imported_JoshVette
New member
You need to define the word professional, cause webster sums it up as, what you do for a living....not how good you are at what you do.
Additional Forum For Pro Detailers
- Thread starter jimmybuffit
- Start date
imported_JoshVette
New member
David Fermani said:
David, I totally see your point, but think of it this way.... you are a specialist when it comes to detailing and have much experience which is not discredited, but if you do not detail as a profession then you, by definition, are not a professional detailer.
I said what I said based on what the word "professional" is defined as according to Webster. I would not discredit a retired, very experienced detailer's advise, but if detailing is not one's form of income and lively hood, then it's not their profession, just their specialty.
Look up the word "Professional" in the dictionary.
The problem is there's plenty of hacks and high volume "detailers/wash and waxers" out there doing this as their living and there's no real standard by which to measure detailing due to the fact that the goal for "most" is to please the client by making there car shiny on the outside and clean on the inside, most owners don't know the difference between quality work and a good wipe down with a rag which makes the standard of excellence more difficult to define.
So if "results" are the standard then the owners define "quality" based on whether or not they are satified with the car afterwards, but if "quality" is defined by technique, process, thoroughness and ultimately perfection of the paint, interior and all other aspects of the car then the detailer is the one who defines it.....:nixweiss
You can see how this can become complicated.:hairpull
imported_JoshVette
New member
......So who defines "QUALITY" and who defines "PROFESSIONAL" if we're going to make out own interpretations for the words.:think2
JoshVette said:
Good point. I agree that terms really get used loosely in today's society. I'm trying to come up with something more accurate. Terms like expert, skilled, proficient and adept all seem to fall short. I work with other 'professionals' who can barely tie their own shoes. This is the distinction I'm trying to make.
How do you refer to yourself/your level of work?
Everything just sounds like an infomercial
A+
4 Stars
advanced
savvy
best
incredible
Need to think :work:
I'm thinking that we can not put into words well enough the level of expertise that I've seen displayed here. We may be focusing too much on the name rather than the results. It's all about the results, and if your customers are pleased.
Technically it could be called - Ham Hands and Blind Joe's detail shop. If the cars that came out were absolutlely perfect, I'm sure they would get repeat business.
Technically it could be called - Ham Hands and Blind Joe's detail shop. If the cars that came out were absolutlely perfect, I'm sure they would get repeat business.
imported_JoshVette
New member
Another interjection if I may....
So lets say you have this whole association underway and have a whole list of "professional" detailers that your association considers the best, highest quality and skilled detailers of all time.
Who's to say the clients will care what the association says (for all the client knows the detailer paid to be your list), when they hear JoeShmoe down the street does a great job from their buddy with a Porsche, but that detailers not on your list?
Again, all just constructive critizism, food for thought.
Josh
So lets say you have this whole association underway and have a whole list of "professional" detailers that your association considers the best, highest quality and skilled detailers of all time.
Who's to say the clients will care what the association says (for all the client knows the detailer paid to be your list), when they hear JoeShmoe down the street does a great job from their buddy with a Porsche, but that detailers not on your list?
Again, all just constructive critizism, food for thought.
Josh
imported_JoshVette
New member
boogiejoe said:
I agree, but most 90% of clients don't have the first clue about quality detailing. It's extremely easy to please the customers and not perform quality work, hacks do it all the time and many clients swear they are the best.....so why do they get so much repeat business if they do not have quality skills....
If the guy down the street does a good job, that's great. We may want to ask him to join.
I don't think that we will own the detailing world. We can try to educate the public and inform them, but we won't be able to force them. People will still wash their cars with Dawn in their driveway and let their 3 year olds help the wash with a broom.
If this association increases your revenue by only 10% and it doesn't cost you anything, is it worth it?
As we gain more people we will be able to provide more benefits, more recognition, more education and better service. We will also be able to establish a larger presence within the industry.
I don't think that we will own the detailing world. We can try to educate the public and inform them, but we won't be able to force them. People will still wash their cars with Dawn in their driveway and let their 3 year olds help the wash with a broom.
If this association increases your revenue by only 10% and it doesn't cost you anything, is it worth it?
