Achieving the perfect finish: How to SWAYZE your paint for the highest shine!

[imported_porta]

Do we go progressive from black -> red?

Honestly, I don?t anyone can see any difference on the paint either you used a
black, red, blue or gold pad. They are all very suitable for jeweling the paint. Use the pad you like, but it should be pretty soft.

 

[TimG]

How the heck can I miss this? Todd, thank you for the insight on "jewelling". Now I properly understand the terminology. I think I made a big booboo in another forum; calling a final polish+DA, jewelling. Darn, I feel stupid now.:doh::doh:

 

[Todd@RUPES]

What would be a more suitable pad to use for jewelling?

LC white? LC black? LC red?

The pad that you choose is going to depend on the paint you are working on (and the polish you are using). You want to use the most aggressive pad (IMO) that will leave the best finish possible.

All too often we get caught up in the "softer is better" mindset, which isn't really true. Let us say that we are working on a super hard clear coat such as most Audi's. Because the paint is so hard, even a white pad may not have any mechanical action against the paint. The white foam itself does not cause any abrasion against the rock hard paint.

Going to a softer pad will not create a better finish because the pad is softer, since (in this case) the white pad is not abrading the finish to begin with. You cannot get less abrasion then no abrasion, if that makes sense. Going to a softer pad may lengthen the time required to break down the abrasives however, so you may end up taking longer to get the same results.

On most paints the Lake Country black foam is my personal favorite for 'jeweling'. It is soft enough to finish the vast majority of paints to a very high finish, while still providing enough 'power' to break the abrasives down quickly. If the paint is very soft and I find that I getting faint holograms then I might switch to the red foam.

Keep in mind that the foam helps hold the abrasives, so some polishes may just work better with some foams. You might get a better finish with a white pad and a particular abrasive, even on soft paint, then you would with a softer pad, just because of the way everything works together.

What I am trying to say? (Instead of rambling) That there are no hard rules when it comes to this stuff.

My recommendation would be to start with the black foam, but don't be afraid to use your artist's eyes to experiment!

How the heck can I miss this? Todd, thank you for the insight on "jewelling". Now I properly understand the terminology. I think I made a big booboo in another forum; calling a final polish+DA, jewelling. Darn, I feel stupid now.:doh::doh:

Hi Tim, no need to feel stupid. Long before I used jeweling as a term for final polishing w/ rotary, Killrwheels of Autogeek fame had used the term for polishing with a DA. Is he right? Am I right? Are you wrong? No, No, and No. Use whatever techniques you can to get the best results you can, and that is always the right answer.

We can call it jeweling, burnishing, final polishing, supercalifraglisticexpialadociousing, gemming, glazing, surfacing, etc. The results are more important then the name we attach to the process!

 

[imported_wfedwar]

How the heck can I miss this? Todd, thank you for the insight on "jewelling". Now I properly understand the terminology. I think I made a big booboo in another forum; calling a final polish+DA, jewelling. Darn, I feel stupid now.:doh::doh:

You shouldn't feel stupid at all. I've always taken "jeweling" or "burnishing" to simply mean using fine abrasives to increase gloss, rather than remove visible imperfections (the latter I call polishing or compounding). I don't think the tools used matter much, as you could achieve the same results even by hand (theoretically, anyway). I always do my "jeweling" by Flex because I have severe hologram phobias.

 

[Detailing Technology]

Nice documents, very helpful.

I love this step of polishing. Very rewarding.

 

[dcrc]

The pad that you choose is going to depend on the paint you are working on (and the polish you are using). You want to use the most aggressive pad (IMO) that will leave the best finish possible.

All too often we get caught up in the "softer is better" mindset, which isn't really true. Let us say that we are working on a super hard clear coat such as most Audi's. Because the paint is so hard, even a white pad may not have any mechanical action against the paint. The white foam itself does not cause any abrasion against the rock hard paint.

Going to a softer pad will not create a better finish because the pad is softer, since (in this case) the white pad is not abrading the finish to begin with. You cannot get less abrasion then no abrasion, if that makes sense. Going to a softer pad may lengthen the time required to break down the abrasives however, so you may end up taking longer to get the same results.

On most paints the Lake Country black foam is my personal favorite for 'jeweling'. It is soft enough to finish the vast majority of paints to a very high finish, while still providing enough 'power' to break the abrasives down quickly. If the paint is very soft and I find that I getting faint holograms then I might switch to the red foam.

Keep in mind that the foam helps hold the abrasives, so some polishes may just work better with some foams. You might get a better finish with a white pad and a particular abrasive, even on soft paint, then you would with a softer pad, just because of the way everything works together.

What I am trying to say? (Instead of rambling) That there are no hard rules when it comes to this stuff.

My recommendation would be to start with the black foam, but don't be afraid to use your artist's eyes to experiment!

Would the LC kompressor pad (black) will suitable for such jewelling task? Or LC classic flat is more suitable?

