acid baths on older cars (FinishKare or AutoInt)

T

THERUSE

New member
I plan on buying a new car and decontaminating it myself (with a wash mitt, not a dealer mop) but would like to try it first on an older car rather than learning on a brand new surface.



I'm wondering if the FinishKare or ABC system (FinishKare probably because of their consumer type packaging, as in I don't have to buy a drum of this stuff) can be used on an older car (~1998). From my current limited understanding (and chemistry ignorance) I understand that it essentially corrodes the metal particles on the surface of the paint away (controlled burn if you will).



Older cars might have stone chips all the way to bare metal, perhaps even a rust blossom somewhere, wouldn't these systems eat away those metals as well, or only the rust portion on top of the metal?



And last question: will there be a noticeably difference to an older finish after using 1 of these 2 systems? Or is it more of a âہ“under the hoodâ€Â� change?



Looking forward to your input.
 
I've only used the AutoInt ABC system; I have not yet tried the stuff from FinishKare. That having been said...



I wouldn't hesitate to use either system on an older car, but, since the acids are really pretty mild, I dunno how well they'll do their thing. Once ferrous deposits start to corrode (or you get other rust), the acid might not be strong enough to (dis)solve the problem (much less have any appreciable effect on bare metal). Claying while the acid is dwelling will help a bit.



I also dunno how big a change you'll see, IMO it'll be more like a "really good, thorough wash" than anything else. These products are, *IMO*, milder than they sound. I would wear gloves, though.



FWIW, I wouldn't consider it necessary to practice on an older car, if concern about messing something up is the only consideration. The first time I used ABC it was on my new Audi S8. Risky? I don't/didn't think so. I spoke with the folks at AutoInt and read the product info and decided it was no big deal. I *did* try to keep the acid off the glass and trim as best I could.



Consider that dealerships use a lot of this stuff, and despite what might be desirable, most dealerhship new-car-prep guys don't have any real training/expertise.



Oh, and I found I went through the stuff pretty fast. A few not-small vehicles and I'm pretty much through the 1-gallon jugs of "A" and "B". I found the "one gallon of each" package at AutoInt to be just right for my needs. I sure wouldn't knock the FinishKare stuff though, their acid should be more glass-friendly. But recently, somebody used the FK system and sorta wondered if it was *too* mild...might be worth a search if you haven't tried that already.
 
I recently used the FK system (first and only time so far). I'm not sure I buy into the chemistry that says that acids get trapped in the finish and need to be neutralized, but let's skip that and get to the rail dust, fallout, etc. The argument for using this type of system vs. clay is that the clay scrapes off what is above the surface leaving what is below the surface to continue to damage the finish. My experience with the decon system was that it didn't really do much to remove the rail dust, anyway. I wound up claying afterwards. Another member here who I respect told me that he clays while using the acid step, because it's necessary.



I'm not sure I would take the time to do the decon again; a good wash and clay perhaps would have done the same thing. And the FK step one really has a heavy petroleum distillate smell, was rather annoying (it did, however help at removing some wrap adhesive from my wheels, but I'm not sure there isn't something just as good, IPA maybe).



PS The preceding was MY OPINION. My two cents. YMMV.
 
I've used both and found some hypocrissy(sp?) from both companies, however I like many of their products still. You see both companies claim Oxalic Acid, or any uninhibited acids are bad for the finish, however Finish Kare uses an uninhibited sulfuric acid, bad bad bad, and AutoInt's B has Ethanodoic Acid(sp?) which FK1 claims is a synonym for Oxalic Acid, I did my own research and came to the same conclusion. When I asked Ron about this, he said the amount was minimal and the product "B", had enough buffers that it's nothing to worry about. That being the case, I've tried both products twice(I had enough samples from each company to do 2 vehicles each) and came to the conclusion that while they work, clay is just as effective, and faster in almost every case, in fact in all but one of the vehicles, I had to clay afterwards to remove any remaining contaminants on the surface. They are not without their place however, on each of the vehicles I did, I had clayed before and usually gone through whole 200 gram bars without really getting much out. They are nice products to have for cars that have really been neglected in quite polluted areas(like where I live), I'll probably buy a set just to have for those special cases, haven't decided brand though as both will try to push you towards their product and away from their competitors. I will mention though, that the TSB's that AutoInt are much more recent than the ones Finish Kare has.





