a Zaino theory....

also its kind of the whole fbody Tropicare vs Zaino thing- and the supposed bonding issues which supposedly apply to TC as well and that made me wonder if the products were really that much different from each other? And also whether mild cleaners hurt a products durability-if that's the case then that explains Zaino's great durability.
 
Burlyq said:
The old Z2 is water based, but the new z2 is not. I'm not sure of the base, but I don't think it's oil either. I know it's not silicone or Acrylic either. But there are a couple more possibilties, and I think Zaino likes the fact it is a secret for now.
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Z2 Pro is also water-based.
 
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not a chemist so i don't quite understand how a polymer(oil based particle?) can be disolved in or mixed with water- [/B]





Oil-in-Water Emulsion:

Synthetic polymers manufacturers are getting away from using petroleum distillate based silicones and are now using Polydimethylsiloxane silicones to produce a mild oil-in-water emulsion. Being primarily water based these are safe for all types of pant and are biodegradable.



Chemists also use these water-in-oil emulsions to reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize the emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of the polymers products. Emulsion polymerisation takes place in an emulsion typically incorporating water, monomer, and surfactant.



The most common type of emulsion is an oil-in-water emulsion, in which droplets of monomer (the oil) are emulsified (with surfactants) in a continuous phase of water. If the polymerisation is carried out in the absence of surfactants, it is generally known as a suspension polymerisation.



The advantages of emulsion polymerisation include: More complete surface coverage to prevent contact between unprotected areas, viscosity remains close to that of water and is not dependent on molecular weight and the final product can be used as is and does not generally need to be altered or processed. (I'm not a chemist either justadumbarchitect)

JonM
 
wannafbody said:
i'm not affiliated with any product so there is nothing "funny" about this thread. I do have to admit that Zaino is a very durable product and I have to give Sal an A+ for marketing (make a durable product and then convince people to layer it some definitly going overboard. My personal favorite was the 75 layers of Zaino thread).
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Please indicate where anyone, including Sal, ever recommended more than 5-6 coats and this includes 3 layers maximum recommendation for Z5 very mild surface marring hiding prior to Z2 or Z2-PRO.



Because someone, not me (I'm too old and lazy), likes layering a product that is layable, easily applied and buffed to some absurd number does not indicate the manufacturer mapped this plan.



Where are you getting your info and which is it, have you or have you not ever used Zaino? If so, I am positive that it was incorrectly. :rolleyes:
 
Zaino bonds well over many things, long ago, I tried it over LG, wth no issues. Since I have applied Z2 as well as Z2Pro over several different products. One thing I personally have observed is that many products are robust and bond well interchangeably. The nature of the basic chemical is unchanged by the name change as in "brand"name. IMHO, the genetics of these products is similar enough that bonding issues are rather the subjective opinions of the observer. Prepped surfaces: I have used definate oil based products and applied Z2Pro with no problem at all concerning bonding. Durability? Darn, thats beyond what I do...I tend not to leave a product untouched or on the car long enough to observe the issue, and as long as I have the new product (s) flowing my way...I dont plan to. (thinking of obtaining some junk panel to test durability. Hmmmm Collinite...... wonder how that looks on a light color ?? LOL !



A wierd aside: I edited this post and for some reason, the post was duplicated and there were 2 posts instead of just the edit...:nixweiss AND my comments on Z concerning marketing were wiped, I apologize for this screw up.
 
mochamanz said:
I give Sal a C- for marketing.... His "A" is for customer service....IMO
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Gotta agree with ya here.



Megs, Mothers, Turtle wax are examples of good marketing companies. I'm sure if Zaino wanted to they could be on every shelf like these CO's, but I think they are just more interested in making a good product and letting the quality itself set the market.
 
i just get a kick at how defensive some Z users get because someone makes fun of overzealous layer buffs -i tend to agree that most "polymer" sealants are far more similar in nature than different- as for correct info who knows-there have been claims all over the place about wether Z is water based or not(even in this thread) maybe someday i'll give it a try-as of now i got too much other stuff to use up-peace
 
wannafbody said:
i just get a kick at how defensive some Z users get because someone makes fun of overzealous layer buffs -i tend to agree that most "polymer" sealants are far more similar in nature than different- as for correct info who knows-there have been claims all over the place about wether Z is water based or not(even in this thread) maybe someday i'll give it a try-as of now i got too much other stuff to use up-peace
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Wannafbody,



I'd like to make a suggestion: Instead of having to siphon through all this information and trying to decide who is right and who is wrong, pick up the phone and call Sal. Sal will be more than happy to squash any concerns or misconception you may have regarding Zaino Products. Sal will tell you whatever you what to know about his product (with a few exceptions, of course).



