Ammo reboot

[Coatings=crack]

Sooo had an issue with my Frothe sprayer and emailed Larry (Ammo). He had me call him to troubleshoot so he shipped me a new one no charge. I asked if i purchased some products (Frothe and Hydrate 2 of the best in class products i’ve ever used) could he just send the sprayer with it.

He was actually a really cool guy and spent 30 min on the phone with me talking detail. He went above and beyond exchanging the Sprayer and shipping was expidited.

When my IK went bad The Rag Company told me to contact IK as itcwas their product and didnt even have a number was told I could probably find online. Won’t be being any non towel products from them ever again and if I can find non TRC towels I like just as much won’t buy their towels either.

Anyways Larry threw in a bottle of his new Reboot to try and I’m gonna give it a test. Suppose to be a topper for his skin Sealant and claims of 2-3 months protection and sheeting instead of beading.

Applied 2 coats 10 mins apart per instructions. Up against Griots 3-1 ceramic wax... stuffs pretty darn good. Kicked TW Seal & Shines Arse.

I did 2 coats of griots. Didn’t give it a full 12 hours as i felt cure time of 12 hours was more important.

Will post some shine or rain shots tomorrow

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[Supercharged75]

Try Autofiber.com for towels, Ian is a great guy. Great to have positive experiences with small businesses.

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[Chas]

Larry is top notch, personally handled a shipping issue for me and got my product incredibly quick. Eager to hear your thoughts, have been thinking about picking up Reboot.

 

[William_Wallace]

I’d be pissed too if that was the service I got too. They must of been too busy shopping for flannel shirts!

 

[DetailZeus]

Larry is a top notch guy from my experience too. Glad to see someone else try Reboot! It honestly has my favorite water behavior on the market right now. It`s not the most hydrophobic stuff out there but it has an excellent sliding angle so what happens is the water beads run together and just slide off the car. The car will also almost dry itself if you get caught in the rain. I have hard water here so thousands of little water beads that stand tall is not something I want after a wash in the summer.

 

[Astouffer512]

Are you replacing your use of clutch as a topper with reboot?

I just bought some reflex last night to top my eventual coating project

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[Coatings=crack]

Are you replacing your use of clutch as a topper with reboot?

I just bought some reflex last night to top my eventual coating project

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I mainly use PA cosmic right now. Clutch is one of my favorites in that $20-40 crowd. PA cosmic and Kami Overcoat are by far the best performing Sio2 sealants i’ve used/use with Cosmic a little better looks wise to me. I currently use those two with so many others sitting on the shelf. Half a gallon of clutch just sitting their...

Larry’s protection stuff has become more intriguing to me. I love beading but realize in whatever form it is getting the water off the car weather sheeting or beading.

I like reflex as Larry formulated it being safer for us (the user) in mind. I also like his system for us “toppers” as i feel theirs alot of thought into products. And ALOT to stack.

Reflex/Skin/Reboot/Spit....

Reflex to top coating project? Like to hear about it. Reflex is Ammo’s base coating and i’m thinking would take away beading characteristics if applied on top of Sio2 coating.

People say Ammo’s expensive but $69 is good price for coating and $65 for skin or 35 for Reboot seams inline with alot of toppers out their. $25 for Spit (QD w/ UV inhibitors is one i feel is out for me.

The reboot is on hood which is bare for product testing.


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[Astouffer512]

I mainly use PA cosmic right now. Clutch is one of my favorites in that $20-40 crowd. PA cosmic and Kami Overcoat are by far the best performing Sio2 sealants i’ve used/use with Cosmic a little better looks wise to me. I currently use those two with so many others sitting on the shelf. Half a gallon of clutch just sitting their...

Larry’s protection stuff has become more intriguing to me. I love beading but realize in whatever form it is getting the water off the car weather sheeting or beading.

I like reflex as Larry formulated it being safer for us (the user) in mind. I also like his system for us “toppers” as i feel theirs alot of thought into products. And ALOT to stack.

Reflex/Skin/Reboot/Spit....

Reflex to top coating project? Like to hear about it. Reflex is Ammo’s base coating and i’m thinking would take away beading characteristics if applied on top of Sio2 coating.