*Note*: I am no chemist, so any chemistry related items in the above post is what I've picked up from representatives of both companies, a little searching on the internet, and some reaserch in my old chem 110, and chem 111 books.
 
Well, I agree with the posts so far..

I've used the Autoint system 75-100 times. It has a place. It seldom eliminates the need for clay, but there is no doubt that the system leaves a CLEAN surface.



I agree with Accumulator , there really is no need to practice... in fact, do you really need this system on your 'new' car? Maybe a serious moment with a clay bar, and AIO, will bring that finish all the way back.



I'd go that way first. (Sorry, Ron, I know you're watching..)



Jim
 
gbackus said:
I will mention though, that the TSB's that AutoInt are much more recent than the ones Finish Kare has.
Click to expand...



I noticed that also...and IIRC FK removed some portions of some of those documents, a last name of someone who works there, and part of the Hyundai TSB header.
 
Jim,



When do you use the ABC stuff? When do you feel it is neccessary over just claying?



By the way, congrats on how well the biz has gone. Do you miss the nightclub business, or do you enjoy getting your beauty sleep at night?



SamIam
 
SamIam said:
When do you use the ABC stuff? When do you feel it is neccessary over just claying?
Click to expand...



I'm not Jim, but I'd use it any time you have rust or ferrous particles that clay isn't touching. For instance, one of the trucks I did with the system was a 1996 GMC Sierra, I went through half a blue and a whole red clay bar(meguiars newer clays, i think they are the same as the clay magic ones), and I didn't make a dent in the contamination. I used the ABC as per instructions, and while it didn't remove as much of the fallout/rust as I had hoped, when I clayed afterwards with the blue(mild) clay, ALL of the particles left on the surface were coming out.



Cliffnotes: if clay isn't cutting it, ABC it :)
 
Like some others here, I use the FK1 products. This is

also because I couldn't yet justify trying to buy ABC stuff

in bulk. However, I think they may be loosening their

grip on just selling to big shops or dealerships. They

now offer online sales of their products, and the

prices are competitive. I plan to give them a try

soon just to see how they fair.



All that said, I do like FK1 stuff. I do find (as some others

here will attest), that their stuff does not completely remove

the need for claying. However, I find in most cases that using

the decon kit is sufficient enough that claying is not required

for a complete panel. I now do this as an additional spot

clean on the really tough stuff.



On a much lower scale, I also work with Meguiar's APC+, and

then usually follow up with a neutral ph car shampoo. I find

this works excellent for paint in good condiont that just needs

a stripping off of grime, and old product. I'm not sure

if it can remove the wrapping adhesive film, but a call to

Meguiar's hotline couldn't hurt.
 
SamIam said:
When do you use the ABC stuff? When do you feel it is neccessary over just claying?
Click to expand...



I started using the ABC after I got tired of repeatedly claying (what I believed to be) the same rust blooms off my silver/white vehicles, most of which I purchased new. Seemed like the contamination just kept coming back, even though I'd done everything imaginable to solve the problem (clayed when new, took them in the wrapper, etc.). Since ABCing our vehicles when new, I've only have to deal with *new* ferrous contamination. If it weren't such a dramatic improvement, I would've been the first guy to cry "snake oil" :D



Heh heh, like that Sierra, ABCing the minivan was a bit of a job, had *that* one not worked out so well I *really* would've squawked about it being a waste of time :D



But have plenty of clay on hand, as the "clay while acid is dwelling" really dissolves some kinds of clay (so you have to keep getting new pieces to clay effectively). And clay the whole vehicle, don't just work on what you can see. Stuff that's microscopic (for practical purposes) can cause trouble later. Use plenty of the "acid" step; I sorta did that step to the minivan twice.



And AutoInt was perfectly cool about just selling me one gallon of each (and a box of plastic razorblades).
 
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