Corey Bit Spank
Active member
Mark, so, what you are saying is, your product HIDES swirls? This is stodgy advertising by saying it "removes" swirls. I understand you say it does this "forever," but I do not believe this.
AcrylicWerks Test Car #2
- Thread starter Anthony O.
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Corey Bit Spank
Active member
Furthermore if you do not wash your car before using your product (I believe you said you didn't have to somewhere---HIGHLY recomended though) wouldn't the DIRT be abrassive? And I'm curious, when you're done rubbing to china with your product (I believe in the first test Anthony posted) it took you an hour to do a foot by 2 and a half foot section, is the finish smooth to the touch (be it, like after you clay bar a car?) Otherwise, wouldn't you be, in all your rubbing haste and furry trying to smoosh your product into those swirls to hide them, be rubbing all that contamination into the paint? Doesn't this "seal" it in? Mind you, just washing doesn't get this stuff off of the paint.
Aye-yah... harsh, are we? 
Blegh, I don't get this about "sealing in contaminates" anymore. I used to be all paranoid, and clayed before each new layer of Zaino that has been out for over a week. What if I sandwiched in some contamination?! AHHHH!!! I see Mike Phillips babbling about this all the time.
In my humble opinion, all products are too thin to seal anything in. When you apply a wax or something, the height of a contaminate is higher. With polymers, that means it just bonds to whatever it can.
Corey Bit Spank said:
Blegh, I don't get this about "sealing in contaminates" anymore. I used to be all paranoid, and clayed before each new layer of Zaino that has been out for over a week. What if I sandwiched in some contamination?! AHHHH!!! I see Mike Phillips babbling about this all the time.
In my humble opinion, all products are too thin to seal anything in. When you apply a wax or something, the height of a contaminate is higher. With polymers, that means it just bonds to whatever it can.
Corey Bit Spank
Active member
I don't clay bar as much as I used to. I just like the paint smooth. Is that too much to ask? 
Anthony O.
New member
Test car is still a GO ......
Just looking for the right "sad sack" car tocome along that is either red or black. I did a quick wash for a client today with a red Honda that was in the body shop and it has a lovely case of "oversprayitis" with heavy "swirlmania" that would be perfect for our little test. The only problem will be trying to schedule a time when the car is available for Mark to come out and do his side as the cars owner is a Dr. and I never know when he and the car will be at this hospital and for how long.
My solution is to use the sample bottle of Acrylic Werks that Mark gave me on one half of the hood myself. Mark may object to this, especially if the results are notgreat, claiming that I did not apply it correctly. I understand this but I also disagree with it because if I were a consumer I should be able to just follow the directions and duplicate what Mark does and claims.
I think I will try this as it will give me a first hand account of how the product goes on and I believe I can better report on the product. I'll keep you all updated as things get done.
Anthony
Just looking for the right "sad sack" car tocome along that is either red or black. I did a quick wash for a client today with a red Honda that was in the body shop and it has a lovely case of "oversprayitis" with heavy "swirlmania" that would be perfect for our little test. The only problem will be trying to schedule a time when the car is available for Mark to come out and do his side as the cars owner is a Dr. and I never know when he and the car will be at this hospital and for how long.
My solution is to use the sample bottle of Acrylic Werks that Mark gave me on one half of the hood myself. Mark may object to this, especially if the results are notgreat, claiming that I did not apply it correctly. I understand this but I also disagree with it because if I were a consumer I should be able to just follow the directions and duplicate what Mark does and claims.
I think I will try this as it will give me a first hand account of how the product goes on and I believe I can better report on the product. I'll keep you all updated as things get done.
Anthony
AWMark said:
Mark, if this is the criteria you used to determine that your product has no abrasives then I must conclude that you really have no idea about what you are talking about. Because a product doesn't scratch the surfaces you decribed DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT DOESN'T CONTAIN ABRASIVES. Do you really think that products like Plastx and other plastic polishes also contain no abrasives, because they don't scratch?
