anyone have a matrix of which products to use in certain circumstances?

I

imported_thecarguy

New member
It would be great if there were a matrix (chart) telling you which products to use if the paint is in this or that condition. Something like:



____________________Dark Paint______Light Paint



minor swirls__________FP, AIO________AIO, Carnuba



deep swirls__________IP, FP, AIO______IP, FP, AOI, Carnuba







Something like this, if you can imagine a chart directing you to which products to use under certain paint conditions and circumstances.



This is meant to sort of encapsulate someone's experience as best it can, granted there is not substitute for experience but this can start a newbie off in the right direction.



This forum certainly has the collective wisdom to generate this type of thing.



Edit: I will create one if there's enough interest AND you provide your favorite processes for the following:



1. Light paint - minor swirls

2. Dark paint - minor swirls

3. Light paint - heavy swirls

4. Light paint - heavy swirls



I need product, pad, and machine and setting used for each of the numbered items above.



I realize it might be difficult to have concensus here but it might be a start.



Who knows, this could turn into a sticky post for all newbies.
 
Very cool idea...For what product lines would you make them though?



It will be interesting to see all the different combo's we use.



For Me...



1. Light paint - minor swirls - #80 finishing pad/polishing



2. Dark paint - minor swirls - #80 finishing pad/polishing



3. Light paint - heavy swirls - Optimum Compound/Polish 50/50 mix...Meg's #80 polishing pad...Meg's #80 finishing pad if needed



4. Light paint - heavy swirls - Optimum Compound/Polish 50/50 mix...Meg's #80 polishing pad...Meg's #80 finishing pad if needed



Polishes removed with Meguiars #34

After the polishing steps it's a mere preference of LSP
 
Joshua312 said:
For what product lines would you make them though?
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I would like to make it brand neutral (use what brand works best), if that's possible. In other words, the best process and products regardless of brand.



If not, I would have to eventually give equivilents, like Lake Country Yellow pad is comparable to XYZ brand Orange pad. That's perhaps another project.
 
A few ~random thoughts:



With all the different product lines people use, the only way I can see this being workable is to use generics ("light compound") and standardized subroutines ("apply LSP").



It'd be a pretty involved matrix if I were to chart the relevent factors and the stuff I use :o Being me I'd probably make it a flowchart; wish I'd mastered a flowchart utility so I could do it with a reasonable expenditure of time/effort....



I don't give much consideration to the color of the paint. Rather, I base my approach on:



-The paint's hardness

-How much correction is called for

-Which tools are appropriate and available (rotary, Cyclo, PC, hand)

-How much correction I believe to be safe

-How much correction I plan to do
 
Accumulator said:
With all the different product lines people use, the only way I can see this being workable is to use generics ("light compound") and standardized subroutines ("apply LSP").
Click to expand...



My thoughts, too.
 
Accumulator - good thoughts.



- how do determine the paint's hardness?

- how do determine a safe correction?



The correction plan is what I am trying to document here.



Perhaps a way to do this would be to be generic ("light compound") and have a addendum which lists brand specific options for that generic product. for example, "light compound includes: Optimum XYZ, MeQuiar's # whatever,...



This would help everyone, I think. It's my way to give back a little for all the great help I have received here.



How can I get the most input from the forum participants?



Thoughts?
 
thecarguy said:
- how do determine the paint's hardness?

- how do determine a safe correction?
Click to expand...



Some paints are known to be hard (Spies-Hecker, as used on Audis; Ceramiclear). Otherwise you have to try different stuff and try to start mild.



What's safe is trickier....it sorta comes from experience (I know, that's no real help :o ) but it's best to err on the side of caution. Scratch you can feel with fingernail, live with it.

Original paint on older cars, don't take much off. Car's that're gonna get marred up again anyhow (average owner), ditto. New car with plenty of clear, owned by an Autopian, do ahead and correct it.



NT2SHBBY said:
opinions are subjective...
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Heh heh, those're the opinions you oughta consider carefully and critically ;) OTOH, opinions based on first-hand experience, empirical evidence, and objective criteria are another matter...
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, those're the opinions you oughta consider carefully and critically ;) OTOH, opinions based on first-hand experience, empirical evidence, and objective criteria are another matter...
Click to expand...



my point being, to what some people might consider helpful, others might consider a hinderance...



case in point, some believe costco MFs are garbage, I like them and believe they are quality...



