Allowing Banned Members Back on Autopia

[David Fermani]

Thomas – You bring up good points, I’ll try to address them…

I don't know about you man. Do you think they will send you a preview before they post? How can you write something like that? You know very well that you have zero power over what others want to write.

You’re right. I can’t do anything about the content of their posts. But, if they break the rules again, I’ll be the 1st to call them out. You know me, I’m not afraid to give my opinion. :nomore:

UNLESS YOU ARE MADE A SUPER MODERATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nope, I wouldn’t want nor am I interested in that!

You got my vote.

Thanks for your support. :hifive:

So lets say VAsupershine is back - you do know that someone called him a hack and all kind of other names. Do we want to start that again?

I didn’t want to be accused of singling out anyone, so I made sure to add your friend Brian to the list. Whether I called him a hack has no relevance to him being allowed back. I’ve called many people hacks. Especially in recent threads. Ahh shoot, I forgot the biggest banned hack of all. Holden_C04. I’ve updated the list to reflect.

How about Paul Dalton? Do I really want to read again about how envious 1 detailer gets vs PD? Before you ask for proof, those posts are now missing - isn't that interesting? PD never really helps others he only posts his details. Didn't you have an isuue with detailers like that?

Sure. It would be great to see Paul Dalton here. Even better to see him post something other than pictures as well. That goes for everyone!

Lastly, do these people want to even come back?

Not sure about all of them, but I have reached out to a few and they are willing. Maybe once they’re unbanned they’ll respond to a surprise e-mail from me? :nervous:

If someone was banned for multiple accounts, spamming, not admitting that they worked within the industry, they should stay banned if you ask me. As a matter of fact, even now there are people posting here (SPAMMING) who work in the industry and innocent members have no clue. It should be a rule to have that in your signature

I think bringing in and back industry knowledgeable people to the forum can’t do anything but help. I don’t think it’s fair that people who not only create products, but are part of influencial entities haven’t been permitted to post here. Yes, I do agree that their link to the industry should made transparent. I would find it fascinating if these people could discuss not only their’s and other’s product attributes, but processes as well. The new forum owners stated that they will allow free information, I’m all for it! :up

Some on your list should have been never banned, but someone like ZoranC (who I liked) was always causing trouble, not just here but on other sites as well.

I also enjoyed Zoran’s posts. Yes, he could have conducted himself differently, but his punishment was ultimately was judged by DavidB when he questioned a product he endorsed/sold. Regardless, if let back on, he and all the others need to be aware of the rules.

I still don't understand the motive behind your thread. Why the concern?

Because I enjoy participating on this forum and would like to see it grow. Not only with newbies, but with knowledgeable people.

I AM CONFUSED.

Hopefully this cleared things up a little. Please try to keep this discussion peaceful and on topic for once.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

I totally agree with POPPAJ, why in the world would you ban Jon for? He has the most unbiased opinion of any member that I have ever read from.



I do not know any of the other members, but like someone said before me that if all else fails ban them again. What is the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".

Jon has stolen a lot of material from other detailers, most noticeably Mike Phillips , then changed the material slightly and added his own copy right.



On numerous occasions I have read Jon's articles, laughed, then found were I posted the same exact information prior.



Example 1: Jon has an article about detailing myths, it is a near mirror image of a post I made.



Example 2: Jon has a post about polymers and how waxes are really a forum of polymers. He posted this right after him and I had discussion in which he said I was wrong. Once I proved him wrong, he changed tune and completely copied what I had wrote.



Example 3: Jon has a post about Woolite and how he called the company, sent and MSDS sheet to a leather expert, etc. It was almost word for word on a post that I did (David Fermani sent the MSDS sheets to numerous people and I called Woolite) only Jon took credit for it.



Example 4: Jon kept saying Menzerna 106fa and 106ff had different abrasives. He was completely wrong, and when I explained to him the difference, he completely changed his tune and wrote and an article the next day talking about how they use the same abrasives.



Also a lot of Jon's articles are just not accurate, but well written with big words. I believe this is why he banned from numerous forums including Meguiar's online. I could give way more examples and not even touch the articles he has stolen from Mike Phillips but I don't want to turn this into a one man bashing show. Jon's gift, IMO, is the ability to use other people's articles and inject them with big words.



As far as the other people who are banned, I say bring them back. I know from personal experience that the previous management banned people based on personal agendas.



For example, after the previous management slammed me up and down with about 20 accusations (from doctoring photos to clicking my own threads) the only one that stuck (because it was only the one that was semi-true) was that I worked for properautocare.com and that I was shilling. Of course the facts were that I had notified the previous management 3 weeks prior to getting banned on what I was doing and had approached DavidB about properautocare.com being a sponsor on this forum! I still have the screenshots and emails saved.