Sorry, but you really should stick to promoting your product based on YOUR area of expertise, and don't reveal your ignorance by getting into technical detailing discussions where you really have no knowledge in this area.
Hello To All,
First, Biff your wrong. Now I've seen the end result of some plastic cleaners and polishes. Problem is the customers I run in to were not pleased with the results. Plastic panels were swirled and continued to re-oxidize rather quickly. When I complete the panel there are no swirls to look at and the panel remains in this condition until I recommend they re-apply, usually every 4 months.
Second, remember this demonstration is performed at the spur of the moment. There is no time to send customers out to wash their cars before the demo is performed, so I do the demo in the condition the vehicle arrives in. They are excited with the results and continue to send referrals over to see for themselves.
Third, Corey I also enjoy using clay with my product, but before we knew about clay getting those final results required a lot more rubbing.
Now as for the required rubbing time, that is something that changes with each surface. For my customers there is no time issue to get the desired results. I also understand that for the professional detailer time is an issue, but as I mentioned some time ago, you can use this with a buffer. I don't push this because the average consumer I deal with has no business running a buffer, and that includes me.
In the end, results will always stand head and shoulders above words. That's why I have continued to satisfy my customers and my commercial accounts who no doubt would have been approached by representatives of products some of you use, but are willing to stay with mine.
Mark G.
First, Biff your wrong. Now I've seen the end result of some plastic cleaners and polishes. Problem is the customers I run in to were not pleased with the results. Plastic panels were swirled and continued to re-oxidize rather quickly. When I complete the panel there are no swirls to look at and the panel remains in this condition until I recommend they re-apply, usually every 4 months.
Second, remember this demonstration is performed at the spur of the moment. There is no time to send customers out to wash their cars before the demo is performed, so I do the demo in the condition the vehicle arrives in. They are excited with the results and continue to send referrals over to see for themselves.
Third, Corey I also enjoy using clay with my product, but before we knew about clay getting those final results required a lot more rubbing.
Now as for the required rubbing time, that is something that changes with each surface. For my customers there is no time issue to get the desired results. I also understand that for the professional detailer time is an issue, but as I mentioned some time ago, you can use this with a buffer. I don't push this because the average consumer I deal with has no business running a buffer, and that includes me.
In the end, results will always stand head and shoulders above words. That's why I have continued to satisfy my customers and my commercial accounts who no doubt would have been approached by representatives of products some of you use, but are willing to stay with mine.
Mark G.
Mark,
I have to agree with Biff... you are in the wrong by saying that just because you "restore" bug shields, plexiglass, wind deflectors, etc... that it does not contain abrasives. Using a product with abrasives can leave a surface feeling smooth, looking great, and last a long time. How do you think wood gets so smooth in fine furniture? Certainly not by rubbing it with something that's not abrasive, it just matters how fine the abrasive is. Simply by saying it doesn't leave swirls and you can restore plastic does not mean it has no abrasives. I've read all your posts here and over at web-cars, most of the time you never even answer the questions asked, you just say that your "customers are happy" or "results speak for themselves." Just because eating at McDonald's makes people happy and the results (people are happy and full) speak for themselves, does not mean it's the best option, just that it fills those criteria.
Michael
I have to agree with Biff... you are in the wrong by saying that just because you "restore" bug shields, plexiglass, wind deflectors, etc... that it does not contain abrasives. Using a product with abrasives can leave a surface feeling smooth, looking great, and last a long time. How do you think wood gets so smooth in fine furniture? Certainly not by rubbing it with something that's not abrasive, it just matters how fine the abrasive is. Simply by saying it doesn't leave swirls and you can restore plastic does not mean it has no abrasives. I've read all your posts here and over at web-cars, most of the time you never even answer the questions asked, you just say that your "customers are happy" or "results speak for themselves." Just because eating at McDonald's makes people happy and the results (people are happy and full) speak for themselves, does not mean it's the best option, just that it fills those criteria.