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Good point maybe I’ll do reflex on the horizontal panels to help in sheeting the water off and beadlock on the vertical panels.

I do like that you can stack his products. I still have half a bottle of TW SNS though I’ll probably try out to top the reflex with.


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[acuRAS82]

Reflex/Skin/Reboot/Spit....

Reflex to top coating project? Like to hear about it. Reflex is Ammo’s base coating and i’m thinking would take away beading characteristics if applied on top of Sio2 coating.

People say Ammo’s expensive but $69 is good price for coating and $65 for skin or 35 for Reboot seams inline with alot of toppers out their. $25 for Spit (QD w/ UV inhibitors is one i feel is out for me.

The reboot is on hood which is bare for product testing.

So is Skin the topper for Reflex coating, or really meant for standalone? Sounds like Reflex might not have top water behavior if you’re saying it might inhibit as a SiO2 topper.

Is Reboot only a topper for Skin or would it also be recommended for topping Reflex?

 

[DetailZeus]

So is Skin the topper for Reflex coating, or really meant for standalone? Sounds like Reflex might not have top water behavior if you’re saying it might inhibit as a SiO2 topper.

Is Reboot only a topper for Skin or would it also be recommended for topping Reflex?

Skin is a polymer WOWO sealant. IIRC you`d do Reflex as the base, then Skin, then top with Reboot or whatever else. Personally though I`ve always been skeptical of the layers of products thing. Why go through all the work formulating a specific water behavior and feel to a coating just to slap something on top of it?

I`ve been throwing Reboot over various sealants (including SiO2 sealants) without any special prep no problem. I`d say if you like super tall, round water beads it`s not the product for you but if you like watching water run off your car you might like it. If I ever tried Reflex I`d probably just use it stand-alone and let it run its course.

Another one I`m eyeing is the 3D coating, I think that is supposed to have a great rolling angle too along with good hydrophobics.

 

[Coatings=crack]

Good point maybe I’ll do reflex on the horizontal panels to help in sheeting the water off and beadlock on the vertical panels.

I do like that you can stack his products. I still have half a bottle of TW SNS though I’ll probably try out to top the reflex with.


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Lol another one i got sitting on the shelf. I’m gonna have to start giving stuff away


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[Coatings=crack]

So is Skin the topper for Reflex coating, or really meant for standalone?

Is Reboot only a topper for Skin or would it also be recommended for topping Reflex?

You can use Skin as a standalone or a topper for reflex. Same with reboot.... stand alone or topper for either.

Sounds like Reflex might not have top water behavior if you’re saying it might inhibit as a SiO2 topper.

Depends on your definition of water behavior. I use to think tight pretty beads meant protection (and it does) but what i’ve realized is if the beads don’t run off the car then doesn’t do much and causes waterspots. Its my problem with Seal&Shine. It looks good and beads well but beads don’t run off car well and leaves spots and dirt. I get a lot of rain throughout year so i’ve notice that aspect of protection.

Ammo products not designed to bead well. It’s designed to sheet. Reflex would take over beading characteristics over his Beadlock. If your looking for the beading not gonna be their.

That’s the fun in products like CQUK3, PA Cosmic and Overcoat.... watching the rain bead up and run off. Sheeting would be no fun but if ultimate goal is to self clean and get water off vehicles and this does a better but no fun to watch job of this then it may be a better protection.

I’ll be recoating next year and wanna give this or graphene a try but don’t know how all my Sio2 toppers will play with them


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[Coatings=crack]

So drove through some rain today. Water beading and beads running off of the hood Griots ceramic wax clear winner. Beads flew off 2-3 times faster.

May not be a clear comparison as griots is a true 6 month sealant and reboot is a topper for a sealant with 2-3 month durability but recommended to use monthly.

Griots CW 3-1 is really impressing tho... not to take away from it. Hopefully report back in a month

GCW 3-1 Ammo Reboot

GCW3-1

Ammo Reboot

Both on bare hood that went through coating decon wash


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[The Guz]

I just bought some reflex last night to top my eventual coating project

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I just don`t see why you would go through all the trouble in masking all the benefits of a coating.