Also, Pat300ZX has verified that I never ONCE recommended a product sold by properautocare, posted a link to properautocare, or did a review on a product made by properautocare when I became employeed by them. According to Pat, David B spent an entire day looking through my old posts looking for proof of my shilling, and according to Pat300ZX, never found it. I asked Pat to look as well, and he told me that I was not even close to shilling.



So the problem is that a lot of people on the banned list probably suffered the same fate as I. Why was ZoranC banned? Because he said the Flex was better then The Ultimate Detailing Machine.... I don't get along with Zoran, but that wasn't really a bannable reason, and for the most part he was right.



Some other people on the list were banned because they discovered that the original UDM's were cheaply made in China and did not carry a UL label. I have seen the screen shots of the message they received after being banned and some of them were very lude... Not to mention the people who have great knowledge like Bret Fraz who was banned because he liked Zaino.



I think that all members should be allowed back. If they break forum rules they will be banned again. I have a feeling that a lot of those banned never broke any rules other then standing in the way of one man's personal agenda.

 

[ntwrkguy1]

I remember when a lot of those bannings went down. My theory is that if the new management wants to bring them all back, then I'm for it. Some were clearly worse than others in their transgressions, but there were a few names on that list that I learned quite a bit from, and I have been detailing since the early 80's!

 

[Thomas Dekany]

Why would you be banned for thumbs up or down am i missing something? or is this meaning me tdekany cause i use thumbs up sometimes lol.

Nothing to do with you. It had no meaning at all.

 

[wannafbody]

The majority of those bannings were done because David Bynon viewed the person as a threat against his personal business dealings with Ultima, Sonus and Autopia store.



Burlyq was banned after Bynon suggested he start the Poorboys relabeling thread in an attempt to hurt Poorboys business reputation.



Rumor has it that Bynon attempted to charge Mothers to pay for each post that Forrest made on autopia ( he probably attmpted to do the same with Megs and Mike Phillips).



Zoran C was banned for posting about better detailing machines that were a direct compteitor to the chinese crap UDM Bynon was selling. (Flex, Festool, Rigid ect.)



Rumor has it that Bynon had a hit list of members to knock off the forum.



Rumor has it that Bynon was banning alledged shills at autopia while having his own shills post at autopia and other sites.



Rumor has it that Bynon did his fair share of writing less than original ad copy.



Fact is that anyone who has been here at least 5 years and read the posts before they disappeared understood that autopia was not being run in an ethical manner. The claims have been posted elsewhere by former moderators as to the underhanded and unethical actions of David Bynon.

 

[razr007]

I know tdekany just messing around with you that's why i put lol.

 

[wannafbody]

Autopia was once the premier detailing website with many top notch detailers who were willing to give advice for free and share their secrets with others. Most of the best have gone elsewhere. Once autopia went big commercial billboard it all went downhill.

 

[Thomas Dekany]

The majority of those bannings were done because David Bynon viewed the person as a threat against his personal business dealings with Ultima, Sonus and Autopia store.



Burlyq was banned after Bynon suggested he start the Poorboys relabeling thread in an attempt to hurt Poorboys business reputation.



Rumor has it that Bynon attempted to charge Mothers to pay for each post that Forrest made on autopia ( he probably attmpted to do the same with Megs and Mike Phillips).



Zoran C was banned for posting about better detailing machines that were a direct compteitor to the chinese crap UDM Bynon was selling. (Flex, Festool, Rigid ect.)



Rumor has it that Bynon had a hit list of members to knock off the forum.



Rumor has it that Bynon was banning alledged shills at autopia while having his own shills post at autopia and other sites.



Rumor has it that Bynon did his fair share of writing less than original ad copy.



Fact is that anyone who has been here at least 5 years and read the posts before they disappeared understood that autopia was not being run in an ethical manner. The claims have been posted elsewhere by former moderators as to the underhanded and unethical actions of David Bynon.

ZoranC was banned on other forums too - can't be for the reasons you gave. He is a funny guy, but a trouble maker.



DB is not here to defend himself, so lets not make him the bad guy for what he did on HIS forum. Maybe posting FACTS instead of "RUMORS" would be more beneficial.

 

[Scottwax]

Bring back Ozz, aka William H. Bonney too. Always good for laughs when he trolls threads. :lol

 

[wannafbody]

When I use the word "rumors" mostly I'm referring to information that I've been told directly by sources that will remain confidential. Maybe there was something else going on with Zoran C that I'm not aware of.