Michael
why cant he just say it fills swirls and lasts a long time thats all he has to say and let people try it. why does he have to sound like a know it all when in fact hes making a fool of himself.:nono
tryin not to flame but there is a point where u gotta be blunt and say we are not stupid and quit tryin to sell us BS facts:nixweiss
tryin not to flame but there is a point where u gotta be blunt and say we are not stupid and quit tryin to sell us BS facts:nixweiss
Must fight urge to flame ignorant salesman, must fight urge.....
Anthony, since you have a sample of this stuff, can you try a little on something with single stage paint and see if the color comes off?
Of course if it does, then "The Infomercial Guy" will claim it was the cloth that was abrasive not his wonder wax. :argue
Anthony, since you have a sample of this stuff, can you try a little on something with single stage paint and see if the color comes off?
Of course if it does, then "The Infomercial Guy" will claim it was the cloth that was abrasive not his wonder wax. :argue
milani
New member
AWMark said:
I have one word for this guy and his plastic miracles......
PLEXUS!!!!!!! :xyxthumbs :xyxthumbs
VetteToVair
New member
I still don't understand how a non-abrasive product can remove scratches and swirls. Can you directly address this question and not refer to your customers' satisfaction?!?!?!?!
Corey Bit Spank
Active member
I just got back from detailing my car with vegetable oil guys. Works great! And i don't have to worry about those pesky abrassives. 
Mark, in all fairness, I'm sure your product is great for the consumer, but I do not believe a professional would be happy with it.
Mark, in all fairness, I'm sure your product is great for the consumer, but I do not believe a professional would be happy with it.
imported_Aurora40
New member
AWMark said:
Mark,
I have noticed you make a lot of stereotypes about products other than your own. You've mentioned waxes create swirls and contain abrasives, when this is only true of some protectant products. Most are non-abrasive and do not cause swirls (though poorly applied, swirls can certainly appear). Now you mention that some customers have problems with plastic polishes therefore they are all really abrasive and all unlike your product. I, and many others here, have had great success with plastic polishes that didn't leave haze, swirls, or anything other than a bright, flawless finish.
If you knew a person who swirled the crap out of his car every time he washed it, would you then cite the soap as being abrasive? Or is it that the person had horrible technique?
When you say that these products don't work, or just leave swirls, or the results don't last long, all you are doing is insulting the intelligence of the people here who have had great success with these very types of products.
You talk a lot about seeing results with your own eyes. And I certainly look forward to the results of you and Anthony getting together again for some swirl testing. But as far as seeing results, I've seen plastic polishes work wonders. And I've seen carnauba waxes (applied in circular motions) leave excellent finishes behind without causing any swirls. So please don't try to tell me I haven't...
Well Guys, I will apologize to all. I feel my approach to this subject was totally wrong. I do not mean to put down the products your using, that was not my intention. I know I started the mud slinging and from there we created quite a battle by protecting our favorite products. My intentions are to bring a new product to the table that most of you would have never encountered unless you were in military. We knew that the only way to convince folks of what this polish was capable of, was to do live demonstrations on the vehicles that pulled up. Eliminated the guessing game. Seven years later, the knowledge of this polish still travels by word of mouth.
When Anthony and I met, the truck that was made available definately had been repainted from the drivers door around to the passenger side fender. The paint job was a mess. When I seen the hood it was a week after Anthony had photographed it. The area he had done was already fading again. The area I did, took a long time and a lot of rubbing, and it came out, o.k., but there was enough gloss there to compete with what Anthony had done a week earlier. I also went back to the area Anthony had done and did a spot on top of his effort, and it turned out even better than my side. What Anthony failed to mention were the areas I worked that still had the original highly oxidized paint. Those areas cleaned up beautifully and effortlessly by hand. My bet is that those areas are still in the same condition I left them in.
Is this product good enough for the professional detailer? Absolutely. Can this product be used with a buffer? Yes. I've seen professionals use this with a buffer and the results are outstanding. I think if Anthony gives it a true test he will be impressed as well.
