AMMO NYC FROTHe

[fly07sti]

As I said, the Ammo unit is the one with the Viton seals. GG uses the model that only has regular EPDM rubber seals. There are certain chemicals you can`t use with EPDM seals that you can with Viton. For waterless washes, EPDM is fine and Viton isn`t necessary; therefore, for foaming a waterless wash, the Ammo and GG offerings should be identical in performance.

I’m aware of what is in the AMMO unit, but wasn’t sure what was in the GG until I got it in my hand today. I’m also aware of the differentiation between the seals and O-rings. I’m just sharing my findings on what these foamers are exactly as opposed to just speculating about them and coming to preconceived conclusions. I’m hoping that by running these things through a few drills that would be similar to what many of us Detailers/enthusiasts would do, I can give some real world experience as to there capabilities.

 

[ShowontheRoad]

I’m hoping that by running these things through a few drills that would be similar to what many of us Detailers/enthusiasts would do, I can give some real world experience as to there capabilities.

Yeah, I`ll be watching for you comparison to Kwazar. I`m not really interested in the foamers, but I do use the standard sprayers which are almost the same.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

There`s a lot to love about Larry, but I`m not fond of his prices, and I especially don`t like that he resells/rebrands products to sell as his own with large mark-ups. I`ve seen him talk at length about his brushes and how great they are. They are bridled glue brushes from Solo. They cost a fraction of what he charges for them. They are great brushes, and I used them myself; I buy them from Solo.

Yeah, well. It kind of comes with the territory that with these detailing personalities, somehow getting a lot of samples from a mfr. and picking out a particular one, and having very specific reasons for picking that one, somehow amounts to "designing" that product. Years ago we had a big blowup on this forum when it was revealed that a boutique brand appeared to be selected products from a bulk manufacturer, repackaged into smaller bottles. There was something to be said at the time for being able to get a 16oz bottle when the bulk mfr. only sold in gallons, and there`s something to be said about Larry doing all the work to pick the "best" foamer or brush and then selling it to you, so you don`t have to do all that trial and error. Oh, and thanks for the brush tip.

 

[fly07sti]

Yeah, I`ll be watching for you comparison to Kwazar. I`m not really interested in the foamers, but I do use the standard sprayers which are almost the same.

I have the Kwazar Venus HD units also and I like them a lot more than there foamer. Oh well we’ll see what happens this weekend between this group of foamers.

 

[Accumulator]

Yeah, well. It kind of comes with the territory that with these detailing personalities,...[who do the].. picking out a particular one, and having very specific reasons for picking that one, somehow amounts to "designing" that product. ..d there`s something to be said about [a vendor] doing all the work to pick the "best" [stuff for you]..

GG used to catch a lot of flak for that, and so did those of us who patronized them.

 

[JustJesus]

..and there`s something to be said about Larry doing all the work to pick the "best" foamer or brush and then selling it to you, so you don`t have to do all that trial and error. Oh, and thanks for the brush tip.

Yessir. Same with Matt of Obsessed Garage. The amount of money that guy has spent looking for the best buckets, bottles, etc....it`s nuts. I`ve spent nowhere near a fraction of what he has looking at some spray bottles, and just settled on "I`ll make what I have work." - But I can appreciate the time, money, and energy those guys take to find "the best stuff" for their needs.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

GG used to catch a lot of flak for that, and so did those of us who patronized them.

Yessir. Same with Matt of Obsessed Garage. The amount of money that guy has spent looking for the best buckets, bottles, etc....it`s nuts. I`ve spent nowhere near a fraction of what he has looking at some spray bottles, and just settled on "I`ll make what I have work." - But I can appreciate the time, money, and energy those guys take to find "the best stuff" for their needs.

Yeah, well. I guess I`m trying to say there`s a difference between actually designing and manufacturing something, or in the case of chemicals, formulating and blending (much less actual chemical manufacturing), and being a "product developer" or whatever other euphemism you want to use, who selects from what`s available to work best for what he wants to do, or perhaps gets something customized to better fit his application.

It`s like if you were invited to a Chevy focus group, and you suggested that some knob be in a different place...you wouldn`t then claim to have designed the interior of the car, would you? So Larry may have gone through a lot of work to get just the waterless wash he wanted, and the foamer to apply it, but he didn`t invent or "design" anything. He figured out what he wanted, got a bunch of samples, provided feedback to the supplier if it wasn`t quite there, and finally got just what he wanted.

Dr. G is the first to admit he doesn`t know much about detailing, which is why he`s had Anthony Orosco, Chris, and now Yvan (and other beta testers like Scottwax) to give him ideas for products, and feedback on how to improve them. Larry is the Yvan or Scottwax in this equation, not the Dr. G. That doesn`t mean he isn`t doing something worthwhile for his customers, nor that he isn`t a talented detailer, promoter, developer.