Instead of getting the information second or third hand, go striaght to the guy that can answer your questions.



Here is the number straight from the website: 732-833-8800, just ask for Sal Zaino (he usually answers the phone anyway). The best time is probably before noon EST. Do not call the toll free number, that number is strictly for customer service (shipping, ordering, etc). The call will be well worth the time and ya may learn something about Zaino Products.



David
 
wannafbody said:
i just get a kick at how defensive some Z users get because someone makes fun of overzealous layer buffs -i tend to agree that most "polymer" sealants are far more similar in nature than different- as for correct info who knows-there have been claims all over the place about wether Z is water based or not(even in this thread) maybe someday i'll give it a try-as of now i got too much other stuff to use up-peace
Click to expand...



I come in peace.... But I have read your posts concerning Z products over time, and I am just wondering why these type topics continually come up? My question is this: You do not, have not, and do not intend to use Z2(Pro) according to what I read from you. What better product(s) do you recommend ? With no disrespect to you, it seems you are bothered by the popularity of Z products. I am no zealot, and actually I find your posts interesting. What do you have that you recommend that is effective for the qualities sought after by Z users? Me, I am always trying new stuff. Years ago , I got breathtaking results from Megs products and still do, (methinks some of the old stuff is better than NXT) but the hobby has me always looking for something new. Something with radically better qualities, What do you recommend? I hope your posts are leading us somewhere.:xyxthumbs



(Another wierd thing, the post number is the same for both posts today so far, no biggie, but I wonder if my puter is broke... or is Autopia in the process of upgrading and these small errors are the result of background changes?)
 
Wannafbody,

First of all I must apologize for some of my comments in my last post. Personal attacks is not my style. :o



Second, follow-up on dternst's suggestion and call Sal about any concerns about detailing and Zaino products. He is a great source not only for his product line but detailing and the detailing business in general.

The gaps you mentioned are present but will be quickly filled with products that meet Zaino standards.
 
-I'm not a chemist so i don't quite understand how a polymer(oil based particle?) can be disolved in or mixed with water-







Oil in water ? Ever hear of milk ? Its called a colloidal suspension. Microscopic oil "particles mixed into a water base. Both substance qualities are mingled in this manner. One carries the other. I believe FMJ has this quality. Other more obvious ones are LG and FF (finish first Polish)
 
The colloidal suspension method is a way of delivering a product to obtain a goal, be it economy (active ingredient too concentrated that a marketable quantity might seem to be a rip off that is, a dilution) , or some functional goal.... but it is a method which while employed in past products, do not render it outdated..... nobody can say a laser is outdated, but its really "old technology" 50+ years old in fact. Age does not mean irrelevance.
 
wow-very interesting-i guess your saying if the particle is small enough it will stay suspended in the water vs a larger particle floating on the surface of the water?
 
what i've read elsewhere is that the polymers/resins some manufacturers use do bond to oils- hence entire product lines being compatible-does that affect durablility? i don't know but manufacturers have been blending waxes,oils and synthetics for over 30 years
 
wannafbody said:
what i've read elsewhere is that the polymers/resins some manufacturers use do bond to oils- hence entire product lines being compatible-does that affect durablility? i don't know but manufacturers have been blending waxes,oils and synthetics for over 30 years
Click to expand...



So you're bargaining that the chemist designed the product to work with all oils, not just the oils contained in the product?
 
wannafbody said:
wow-very interesting-i guess your saying if the particle is small enough it will stay suspended in the water vs a larger particle floating on the surface of the water?
Click to expand...



Yes, its the way usually incompatable substances can be blended in order to accomplish desired tasks, be it sealing, polishing , whatever. That is why I do not worry much about V.O.C. compliance ruining products. There are many clever ways to still deliver product to surface without any volatile solvents being involved. I guess it may depend on what is acceptable to the user, what is marketable. I am optimistic :)
 
Corey-within in their line of products, yes-mixing product lines may/maynot have an undesirable affect on durability. That's why a stand alone product may have greater durability because its not chemically compromised-IMO all the LSP sealants have some kind of polymer in them. Those polymers all come from the same source-OIL. I don't believe for a minute that any 1 company has a MIRACLE POLYMER that no one else has access to.
 
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