or the RX-7 will ever be ready for LSPing :o sure doesn't look like this year...) I want to try an EG. I know plenty of people in the Jag club who use their lesser waxes (use 'em properly? :nixweiss ) and to be honest I don't think they look nearly as good as my results with Souveran (single stage) or UPP (b/c).
 
lbls1 said:
Edit: I'm not recommending that you go out and spend 2k however. What you could do, though (I know you've heard me say this....) is to try one zymol wax, such as Carbon.........with one heck of a southpaw punch for the price, and see if it produces a noticeable difference.
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I noticed at the local store the other day that they are selling the low-end Zymols in 4oz tubs instead of the usual 8oz. For sure I saw Creme and Carbon for $40CAD (4oz). Perhaps an email to Zymol direct might yield 4oz Concours and maybe even Destiny :nixweiss Hmmmmm... :idea
 
..................................as long as it brings in the results Accumulator, then 'Its all good!' Lol!!!!



You'll see soon enough lol!!!!!!!!!!
 
I personally wouldn't use it by hand, but that's just me.



Waxes and other detailing chemicals (that I'm guessing have solvents), are very rough on my hands. If I don't wear gloves, the skin on my hands will be completely void of oil (very tight and dry) for many days, then peel a lot after that... a lot.



It isn't 100% better with gloves, but I guess I should be wearing thicker gloves than I'm using. However, its 98% I'd say! The only problem with gloves is that my hand is so wet after I take them off - from sweat.
 
Yea, I don't like gloves because of that reason as well. However, if I were to apply something with solvents with my bare hands, I'd definitely go for the gloves. But if it's something like Zymol, it might even condition your hands!
 
lbls1 said:
The wax should be a pure carnauba. I say this because the majority of waxes on the market are cleaner waxes, which contain agents (some non abrasive, and some slightly abrasive) that strip dirt and contaminants. The pure carnauba will be the best product that will not strip or scour your paint surface, which could be induced by direct hand pressure.
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just wanted to ask; are you suggesting rubbing PURE CARNAUBA onto paintwork, because it is harder than concrete and would not micromarr but completely key any paintwork i have ever seen.



carnauba content is a very sticky point and i don't want to shift the focus of the thread, i was just curious.



for our waxes, we recommend that an applicator be used for the hard waxes because of the nature of the beast, it is harder. the application pad gives a much smoother thinner wax layer with better results overall. as for the soft waxes, i go all the way by hand, as mentioned before here, it gives me that up close and personal feeling with the cars, and gets you close enough to be completely immersed in the wafting smell of tropical fruit. the only thing i will say is, when sometimes i have missed a spot of tar or paint correction, being that close makes it impossible to miss and that means i have to stop and go back and redo a smaller area to get an all over finish - this has been frustrating to me in the past.
 
theDodo said:
just wanted to ask; are you suggesting rubbing PURE CARNAUBA onto paintwork, because it is harder than concrete..
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No, he's referring to "straight" waxes, ones with no abrasives. Specifically (knowing lbls1 ;) ) he was probably referring to Zymol Vintage.
 
Yarn...oops..



I was referring to a pure carnauba wax, in particular the highly saturated Carnauba concentrate that is featured in Zymol's EG line of waxes. The EG wax's instructions strictly emphasize that the application should be done by hand.



The raw, unmanufactured carnauba extract from trees (is this what you meant?) would be unsuitable (and quite abrasive) for applying to your paint without the industry's method of emulsification into a consumer wax.



................................Still waiting Accumulator buddy!!!!!!!!! lol!!!!
 
lbls1 said:
Yarn...oops.............Still waiting Accumulator buddy!!!!!!!!! lol!!!!
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Me too! I haven't even *seen* my Jag in at least six months and I haven't touched the RX-7 (except to roll it around the shop out of my way) in a lot longer than that :o When I have time to work on the vehicles I have to clean up the daily drivers...
 
Well..........I have to admit Accumulator friend...........you are very good at putting me........and Zymol.......off huh!?!?!?!



One day though.....................though I may be old and gray..........I will hear you say..........WOW!!!!!



(really trying not to laugh hard but....)bwhahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!
 
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