PS Don`t get me started on that Obsessed Garage guy, he`s in a different category.

 

[Stokdgs]

My good friend the Boat Detailer in WA, worked directly with Dewalt, giving them feedback on the Rotary machines they gave him to test.
He and his Team regularly kill Rotaries all the time, hammering, hammered gelcoat..

He gave them feedback all the time and they used much of it to improve "their" design of the Dewalt Rotary..
I believe this year, they had enough feedback from him and that relationship ended..

He still uses, buys, and kills Dewalt Rotaries because they are the only ones that last the longest for him..
He would never go out and say he designed a Dewalt Rotary for Boat Detailers, because he didn`t do that..

I don`t have time or the desire to watch the "personalities" in this trade...

There are thousands of really great Detailers out there, that no one even hears about, that turn out amazing work because they just keep their head down and keep going forward.
The only people who know them are their loyal Client Base that they have worked really hard for, who in turn, tell their families, neighbors, and friends...
Dan F

 

[Stokdgs]

Yeah, well. I guess I`m trying to say there`s a difference between actually designing and manufacturing something, or in the case of chemicals, formulating and blending (much less actual chemical manufacturing), and being a "product developer" or whatever other euphemism you want to use, who selects from what`s available to work best for what he wants to do, or perhaps gets something customized to better fit his application.

It`s like if you were invited to a Chevy focus group, and you suggested that some knob be in a different place...you wouldn`t then claim to have designed the interior of the car, would you? So Larry may have gone through a lot of work to get just the waterless wash he wanted, and the foamer to apply it, but he didn`t invent or "design" anything. He figured out what he wanted, got a bunch of samples, provided feedback to the supplier if it wasn`t quite there, and finally got just what he wanted.

Dr. G is the first to admit he doesn`t know much about detailing, which is why he`s had Anthony Orosco, Chris, and now Yvan (and other beta testers like Scottwax) to give him ideas for products, and feedback on how to improve them. Larry is the Yvan or Scottwax in this equation, not the Dr. G. That doesn`t mean he isn`t doing something worthwhile for his customers, nor that he isn`t a talented detailer, promoter, developer.

PS Don`t get me started on that Obsessed Garage guy, he`s in a different category.

I believe David Fermani was also there at the beta stage of Optimum Coatings and posted up a lot of pics showing the progress and testing he did..
Think he also took his car, and taped the entire car straight down the middle and coated one side of it with Optimum, then hammered the car through all kinds of weather and hundreds of car washes, to evaluate how Optimum reacted to it..
This was 1-2 perhaps 3 Detail Forums back; I can`t remember all the names, and for sure all those pics are lost somewhere..
Dan F

 

[iluvspl]

Well I just got my Frothe today and mixed a batch in my IK foamer with the dry foam tip and gave it a try. My initial thoughts are it is a great concept and does a very good job at lifting off the dirt with very impressive lubrication. I will say I did see to get a film left behind after I did each panel. I did use fresh clean edgeless TRC microfibers changing them out often. I ended up going over the whole car with V7 to remove the film. Now I am curious if others have had this film issue. Being my first go at it I am willing to accept I may have done something wrong but the film is an issue. I am curious others experience as they start to use the product.

 

[fly07sti]

Well I just got my Frothe today and mixed a batch in my IK foamer with the dry foam tip and gave it a try. My initial thoughts are it is a great concept and does a very good job at lifting off the dirt with very impressive lubrication. I will say I did see to get a film left behind after I did each panel. I did use fresh clean edgeless TRC microfibers changing them out often. I ended up going over the whole car with V7 to remove the film. Now I am curious if others have had this film issue. Being my first go at it I am willing to accept I may have done something wrong but the film is an issue. I am curious others experience as they start to use the product.

Interesting. Thank you for your feedback. What LSP was on the vehicle?

 

[rlmccarty2000]

Well I just got my Frothe today and mixed a batch in my IK foamer with the dry foam tip and gave it a try. My initial thoughts are it is a great concept and does a very good job at lifting off the dirt with very impressive lubrication. I will say I did see to get a film left behind after I did each panel. I did use fresh clean edgeless TRC microfibers changing them out often. I ended up going over the whole car with V7 to remove the film. Now I am curious if others have had this film issue. Being my first go at it I am willing to accept I may have done something wrong but the film is an issue. I am curious others experience as they start to use the product.

Need to go over it with a good rinseless product to remove the film. Lol. I guess that’s why Larry says to use his Hydrate product after Frothe.

 

[Justins00ss]

Got my Frothe today. Figured I would give it a go! First up was my Daily driver Silverado that sits outside. It is coated with IGL Kenzo and had been washed beginning of the week but its been rained on etc since.