Six Flags Fiesta Texas has continued to use this product now for five years and they have no intentions of changing even though my polish is about double the cost of the products they used in the past. The maintenence mgr. has been there for 12+ years and had seen several companies come in and want to land that account. We went to the park when they called and spent the day with them detailing one of the water slides. In the end, we got the account. Now, their water slides make it from one cleaning period to the next without re-fading in between. I only mention this because in seven years, I know this is the hardest test this polish has gone through. You get a full compliment of sunshine, heat, humidity, city water, chlorine, pool acid and kids sliding down that surface on mats.
Once this polish is on the surface it only gets easier and easier to go back and polish the same vehicle, meaning there is no failure between applications. When you guys mentioned the time element issue this is one of the reasons I thought it might be appealing to the professional detailer. For Six Flags, what once took 3-4 days to restore can now be done in 1 day.
I'd be willing to let some of you guys look at the MSDS, to get that part out of the way. Like I said the creators of this polish are very protective of it and have not divulged to me why it does what it does. I quit asking and have gone by the results ever since. So far knock on wood, no backfires. I've got to go for now, to all have a nice day.
Mark G.
When Anthony and I met, the truck that was made available definately had been repainted from the drivers door around to the passenger side fender. The paint job was a mess. When I seen the hood it was a week after Anthony had photographed it. The area he had done was already fading again. The area I did, took a long time and a lot of rubbing, and it came out, o.k., but there was enough gloss there to compete with what Anthony had done a week earlier. I also went back to the area Anthony had done and did a spot on top of his effort, and it turned out even better than my side. What Anthony failed to mention were the areas I worked that still had the original highly oxidized paint. Those areas cleaned up beautifully and effortlessly by hand. My bet is that those areas are still in the same condition I left them in.
Is this product good enough for the professional detailer? Absolutely. Can this product be used with a buffer? Yes. I've seen professionals use this with a buffer and the results are outstanding. I think if Anthony gives it a true test he will be impressed as well.
Six Flags Fiesta Texas has continued to use this product now for five years and they have no intentions of changing even though my polish is about double the cost of the products they used in the past. The maintenence mgr. has been there for 12+ years and had seen several companies come in and want to land that account. We went to the park when they called and spent the day with them detailing one of the water slides. In the end, we got the account. Now, their water slides make it from one cleaning period to the next without re-fading in between. I only mention this because in seven years, I know this is the hardest test this polish has gone through. You get a full compliment of sunshine, heat, humidity, city water, chlorine, pool acid and kids sliding down that surface on mats.
Once this polish is on the surface it only gets easier and easier to go back and polish the same vehicle, meaning there is no failure between applications. When you guys mentioned the time element issue this is one of the reasons I thought it might be appealing to the professional detailer. For Six Flags, what once took 3-4 days to restore can now be done in 1 day.
I'd be willing to let some of you guys look at the MSDS, to get that part out of the way. Like I said the creators of this polish are very protective of it and have not divulged to me why it does what it does. I quit asking and have gone by the results ever since. So far knock on wood, no backfires. I've got to go for now, to all have a nice day.
Mark G.
First off, let me say that I am also patiently waiting for pictures of the next demo car...if only to get some pictures up. All this talking and no seeing is hurting my head. Now, some things that kinda irked me...
I think I've read this whole thread from front to back and I don't see any sort of "turf wars" going on...at least not any more than usual here at Autopia. No one would argue if you said something like, "Gold Class has poor durability" or "Zaino may take a few tries before you're an expert at application" We love our favorites, and for the most part, are aware of their shortcomings and would admit to them. But when you make statements about "all waxes causing swirlmarks" and the optical clarity of candles being a good judge of traditional wax, people begin get riled up. Whether or not some wax somewhere on earth contains abrasives, blanket statements like the ones you have made are total bull, and we know it...hopefully you do too. I don't want to judge your product by anything but its performance, which is difficult to do when I can't see it myself...but statements you have made on your website and here on this forum make my mind up for me.