From this thread, am i correct to say that jewelling process is simply trying to flaten the surface as much as possible? This lead me to think about sanding which is also to "flaten" the paint surface.

 

[Rob T]

Would the LC kompressor pad (black) will suitable for such jewelling task? Or LC classic flat is more suitable?

From this thread, am i correct to say that jewelling process is simply trying to flaten the surface as much as possible? This lead me to think about sanding which is also to "flaten" the paint surface.

:huh:

Sanding is as far from "jeweling" as you can possibly get!

And no, sanding does *not* flatten the paint.

 

[dcrc]

:huh:

Sanding is as far from "jeweling" as you can possibly get!

And no, sanding does *not* flatten the paint.

Why would you say sanding is *not* flatten the paint? Then what is wet-sanding or dry sanding all about?

I also wonder how much clear is going to be removed from this jewelling process. Any one has something to share?

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Why would you say sanding is *not* flatten the paint? Then what is wet-sanding or dry sanding all about?

I also wonder how much clear is going to be removed from this jewelling process. Any one has something to share?

When we talk about paint defect removal we can talk about the leveling of paint, in the terms of removing large, visible variations in paint depth (orange peel, shrinkage, texture, runs) and also making the paint smooth like a mirror.

It is very possible uneven, non-level paint that still has a great shine, as well as having perfectly level, even paint that has little shine.

Wet sanding, for the most part, is done to make the paint more level. Large high spots are removed.

Jewelling on the other had will not removal orange peel and large changes in the variations in the paint, but will make the paint smoother by removing very small variations in the paint.

It comes down to how we define certain words. To some flat may me ultra refined like a mirror, and to others flat may mean like a prairie opposed to a mountain range.

Sanding will leave thousands and thousands of visible scratches, so in that sense the paint is not flat (again depending on the definition.) However if the sanding removed a ton of orange peel (even though there is still lots of little scratches) it could be viewed as flatter (then the orange peeled paint).

As far as the paint removed during jewelling there are a lot of variables that simply change the amount. I would say on most healthy and not crazily soft paints the amount removed would be significantly less the .1 mils, perhaps something like .02-.05 mils.

 

[Todd@RUPES]

Also the Black Kompressor pad is a great pad for final polishing/jeweling most paints! :clap:

 

[Rob T]

When we talk about paint defect removal we can talk about the leveling of paint, in the terms of removing large, visible variations in paint depth (orange peel, shrinkage, texture, runs) and also making the paint smooth like a mirror.

It is very possible uneven, non-level paint that still has a great shine, as well as having perfectly level, even paint that has little shine.

Wet sanding, for the most part, is done to make the paint more level. Large high spots are removed.

Jewelling on the other had will not removal orange peel and large changes in the variations in the paint, but will make the paint smoother by removing very small variations in the paint.

It comes down to how we define certain words. To some flat may me ultra refined like a mirror, and to others flat may mean like a prairie opposed to a mountain range.

Sanding will leave thousands and thousands of visible scratches, so in that sense the paint is not flat (again depending on the definition.) However if the sanding removed a ton of orange peel (even though there is still lots of little scratches) it could be viewed as flatter (then the orange peeled paint).

As far as the paint removed during jewelling there are a lot of variables that simply change the amount. I would say on most healthy and not crazily soft paints the amount removed would be significantly less the .1 mils, perhaps something like .02-.05 mils.

Thanks Todd. The bolded part is the point that I was making, especially in relation to "jeweling".

 

[CEE DOG]

Really great write up, documentation, and illustrations! Thank you Todd

 

[bmw5541]

Really great write up, documentation, and illustrations! Thank you Todd

I told you it was a great write up.

 

[83Esprit]

I feel like I'm in college again. Got my note pad out taking notes. I agree with an earlier post that a pdf of these write-ups is needed.

This is really great information based on knowledge and a lot of experience.

By the way, the Ferrari is STUNNING!

Louis

 

[CEE DOG]

I told you it was a great write up.

Thanks for linking it. You were right!

 

[imported_wendell jarvis]

:thumbup:

Thanks Todd. The bolded part is the point that I was making, especially in relation to "jeweling".

:thumbup:

 

[imported_JSFM35X]

Great Thread on Jewling

I just finished reading your thread. Awesome job, but it left me with a few questions:
Let me state that I am a experienced Newbie. Swirl removal has been my frustration. My car is an 08 M35X, Black/Black.

I own an original PC, a Flex Da and now if wonder if I need a Rotary? (Don't want halogram marks) I want a flat black paint job that looks swirl free in the sun. I can't say I have ever gotten my car there yet. I bought the PC b/c I could not do it by hand on black, the flex bc the PC was not doing it. I know full well I might be me and not the polish or equipment. Where can one learn hands on?

Does, TID or Proper Auto Care have a detail fest? or a show car garage? If so where is it located?

I guess enough questions for my first post.

Thanks,

Jeff