All clay not the same

David Fermani said:
You really need to brush up on the product line you sell because you either don’t know it or you’re a really bad liar.
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This kind of crap is absolutely NOT called for. This is a warning; timeout is the next step.



Tort

(moderator)



P.S. Everyone, take two and a deep breath before posting: :chill: :chill: . . .
 
David Fermani said:
Sounds like it could be SPAM.
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Wait, what? Look at your own posts . . . if anyone in this thread appears to be on a payroll, it's you. I've long wondered about your financial relationship with AutoMagic, as you both recommend their products very frequently *and* jump to their defense quickly and vigorously.



Hmm. Sounds like it could be SPAM.



See how that works?



Tort

(moderator)
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Easily argued in other industries as well, patented drugs, for instance, that wind up limiting access for people who could be helped by them but can't afford them or the ins. co. won't pay. It could also be argued that we suffered through GM's mixture control carburetors in the early 80's because of Bosch's fuel injector patents which made it too expensive for GM (and others) to broadly adopt port fuel injection until GM was able to develop their Multec injector which skirted the Bosch patents.
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Well said. I guess it's just a bummer that when laws ment to encourage innovation end up having the opposite affect. Though in the long run good produts always seem to prevail (I just don't want to wait forever in this instance).
 
Well, I like to try new products, and the folks on this here forum sure give advice on what to get. I'd like to thank those that recomended Optimum - works for me after I learned to cut back on product! But, to David's defense - I've PM'd him several times asking for advice on Automagic products - which to get etc. He has never replied to my requests, although he's helped me on buffers, pads, wash mitts etc - he's never once suggested I try Automagic.
 
Just to clarify and hopefully put an end to this:



Debate is healthy, as long as no one crosses the line. And my feelings aren't hurt, so hopefully we can all move on.



And regarding the "quality" issue on current clay: there are other clays that work. I have experimented with 30 something different clays at least. I have found that the elastic clays removed contamination with less scratching and last substantially longer. Pretty simple. Unfortunately, many didn't get a chance to use this clay, or I think there would be substantially less argument here.
 
Coupe said:
Yes it is, what david showed (the elastic pic) is the same clay you get at autozone.
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You sure? Again, the 4 or 5 bars I have are not THAT elastic, and they are all MUCH darker in color.
 
RCBuddha said:
claypics005.jpg
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David, could you please let me know which clay is this and where I can get it?
 
Is that the consumer Clay magic (the one you can find OTC)? The few bars I have are not that elastic. :confused:
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I really don't think there's a difference? I've always purchased mine directly from my Auto Magic distributor. I buy it by the 200 gram package(picture below). The picture I posted prior is a 200 gram bar and is easier to work with when it's larger. Plus, the more you work/knead your clay, the looser it becomes, especially when it's not stored in a cold environment.



DISCLAIMER: it's not fair to judge a clay by how over-elastic it is unless it's not elastic at all. There's alot of clay produced by Auto Magic (not CLay Magic) that breaks apart and crumbles. Clay Magic is elastic enough. Anything more elastic would be on the gooey side. It wouldn't hold it's shape and would need to be folded constantly to remain workable.



claypics008.jpg
 
TortoiseAWD said:
This kind of crap is absolutely NOT called for. This is a warning; timeout is the next step.



Tort

(moderator)



P.S. Everyone, take two and a deep breath before posting: :chill: :chill: . . .
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Sorry. I understand your point.
 
TortoiseAWD said:
Wait, what? Look at your own posts . . . if anyone in this thread appears to be on a payroll, it's you. I've long wondered about your financial relationship with AutoMagic, as you both recommend their products very frequently *and* jump to their defense quickly and vigorously.



Hmm. Sounds like it could be SPAM.



See how that works?



Tort

(moderator)
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I can only recommend products that I know and trust. Since starting in the detail business back in 1990, no other chemical company could service my needs the way Auto Magic could. They offer a complete line of products, they come right to my shop weekly, they help train my people, they're cheaper than competitors and supply great factory support. I've had other companies attempt to try servicing me, but they really didn't compare based on my high volume needs. I have NO financial relationship with them other than spending well over $100,000 of dollars on their products over the years. I can personally testify that their products work (when used properly) and think they get a bad rap on Autopia. When people bash them and really can't substantiate just cause, I feel compelled to voice my opinion. If their products didn't work or were'nt good, I wouldn't and couldn't risk using them. Again, you will never find me bashing products on this site, it's not necessary (or professional) to get a point accross.
 