I'd love to see a picture of the work that Anthony did that only lasted 7 days.
You obviously have a very loyal customer base, and I can respect the trust they place in you...I'm sure that it is well founded. But can you just answer the questions without bringing up another longtime customer? I want to know how your product removes swirls with no abrasives...that's all. Simple question, simple answer.
Just "rub 'till the swirls start breaking down"? What does that even mean? How did you get in the position to sell this stuff? If its developed by "some chemists in Germany", then how did you become affiliated with them? Did they teach you exactly what this stuff is before you began selling it? It just sounds to me like you learned how to use it through trial and error.
Sorry for the long one, but after 60 posts and no answers on this thread alone, I am getting a bit frustrated. Would love to see some pics.
AWMark said:
I think I've read this whole thread from front to back and I don't see any sort of "turf wars" going on...at least not any more than usual here at Autopia. No one would argue if you said something like, "Gold Class has poor durability" or "Zaino may take a few tries before you're an expert at application" We love our favorites, and for the most part, are aware of their shortcomings and would admit to them. But when you make statements about "all waxes causing swirlmarks" and the optical clarity of candles being a good judge of traditional wax, people begin get riled up. Whether or not some wax somewhere on earth contains abrasives, blanket statements like the ones you have made are total bull, and we know it...hopefully you do too. I don't want to judge your product by anything but its performance, which is difficult to do when I can't see it myself...but statements you have made on your website and here on this forum make my mind up for me.
AWMark said:
I'd love to see a picture of the work that Anthony did that only lasted 7 days.
AWMark said:
You obviously have a very loyal customer base, and I can respect the trust they place in you...I'm sure that it is well founded. But can you just answer the questions without bringing up another longtime customer? I want to know how your product removes swirls with no abrasives...that's all. Simple question, simple answer.
AWMark said:
Just "rub 'till the swirls start breaking down"? What does that even mean? How did you get in the position to sell this stuff? If its developed by "some chemists in Germany", then how did you become affiliated with them? Did they teach you exactly what this stuff is before you began selling it? It just sounds to me like you learned how to use it through trial and error.
Sorry for the long one, but after 60 posts and no answers on this thread alone, I am getting a bit frustrated. Would love to see some pics.
Anthony O.
New member
Well I would love to post some pictures of the second test car myself but finding the right car is important.
Even though tomorrow is Sunday I will scout around town and try to find a suitable car or truck for a test after church.
I will take pictures and post them if I find a worthy car tomorrow.
Also for the one who asked about using AcrylicWerks on a single stage paint and see if it comes away with color on the rag.....YES it does.
Hence there is a cleaning agent in this product, there has to be. For any product to be labeled a "cleaner" and/or "restorer" it must then have a cleaning agent of some sort, whether it be chemical or mechanical.
As for my side "fading" well that is understandable as there is nothing left in the paint to hold the shine. I did speak with the trucks owner and he said both sides are still shiny but not as shiny as when we first did it. So tomorrow I will pound the streets and come up with a thrasher and put this whole thing to rest once and for all.
Thank You,
Anthony
Even though tomorrow is Sunday I will scout around town and try to find a suitable car or truck for a test after church.
I will take pictures and post them if I find a worthy car tomorrow.
Also for the one who asked about using AcrylicWerks on a single stage paint and see if it comes away with color on the rag.....YES it does.
Hence there is a cleaning agent in this product, there has to be. For any product to be labeled a "cleaner" and/or "restorer" it must then have a cleaning agent of some sort, whether it be chemical or mechanical.
As for my side "fading" well that is understandable as there is nothing left in the paint to hold the shine. I did speak with the trucks owner and he said both sides are still shiny but not as shiny as when we first did it. So tomorrow I will pound the streets and come up with a thrasher and put this whole thing to rest once and for all.
Thank You,
Anthony
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