For this I only did the hood. I used the towels in the kit which are pretty nice. I mixed up a batch at 2oz to 40oz of warm water.

after the initial wipes

Final drying then hit with IGL Enhancer coating safe detail spray. Now being a daily it does have some light marring from over the winter but I can say with confidence that it did not mar the paint.

Next was the GTO. This only had a light film from a 60mile drive the previous day. It too is also coated with IGL Kenzo. You can see the foam wants to just run off lol.

after the initial wipe down. You can see some foam lingering. But like Larry said it goes away after a short time.

By the time I went around the whole vehicle and came back to do my detail spray the foam had started to dissipate.

All done.

Initial impressions are this product works and works well! A little messy at first but really isn`t that bad. I do like how the foam evaporates in the nooks and you don`t get left over water drips out of the cracks! And once again, no light marring on the gto paint. I will try it again on the truck once it gets a little dirtier.

 

[iluvspl]

FLY07STi- I have ceramic pro 9h on the car and its a alpine white BMW m6

Justins00S- did you notice some residue after your buffing towel wipe of the Frothe? I see you did a detail spray after as well. I want to be able to use the product without the detail spray but I just worry that residue will be left behind and thats why Larry says to use hydrate after.

 

[Justins00ss]

FLY07STi- I have ceramic pro 9h on the car and its a alpine white BMW m6

Justins00S- did you notice some residue after your buffing towel wipe of the Frothe? I see you did a detail spray after as well. I want to be able to use the product without the detail spray but I just worry that residue will be left behind and thats why Larry says to use hydrate after.

If you use a good dry towel then you shouldn`t get much residue at all. But I would definitely plan on using a detail spray afterwards. It will only help make it nicer. No different than doing a traditional wash, dry the using a detail spray to get any residue stuff off.

 

[fly07sti]

So this morning I mixed up 40oz of distilled water with 2 oz of Frothe to clean my Tundra that hasn’t been washed in about 3 weeks. It lives outside and does not get overly pampered. The Mf’s used were Eagle Edgeless for the initial wipe followed up by an Everest 800. I didn’t have a lot of time this morning as I have a 5 year old daughter that was sleeping and a 6 week old daughter that was asleep with my wife, so I had to do what I could before one of them woke up.

Up first was the AMMO unit. IMO, this did produce the driest foam even though the head on the GG unit appeared to be the same. I may have to take it apart to see if I can find any other differences other than the seals/O-rings. I used the AMMO unit on the entire passenger side. It held its pressure very well and didn’t require constant pumping.
Next up was the GG Foamer. I used this on the hood and driver front fender and front door. This unit felt identical in hand to the AMMO unit, but the foam wasn’t quite as dry as. Still a very good piece though. Also being that it’s $20 cheaper and you can get it on sale as I did which is great. Lastly was the Kwazar Foamer. This produced the runniest foam and needs to be pumped to kingdom come and when you start spraying, the pressure drops too fast for my liking.
Now as far as Frothe goes, it smells very good. Very light and clean. Nothing like a CG scent or something overly pungent. It cleaned well and felt very slippery against my MF’s. I did feel the paint needed something after using Frothe, but this could just be my OCD or it could’ve been because everyone was still asleep. lol
Overall I will need to use Frothe some more before I have a definitive opinion on it.

Before

After

Before

After



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Accumulator]

fly07sti- Hey, that was a good comparison, thanks for doing/posting about it (especially since it sounds like you have plenty of more important things to deal with!).

Which did you *prefer*, the "really dry" foam of the AMMO sprayer or the "not quite as dry" output from the GG? I`m kinda thinking that *I* would prefer the latter (though I`d be using it with IUDJ instead, so maybe that`s too wildcard..).

 

[fly07sti]

For me I prefer the AMMO unit. But is it really “better” than the GG unit? Not at all, just my preference. I’d say the AMMO unit is marginally better than the GG Foamer, especially since you can buy the GG whenever Autopia or AG is running a sale and essentially get the GG for half the price or get 2 for the price of the AMMO unit. It’s totally up to you.
We have a little storm coming in tonight that is supposed to last a couple of days. When it passes I plan on trying a few other WW’s in these foamers and will post my findings in a new thread.

 

[Accumulator]

fly07sti- Yeah, Personal Preference again Sounds like all the bases are covered though, and I do find it interesting that seemingly identical units perform differently. I`ll be watching for your next round of evals...oh man, I just know I`ll have to have one of these things some day!

 

[Setec Astronomy]

Up first was the AMMO unit. IMO, this did produce the driest foam even though the head on the GG unit appeared to be the same. I may have to take it apart to see if I can find any other differences other than the seals/O-rings.

At about 13 minutes into Larry`s first video, he talks about the number of "pucks" in the nozzle...I believe that will be the difference you are looking for.