RAG said:
...and if you want to continue using their products, that's your business. I don't know what your relationship is to Auto Magic, but if you want to be a proponent of their products, that's fine with me...put nicely I will say they are "highly inexpesive" and I guess that's a good thing for some.
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:werd: I love spending less money on the same if not better things.



RAG said:
And I am in fact upset with what they've done regarding their so-called patent, as they've seriously set the industry back a notch by their actions.
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Explain how Auto Magic (through their pantent) is setting the industry back? They are answering the the call of the market by producing clay for many public retailers. Do you think that if there wasn't a patent, everyone would be selling elastic clay? You seem to blame Auto Magic for suppling clay the to people the way the call for it. If Mother's clay sucks, it's not Auto Magic's fault. They pick the color and the fomulation.



RAG said:
And in case you haven't noticed, by posting this thread I have several quality leads to follow regarding good clay...so I do think it was productive. And "yes," I hoped this thread would spur a those in power to somehow find a way to get good clay again.
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What *several* quality leads are you referring to? E-Shine? That's 1. Is there any more? That's only *helping* people outside the US. What characteristics qualify clay as good? How much it stretches? That's what bubble bum is suppose to do, not clay. Please explain.
 
David Fermani said:
:and the fomulation.







What *several* quality leads are you referring to? E-Shine? That's 1. .
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Actually that is ZERO. We have blatantly turned down every USA enquiry period. I have no idea who RAG is. It was never stated the clay he was using is our Riccardo Clay, many other countries also sell the same yellow clay. I have even turned down Canadian's that even hint they are going to ship them to the USA. I got too much other stuff that keeps me busy, going to court is not on my list of things to do.
 
Explain how Auto Magic (through their pantent) is setting the industry back? They are answering the the call of the market by producing clay for many public retailers. Do you think that if there wasn't a patent, everyone would be selling elastic clay? You seem to blame Auto Magic for suppling clay the to people the way the call for it. If Mother's clay sucks, it's not Auto Magic's fault. They pick the color and the fomulation.
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By Auto Magic persuing patent infringement legalities, (which they have a right to) they have stopped ANYONE from formulating something worthier. The patent is so generic, anything that resembles clay, and used for cleaning (it may be even more generic then just an automobile), would be considered an infringement. They have basically monopolized the product. If you think about it, you have 100's of waxes, sealants, dyes, polishes, RVT's, sponges, soaps, vacuums, rotaries, etc (some to a lesser degree obviously). You have one clay maker, period.

I would venture to say, if there was not a patent, there would obviously be more people selling/using elastic polymer type clays. I have no doubt I would. Clay Magic is good, but theres plenty of room for improvement.

Competition is always good for employment, marketplace, economy, and growth. Maybe they have something to fear? It will be very interesting in a few years when the patent expires...........I definetly think you will see some challenges in the courts.
 
David, its already been brought to the surface on this forum. You see new polishes and sealants coming out every year, better then the last version. The same applies for detailing clay, its good, but I personally would prefer something a little less sticky, and more pliable...Not to mention a price decrease. We would all appreciate that.....

Some are trying to answer the needs with these rubber skinned detailing blocks I have seen. Its not a matter of who and when it happens, the evolution process has already begun.
 
Hey, you guys need to call a truce. Can't Patrick and RAG and Accumulator like one kind of clay, and David Fermani like another? We (usually) let people like different polishes and waxes and stuff here, why not clay?



And Patrick, yes, AWC has a TON of claims in that patent. When you apply for a patent, you try to get as many ancillary claims as possible, so no one can skirt you, you TRY to make it so that anything remotely related is covered by your patent, but the examiner usually knocks down most of your claims like that.



I agree the "rubber skinned blocks" seem like a step toward affordability, but the price so far seems higher than clay. Didn't someone here buy a hunk of that art store clay that's used for sticking posters on the wall for some ridiculously low price, and found that it didn't work half badly? I'm too tired to search it out right now...
 
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