As we gain more people we will be able to provide more benefits, more recognition, more education and better service. We will also be able to establish a larger presence within the industry.
imported_JoshVette
New member
If it's non profit, who would be sponsoring this forum??
A lot of venders sponsor forums, would this forum be the same way?
A lot of venders sponsor forums, would this forum be the same way?
JoshVette said:
I am sponsoring the forum. It's something I feel strongly about, and don't mind helping out. I do all of this in my spare time. If we were to take on a sponsor it would have to be decided on by the members. I want to be uncomprimising. This involves everyone's reputation, and I don't have the guts to gamble with it for a few bucks.
I want most of the direction to come from the members. I want to be able to offer as much as possible for people to pick and choose what best suits their business needs.
Thanks BoogieJoe for the PM, and sorry that I am a little delayed in joining in on the festivities.
There is some great dialog going back and forth here. This is my brainstorm. The organization sounds like a needed one in the industry, but if the members are to be recognized as members, the focus should be on building the brand for the organization. What makes this organization the one that anyone wants to join? How is the organization influencing the industry? What privileges does belonging to this organization give to me as a detailier? How does it set me apart from other detailers? What will this organization do to improve my business? How can this organization builds a brand that is recognizable by consumers for quality work?and lastly, my favorite How do you educate the customer to draw out a hack from a quality detailier (i.e. Certain questions to ask?)
t is one thing to be respected by your peers, but in the end it is the customer that we are pleasing despit e the fact that they do not know much. This orgnation can hold industry strength amounst peers, however mean nothing to the end customer.
Although I myself am a part-timer myself, I can see where Josh Vette is going with this as far as being a defined professional. There is also another definition of professional that I think would work better and that definition is "Having or showing great skill; expert:". I personally do not do this as a living, but I do believe that I approach each job with a best approach and practices.
Also I do not believe that this organization is totally about the skill set of its members. I would take an organization such as what you envision, to also have a focus on the business end of detailing as well. Not all detailers own a business, but there are many out there that need assistance when they want to start one. This section of the organization can link detailing business veterans with the new-start-ups as a support system.
As far as the membership layout is concerned. Leave it open so that anyone can join as an associative member. This is a member that has given money to attain the support of others. This type of membership can raise needed monies for the organization (enthusiasts will most likely join this).
The next level would be
Normal member - Needed in order to certify
Senior Member - These are Elected Members
You can put the real value in certifications; where you have two levels, one for detailing and one for business. For example, the certifications can be scenario based, asking what a member would do given certain situations, such as prepping a new car or prepping a repainted panel done 15 days ago (Trick Question). Then for the certification the member would then have to detail a car from beginning to end in front of a senior member for observation. The Senior member documents the process in detail, and fills in the observation documents and then turns them in to an evaluation boards that then grants or denies the certification. This certification, if the organization did its branding correctly, will then carry value throughout the industry and also to the customer.
Sorry that it is long winded, but like I said it was a brain storm, so forgive the grammatical errors please. Building a brand is going to be very important that is for sure.
There is some great dialog going back and forth here. This is my brainstorm. The organization sounds like a needed one in the industry, but if the members are to be recognized as members, the focus should be on building the brand for the organization. What makes this organization the one that anyone wants to join? How is the organization influencing the industry? What privileges does belonging to this organization give to me as a detailier? How does it set me apart from other detailers? What will this organization do to improve my business? How can this organization builds a brand that is recognizable by consumers for quality work?and lastly, my favorite How do you educate the customer to draw out a hack from a quality detailier (i.e. Certain questions to ask?)
t is one thing to be respected by your peers, but in the end it is the customer that we are pleasing despit e the fact that they do not know much. This orgnation can hold industry strength amounst peers, however mean nothing to the end customer.
Although I myself am a part-timer myself, I can see where Josh Vette is going with this as far as being a defined professional. There is also another definition of professional that I think would work better and that definition is "Having or showing great skill; expert:". I personally do not do this as a living, but I do believe that I approach each job with a best approach and practices.
Also I do not believe that this organization is totally about the skill set of its members. I would take an organization such as what you envision, to also have a focus on the business end of detailing as well. Not all detailers own a business, but there are many out there that need assistance when they want to start one. This section of the organization can link detailing business veterans with the new-start-ups as a support system.