You can use Skin as a standalone or a topper for reflex. Same with reboot.... stand alone or topper for either.

Depends on your definition of water behavior. I use to think tight pretty beads meant protection (and it does) but what i’ve realized is if the beads don’t run off the car then doesn’t do much and causes waterspots. Its my problem with Seal&Shine. It looks good and beads well but beads don’t run off car well and leaves spots and dirt. I get a lot of rain throughout year so i’ve notice that aspect of protection.

Ammo products not designed to bead well. It’s designed to sheet. Reflex would take over beading characteristics over his Beadlock. If your looking for the beading not gonna be their.

That’s the fun in products like CQUK3, PA Cosmic and Overcoat.... watching the rain bead up and run off. Sheeting would be no fun but if ultimate goal is to self clean and get water off vehicles and this does a better but no fun to watch job of this then it may be a better protection.

I’ll be recoating next year and wanna give this or graphene a try but don’t know how all my Sio2 toppers will play with them


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It is just another phase in detailing. It gets boring seeing beading and then sheeting comes into play and then it will go back to beading. Meguiar`s went that route for awhile and people complained about not seeing beading.

So drove through some rain today. Water beading and beads running off of the hood Griots ceramic wax clear winner. Beads flew off 2-3 times faster.

May not be a clear comparison as griots is a true 6 month sealant and reboot is a topper for a sealant with 2-3 month durability but recommended to use monthly.

One thing that would be more important is the self cleaning effect. These sheeting type are not that great at it. One that comes to mind is CSL.

 

[Loach]

So drove through some rain today. Water beading and beads running off of the hood Griots ceramic wax clear winner. Beads flew off 2-3 times faster.

May not be a clear comparison as griots is a true 6 month sealant and reboot is a topper for a sealant with 2-3 month durability but recommended to use monthly.

Griots CW 3-1 is really impressing tho... not to take away from it. Hopefully report back in a month

Appreciate the update! I was curious to see how Reboot performed out in the real world. I can only imagine the benefits of a lower sliding angle on a less hydrophobic product to be very marginal at best. And your comparison shot is the prime example of why that is.

Without enough water to flood the paint, these water "sheeters" are just going to bead water up about as much as the hydrophobic monsters. But you`ll never be able to match the runoff rate with a less hydrophobic product that combines a marginally lower sliding angle, compared to a hydrophobic monster with even lower sliding angles. That`s why Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has smaller beading towards the front half of the hood in your shot. Put Sonax BSD on the paint which is even more hydrophobic and has a lower sliding angle than Griot`s and some of those larger beads towards the windshield would have likely runoff the surface.

You can`t beat physics here. Even in a torrential downpour on a recently polished panel with no protection, the surface has enough tension to prevent flooding and form significant water beading. This is one of my raw clips I filmed about a year ago after the tail end of a rainstorm here in Florida, with the left third of the panel without any protection, the middle third with the less hydrophobic DPC Armor, and the right third with the hydrophobic Mothers CMX. Notice the similarity in the levels of water beading for each section. The ability for us to easily flood less hydrophobic protectants with a hose nozzle does not magically eliminate the ability for the water to significantly resist flooding in uncontrolled situations like a rainstorm.

This video is not narrated:

Even on the side panels of the car at 3:51 that flood quite easily now with the nozzle, it`s not enough volume of water hitting it during a heavy rainstorm to produce any significant sheeting, you still end up with significant beading all over it that will eventually dry up. So while I think the theory of manipulating sliding angles on protectants is interesting and it makes sense in an attempt to combat the spotting issues, I remain skeptical of any real world beading reduction pairing this feature with any mildly hydrophobic protectant. The surface has to be fully hydrophilic to see a noticeable reduction in beading.

Griot`s Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has been very surprising, it`s performed the best of the consumer spray ceramics in a pure durability test so far.

 

[Coatings=crack]

Appreciate the update! I was curious to see how Reboot performed out in the real world. I can only imagine the benefits of a lower sliding angle on a less hydrophobic product to be very marginal at best. And your comparison shot is the prime example of why that is.