 

[Tuck91]

TOGWT can stay banned.



His posts were just retarted and were not even helpful at all.



All he does is parrot information and is nothing more than a common thief.

 

[Ben@3D]

DavidB made this offer and in retrospect allowed back several banned members. What will it take for the people listed above to get another chance? So far, the poll results show that the majority of the people would like to see this happen. Can we get some input from the Mods/Admin/Owner? If these people are allowed back, I will personally see to it with the best of my ability that they abide by the forum rules.

Hi David,



You bring up a great point. As you probably all know 80% of the visitors to Autopia are guests. We certainly do not want to mislead them with false propaganda. Out intent is to keep Autopia the most non-biased forum in the planet. Which is why I agree that the Banned members should be given another chance.



My only concern is if they are promoting products for personal gain. They were banned before we purchased the site. Therefore, I have no idea why they were banned. We never received a list of their history or infractions.



If these banned people have hidden agenda to promote a product or a brand, then that is always going to be the case. They wont stop doing that. We make products and even we have been criticized, but never interfered with the posts. We take critisizim as a form of advice to improve our products.



We still have the same moderators from before. As far as I know they do an excellent job. Before I commit to something I will take their opinion next Wednesdays meeting.

 

[tunch123]

DavidB made this offer and in retrospect allowed back several banned members. What will it take for the people listed above to get another chance? So far, the poll results show that the majority of the people would like to see this happen. Can we get some input from the Mods/Admin/Owner? If these people are allowed back, I will personally see to it with the best of my ability that they abide by the forum rules.

Hi David,



You bring up a great point. As you probably all know 80% of the visitors to Autopia are guests. We certainly do not want to mislead them with false propaganda. Our intent is to keep Autopia the most non-biased forum in the planet. Which is why I agree that the Banned members should be given another chance.



My only concern is if they are promoting products for personal gain. They were banned before we purchased the site. Therefore, I have no idea why they were banned. We never received a list of their history or infractions.



If these banned people have hidden agenda to promote a product or a brand, then that is always going to be the case. They wont stop doing that. We make products and even we have been criticized, but never interfered with the posts. We take criticism as a form of advice to improve our products.



We still have the same moderators from before. As far as I know they do an excellent job. Before I commit to something I will take their opinion next Wednesdays meeting.

 

[RTexasF]

I'll be the one that disagrees then. What possible good could come from bringing back banned members? It's a time bomb just waiting to happen.



Why not concentrate on gaining new members rather than going backwards? Some new life here could renew this place rather than bringing old troublemakers back aboard......as if they would even want to. Were I banned from a site, rightfully or unjustly, it's the last place I'd ever want to go again. A senseless poll to me with no purpose. Just my opinion.

 

[Junebug]

Personally,I think there's a few that should stay away, but what harm could come from letting them back? If they screw up, break the rules, then they're out and that's that.



I emailed Zoran back after he was banned, he was sent packing for basically calling DavidB on the carpet for shady business practices. Whether he was right or not, it's not a good idea to insult a host in his house. But, Karma has a way of making things right and I'm sure we all get what we give. I know that's how my life has been.



I agree 100% with Todd's post. Jon is a at best a parrot.

 

[Chris@Optimum]

I think it should be individually assessed and apologies for past actions given. That being said, I would welcome anyone back to the community that was here to contribute...not promote their self or bash others opinions.

 

[akimel]

How about bringing back Mr. Chemist?

 

[wannafbody]

My only concern is if they are promoting products for personal gain. They were banned before we purchased the site. Therefore, I have no idea why they were banned. We never received a list of their history or infractions. (end quote)





The fact that you were never given a list of banned members and the reasons should probably indicate that something less than aboveboard occured on the part of the previous owner in many cases. You'll never know the full story since many posts were deleted. Sure, there were a few spammers but they were pretty obvious.

 

[RTexasF]

That's nice but what are you saying? Your post has no point, at least to me.

Not trying to cause a problem, just asking.

 

[wannafbody]

That's nice but what are you saying? Your post has no point, at least to me.

Not trying to cause a problem, just asking.

My point, to be blunt is that 3D didn't know what they were buying into. They didn't know about David Bynon's unethical behavior in running autopia prior to arranging a business deal with him to launch HD and to sell autopia.org to them. He sold them a site in which he deleted information and/or neglected to pass along information regarding former members that would have shown him in a negative manner. Of course, if it wasn't for a few members who've posted how Bynon shafted them 3D still wouldn't have a clue. It should be pretty obvious when 70% favor letting banned members in that the majority think that this forum was run in an underhanded method.