As far as the membership layout is concerned. Leave it open so that anyone can join as an associative member. This is a member that has given money to attain the support of others. This type of membership can raise needed monies for the organization (enthusiasts will most likely join this).
The next level would be
Normal member - Needed in order to certify
Senior Member - These are Elected Members
You can put the real value in certifications; where you have two levels, one for detailing and one for business. For example, the certifications can be scenario based, asking what a member would do given certain situations, such as prepping a new car or prepping a repainted panel done 15 days ago (Trick Question). Then for the certification the member would then have to detail a car from beginning to end in front of a senior member for observation. The Senior member documents the process in detail, and fills in the observation documents and then turns them in to an evaluation boards that then grants or denies the certification. This certification, if the organization did its branding correctly, will then carry value throughout the industry and also to the customer.
Sorry that it is long winded, but like I said it was a brain storm, so forgive the grammatical errors please. Building a brand is going to be very important that is for sure.
Pats300zx
Super Moderator
This to me is an idiotic statement. So basically if I don't do this 9-5 full time then I am not "professional" in your eyes??? Get real...I use this as a way to supplement my income and I have a great time doing it. Just because I don't log the amount of man hours doesn't mean I am any less of a caliber of a detailer than others out there. If I'm not a professional then what am I?? An "Amateur",
The Webster definition is irrelevant.
I see the reasoning you are trying to put out there but your statements make no sense.
jimmybuffit
That'll buff right out!
Gosh, this thread sure took a left turn!
Remember, it started as an announcement of the National Association of Professional Detailers and Reconditioners.
Not some upstart wannabe group that has:
No members
No charter
No direction
No history
No credibility (Chris has been a member for just 3 months/ 39 posts)
:sosad :sosad :sosad
I said earlier something about an open mind...
Jim
Remember, it started as an announcement of the National Association of Professional Detailers and Reconditioners.
Not some upstart wannabe group that has:
No members
No charter
No direction
No history
No credibility (Chris has been a member for just 3 months/ 39 posts)
:sosad :sosad :sosad
I said earlier something about an open mind...
Jim
I'm hearing lots of good ideas. I'll review them with our current members, yes we do already have members, and get their opinions on this.
If anyone wants to disparage me, have fun, it's a free country.
Just because I only have 39 posts, doesn't mean this won't work. Yes, please keep an open mind. I'm not looking for sheep. This involves your business reputation and your income.
If anyone wants to disparage me, have fun, it's a free country.
Just because I only have 39 posts, doesn't mean this won't work. Yes, please keep an open mind. I'm not looking for sheep. This involves your business reputation and your income.
We need to educate the public. I have a few ideas like holding customer education seminars. Have people sign up for free, and at random 1 person will get picked for you to do their car for free. You can then show your potential customers the difference between a fully qualified detailer and a hack. If you wait to pick the car after everyone shows up, I'm sure you will get plenty of takers. You'll still get the gawkers and freeloaders which I think is pretty unavoidable.
This is just one idea, we've got plenty more. I don't think I need to spam this forum, so I'll refrain from trying to advertise what we offer.
This is just one idea, we've got plenty more. I don't think I need to spam this forum, so I'll refrain from trying to advertise what we offer.
boogiejoe said:
Your enthusiast, yeah they may go to a seminar (but they also go to Meguiars training as well). Your average person, however, you have to sell them in ten seconds or less about the differences. You ar talking about people who go through swirl-o-matics again and again because it saves them time and it looks good. We live in a world of instant gratification.
So basically you are hoping that your enthusiasts can spread the word. We can talk about more in your forum.
Sorry Jimmy for the left turn in the thread.
Scottwax said:
You asked about how to educate the public. I was referring to only one method. I don't know how effective this would be for someone in your position. I can guarantee that things will change for you eventually. It's common with any business.
Giving away a free detail would only be in the best interest for your business. You would be able to draw plenty of people in to see your operation, and the quality of service you provide. Do you think this would be a positve or negative reaction for potential customers?
Again, this is only 1 idea. If it was the only way to do it, I'm sure you would be doing it already.