Without enough water to flood the paint, these water "sheeters" are just going to bead water up about as much as the hydrophobic monsters. But you`ll never be able to match the runoff rate with a less hydrophobic product that combines a marginally lower sliding angle, compared to a hydrophobic monster with even lower sliding angles. That`s why Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has smaller beading towards the front half of the hood in your shot. Put Sonax BSD on the paint which is even more hydrophobic and has a lower sliding angle than Griot`s and some of those larger beads towards the windshield would have likely runoff the surface.

You can`t beat physics here. Even in a torrential downpour on a recently polished panel with no protection, the surface has enough tension to prevent flooding and form significant water beading. This is one of my raw clips I filmed about a year ago after the tail end of a rainstorm here in Florida, with the left third of the panel without any protection, the middle third with the less hydrophobic DPC Armor, and the right third with the hydrophobic Mothers CMX. Notice the similarity in the levels of water beading for each section. The ability for us to easily flood less hydrophobic protectants with a hose nozzle does not magically eliminate the ability for the water to significantly resist flooding in uncontrolled situations like a rainstorm.

This video is not narrated:

Even on the side panels of the car at 3:51 that flood quite easily now with the nozzle, it`s not enough volume of water hitting it during a heavy rainstorm to produce any significant sheeting, you still end up with significant beading all over it that will eventually dry up. So while I think the theory of manipulating sliding angles on protectants is interesting and it makes sense in an attempt to combat the spotting issues, I remain skeptical of any real world beading reduction pairing this feature with any mildly hydrophobic protectant. The surface has to be fully hydrophilic to see a noticeable reduction in beading.

Griot`s Ceramic 3-in-1 Wax has been very surprising, it`s performed the best of the consumer spray ceramics in a pure durability test so far.

Does sonax protection wise hang with th PA products?

 

[Loach]

Does sonax protection wise hang with th PA products?

Protection is a total guess with Sonax Brilliant Shine Detailer, I`m not sure how the protection of the polymers inside that formula stack up against the SiO2/TiO2 Polish Angel blends. I would not want to use BSD without some sort of base protectant as a precaution. But I have seen it go over 4 months by itself at 1 coat when I ran the test next to Optimum Car Wax. It was super tired at that point, but it was still sheeting slightly where OCW was 100% hydrophilic. Cosmic Spritz and High Gloss I`ve never taken through a pure long term durability test by themselves yet. This was BSD and OCW at 2.5 months no toppers: https://youtu.be/pAYK52GfNPo

 

[acuRAS82]

All I’m saying is that I’ve always seen a correlation between small, tight, tall standing beads (coating for example) and sheeting capability. Larger beads tend to sheet less, generally speaking from most tests I’ve done.

I agree SNS isn’t a great sheeter. And it doesn’t have those tight beads.

 

[DetailZeus]

All I’m saying is that I’ve always seen a correlation between small, tight, tall standing beads (coating for example) and sheeting capability. Larger beads tend to sheet less, generally speaking from most tests I’ve done.

I agree SNS isn’t a great sheeter. And it doesn’t have those tight beads.

I`ve done work in a lab where I`ve seen tight beads that roll off and tight beads that don`t roll off as well. We`re not talking a huge difference in angle though. Totally agree that as you lower the contact angle you`re going to start wetting the surface and water is going to stick.

 

[DetailZeus]

So drove through some rain today. Water beading and beads running off of the hood Griots ceramic wax clear winner. Beads flew off 2-3 times faster.

May not be a clear comparison as griots is a true 6 month sealant and reboot is a topper for a sealant with 2-3 month durability but recommended to use monthly.

Griots CW 3-1 is really impressing tho... not to take away from it. Hopefully report back in a month

[...]

Both on bare hood that went through coating decon wash


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Thanks for the pics! Yep that`s about what Reboot looked like for me on the flat surfaces after a pressure wash. I got decent roll-off on the angled parts of my hood because the lumpy beads rolled together and had enough volume to slide off. Also we`re talking about two hydrophobic surfaces here, just Griots outperforms Reboot in this respect.