All clay not the same

Some people and clay, i just don't get it.





If it were such an inferior product they wouldn't be in business still. Is it cause it doesn't say zaino, pinnacle, or poorboys and don't cost and arm leg and first born? Is that the reason you don't like it? It doesn't have a cult following? I mean thats the only thing i can think of. The blue clay magic works the same way everytime for me with no problems ever.
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
David, neither of those clays in the video are produced by clay magic (to my knowlege). Again, Clay Magic/Auto Magic is being referenced, because they are the patent holders. One could assume all clays nowadays, not saying Mothers or Megs on it, are produced by/for clay magic/auto magic.

Thats a very inaccurate statement.

Eshine, that looks just like the OptiClay of old! Even the white box it comes in.....
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You are just like RAG(you did say you support his cause) in the fact that you're making Auto Magic Clay Magic look bad by being guilty by association and referencing any clay that isn't your so called "elastic clay" as Clay Magic. Just because Auto Magic produces/sells non-Clay Magic to private detail companies(yourself) doen't make it Clay Magic. There is a difference. A very reasonable difference. Blue Clay Magic doesn't break apart/crumble and can be used several dozen times for most light applications and IS as elastic as any other clay on the market. Just like Elastic clay's claim to so called fame. I think 1st and foremost you need to get your facts straight. Any clay *legally* :ca sold in the US is made/sold through Auto Magic(Auto Wax). That doen't mean that it's Clay Magic unless it says it(even if it's blue). That means that every clay on your web-site that you promote/sell is Auto Magic Clay. You sell pretty much every clay except Clay Magic? Why not sell the truest stain of the clay made by the manufacturer? You try to come close by offering a knock off medium gray clay along with Auto Magic Body Shine Clay Lube, but it's not Clay Magic! Seems kinda misleading to me. We need to be clear with how we describe clay, especially when we're bashing it, because lots of people have been getting it wrong. Ever wonder why so many people have mixed negative opinions on non-Clay Magic clay? That's maybe because it's not the real, true strain. :think2
 
haha, judging by this thread, I think I should take a year off from university, and smuggle thousands of clay bars across the boarder. :) If i visit SoCal this summer, I will bring some for my "family" :).
 
the elastic-type clays were superior in every way to the clay they are having produced
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This is what the debate is about DF.

If Auto/Clay magic didnt have some reason other then monetary to take this to court, one would think the elastic clays were taking some considerable business from them. Why? Possibly because it was a superior product?

Without beaking any rules here and explaining exactly what I do sell, I will refrain from its description. Theres no need to enlighten me on ANY products I do carry. The exact Clay Magic kit on my site you referred to, is also offered on Autopias site. There is no reference to it being Clay Magic, for the record.

One other thing, before you go accusing others of not selling true to form products, ask the vendor who its manufacturer is. I ask you the same, get your facts together before you state them.
 
the elastic-type clays were superior in every way to the clay they are having produced
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a.k.a. Patrick said:
This is what the debate is about DF.
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Right! It's about the most inaccurate, incorrect and ignorant statement I've ever heard about clay. I really question the integrity of the professional detailer who believes this. That's the most 1 dimensional assumption someone who considers them self a knowledgeable detailer could make. There's no proof, just plain unsubstantiated opinion.



a.k.a. Patrick said:
If Auto/Clay magic didnt have some reason other then monetary to take this to court, one would think the elastic clays were taking some considerable business from them. Why? Possibly because it was a superior product?
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I guess you also endorse patent infringement too? Obviously you’ve never read any of these:



Feb 23, 2000 Press Release

March 15, 2000 Press Release

July 25, 2001 Press Release

July 25, 2001 Press Release

June 20, 2002 Press Release

December 3, 2003 Press Release

November 1, 2004 Press Release

April 29, 2005 Press Release

July 5, 2005 Press Release



Auto Magic is the largest auto reconditioning manufacturer in the world. I seriously doubt 1 product by a hole in the wall company affected their clay market share. It’s funny how these companies went under after their clay sales were shut down. They must not have had a leg to stand on with their other product line?



a.k.a. Patrick said:
The exact Clay Magic kit on my site you referred to, is also offered on Autopias site. There is no reference to it being Clay Magic, for the record.
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You really need to brush up on the product line you sell because you either don’t know it or you’re a really bad liar. . Autopia sells the*real* actual Auto Magic Blue Clay Magic PERFECT FINISH KIT. You sell Auto Magic Body Shine Clay Lube with KNOCK OFF/UNBRANDED CLAY. That’s comparing apples to bacon. No comparison. See pictures from both web-sites below:



Autopia’s :

autopia_1954_27204125.gif




Your’s:

7518_pd290577full.jpg




a.k.a. Patrick said:
One other thing, before you go accusing others of not selling true to form products, ask the vendor who its manufacturer is. I ask you the same, get your facts together before you state them.
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I think I proved you very wrong. Is there a good reason why you don’t offer the *real kit* on your site?
 
Wow, you guys should take a breath before you get yourselves into trouble.



David, ACC does indeed sell the kit you pictured, with the gray clay: Perfect Shine Detailing Clay Bundle



Patrick, I have a little first-hand experience with patents, and it's not really about AWC being afraid of the competition or losing a "considerable" amount of business, it's about the principle of the thing, and the huge amount of money it takes to apply for/get/maintain a patent. Let's also not forget that KEL not only PO'd AWC, they disregarded a court order and found themselves in contempt and lost their right to appeal. KEL may be getting double stomped on not just because they infringed on the patent, but because they kept doing it after they got caught, sued, and injoined by the court from doing it.
 