At the end of the day, it's all about what works for YOU :xyxthumbs
 
Yeah, no argument here! We're on the same page. There are all sorts of issues like this that come up whenever we try to standardize procdures or otherwise provide guidelines.
 
I think the biggest factor that would blow this kind of flow chart is paint hardness. What might be an effective swirl remover on one car might not even touch swirls on another car. Aside from that, there are just way too many variables to take into account that all affect how a product works. This is one of those times when the old saying "there is no substitutue for experience" comes into play. This request has come up before and there really is no easy way to figure out what is going to work on your paint without trying it...
 
I agree that might be the easiest thing to do.



When a software developer learns a new computer language, it is best to get some training at first to give everyone a common understanding of how the language works and the best practices for developing applications.



That's my attempt here. Not to specify how to do every job. Rather, to encapsulate the rules of thumb.



To re-examine my previous example above, perhaps there the matrix might look like:



Hard paints: GM, Ford, Nissan (I have no idea if this is right, but I give it for example's sake)

Soft paints: BMW, Mercedez, Audi (Again, I give it for example's sake only)



minor swirls

___Dark paint color:

________________Soft paint: FP using PC with this pad, AIO using PC with that pad

________________Hard paint: FP using PC with the other pad, AIO using PC with some pad



__Light paint color: AIO using PC with that pad, Carnuba by hand

________________Soft paint: FP using PC with this pad, AIO using PC with that pad

________________Hard paint: FP using PC with the other pad, AIO using PC with some pad



deep swirls

___Dark paint color: IP, FP, AIO

________________Soft paint: FP using PC with this pad, AIO using PC with that pad

________________Hard paint: FP using PC with the other pad, AIO using PC with some pad



___Light paint color: IP, FP, AIO, Carnuba

________________Soft paint: FP using PC with this pad, AIO using PC with that pad

________________Hard paint: FP using PC with the other pad, AIO using PC with some pad



I've worked with LOTS of clients from a business analyst role. What you do is sit down with the SME (subject matter expert) and pick his/her brain until you have exhausted every possibility. Then you can write software.



What I attempt here is analogous to that. Provide a generic path to the find the paint condition the detailer faces and encapsulate your experience.



If you go to a training class, the manual you receive will lay out the basics of handling whatever paint condition comes your way. This is similar.



Thanks for your ideas and keep 'em coming.
 
thecarguy said:
I agree that might be the easiest thing to do.



To re-examine my previous example above, perhaps there the matrix might look like:



Hard paints: GM, Ford, Nissan (I have no idea if this is right, but I give it for example's sake)

Soft paints: BMW, Mercedez, Audi (Again, I give it for example's sake only)



snip....
Click to expand...



Paint hardness is probably going to be the biggest stumbling block here.



It isn't as simple as saying all paints from a single manufacturer are hard and others soft. It can vary within that manufacturer and even with the same model of different years. You can't simply say all brand X cars have soft or hard paint.



I wish you all the luck in the world but, you are trying to take what most develop over years of experience and boil it down to something someone can just pick up from crib notes. I think this is one of those instances where "there is just no substitute for experience".
 
SHICKS said:
Here is a product guide

http://danosdetailing.com/products/

The chart was made by Danowatt (Give him the props for the work he put into it).

Steve
Click to expand...

That's HUGE - thanks for letting me know about this.



That is 1/2 or more of the pie. The other half, the half proposed here, is to add to that chart a process of best practices.



For example, the chart list which products are medium cut. I want to build a chart that gives some general guidelines as to WHEN to use a medium cut. Even if those guidelines are something like, "start with a light cut product on a light cut pad. If that doesn't work, then use a medium cut product on a medium cut pad."



Maybe standard pictures of something like, "This is what a medium cut pad did using a medium cut product using a PC on setting 3. Notice it did not get the deep swirls out so next you see we used a heavy cut product on a medium cut pad and increased the speed to 3.5", or something like that. You get the idea?



Just trying to extract the best practices from these forums. Any help is GREATLY appreciated!



Thanks again for that terrific link and big thanks to Danowatt!
 
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