Setec Astronomy said:
David, ACC does indeed sell the kit you pictured, with the gray clay: Perfect Shine Detailing Clay Bundle
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It's kinda misleading. Autopia sells the true $14.99 Clay Magic Kit(Body Shine Lube/Clay Magic) as well as a $7.99 Body Shine Lube/Gray Clay/MF Towel/Video (the link you posted). Patrick's $12.99 kit(Body Shine Lube/Gray Clay) does'nt have a video or a MF Towel. It really quite different. Especially the price. :spit:
 
Mike, I know about the infringment as well. And thanks for the refresher course in a proper manner.

On the contrary, if other clay makers were doing AWC a favor by making inferior clay, they wouldnt have persued a lawsuit. The fact of the matter remains, they were taking a market share of Auto Magics rightful money, because it was a good product. Was it legal, hell no, and Im not arguing that point. And they deserve what they got for the infringment. So, the demise of elastic clays as we once knew i.e OptiClay and the others.

David, as stated, there's no referrence to the clay on my site, or ACCbeing Clay Magic clay...I would hope you would remove your distasteful comments for lack of accuracy, or make corrections which state a legitimate claim.

12oz of Clay Magic Clay Lube, and 100 gam (4oz) medium grade gray clay bar........This was mentioned previously yet you still choose to persue a distinctive motive. If you have a bone to pick with me, please feel free to call the number on the web page.
 
Patrick - I have no personal problem with you. My only problem is that you've elected to take possession of the Clay Magic bashing torch that RAG starts continuously without 1 single fact to back up any arguement to support your cause. Period.

I find it quite interesting that the creator of this useless negative thread drops off after his inital post 3 days ago? Sounds like it could be SPAM. :beware :nixweiss I guess I'll wait a couple of weeks for him to PM me with a another question about something he needs help with again. :secret
 
For the record..ahem..I use tons of Blue Clay Magic and love it. Use what works for you, and feel free to express what you don't like! Thats why autopia is GREAT!



For instance, Meguiars Sucks! (I don't really think that).



And all clay can probably mar some paint. For instance blue clay magic mars the he11 out of my mothers black 07 Rav4, as do all other clay I have used on it (meguiars, zaino, and mothers).
 
David Fermani said:
It's kinda misleading. Autopia sells the true $14.99 Clay Magic Kit(Body Shine Lube/Clay Magic) as well as a $7.99 Body Shine Lube/Gray Clay/MF Towel/Video (the link you posted).
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That $7.99 is a closeout price, I think the original was $12.99, and that was without the towel and video...that particular clay package fluctuates a lot in price depending on what's going on at ACC.
 
a.k.a. Patrick said:
On the contrary, if other clay makers were doing AWC a favor by making inferior clay, they wouldnt have persued a lawsuit.
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I don't agree with that. If it was my patent, and someone is infringing, I'd sue their butt even if what they were making was crap. Two reasons: one is, I make back the money they made, plus damages and probably my legal fees also, while taking out my post-patent competition, and two, to deter other infringers who might make a better product from even getting started.
 
Thats cool Mike, but ones failings are often anothers best unsolicited marketing.....=) Mike your obviously very well versed in patent infringement/legalities...=)

Dave, all Im agreeing to is the elastic clays that I have used in the past, exceled in comparison to what was being produced by the more popular company. I use clays made by CM and dont have any problems with them. However, I dont have the issues RAG does with the need for the higher elastic clay he prefers. The clays I currently use (With the exception of the one in the video) meet my needs for my area. Way lower exposure to fallout, then 200 miles south of me......

And yes, as for those pics of the elasticity, (as others have commented) i have yet to find anything like that. (But Im pretty content with what I have anyway!)
 
Seriously, I'm going to try to respond to your attack in a civil manner, but as per the other comments regarding your response, don't read it if you don't like it...and if you want to continue using their products, that's your business. I don't know what your relationship is to Auto Magic, but if you want to be a proponent of their products, that's fine with me...put nicely I will say they are "highly inexpesive" and I guess that's a good thing for some. And I am in fact upset with what they've done regarding their so-called patent, as they've seriously set the industry back a notch by their actions.



And in case you haven't noticed, by posting this thread I have several quality leads to follow regarding good clay...so I do think it was productive. And "yes," I hoped this thread would spur a those in power to somehow find a way to get good clay again.





David Fermani said:
RAG - Get a grip and stop RAGGING on Auto Magic Clay! Do you set your thread alarm clock to repost a non-helpful/bashing thread about how crappy Auto Magic Clay Magic is every 3 months??:bawling:



http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/80165-we-need-better-clay.html

http://autopia.org/forum/detailing-product-discussion/85170-still-no-good-clay-available.html



As I've said before, you doing this isn't helping your cause. You would be better off calling Auto Magic and discussing this than wasting your time posting this negative energy. Do you really think this thread is helpful? If Clay Magic sucks so bad and claying plays that vital of a role in your business, you need to drive to Canada and buy 10 cases of your cure all/save all elastic clay. This is getting beyond rediculous. :wall
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RAG said:
And I am in fact upset with what they've done regarding their so-called patent, as they've seriously set the industry back a notch by their actions.
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Easily argued in other industries as well, patented drugs, for instance, that wind up limiting access for people who could be helped by them but can't afford them or the ins. co. won't pay. It could also be argued that we suffered through GM's mixture control carburetors in the early 80's because of Bosch's fuel injector patents which made it too expensive for GM (and others) to broadly adopt port fuel injection until GM was able to develop their Multec injector which skirted the Bosch patents.
 
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