a Zaino theory....

W

wannafbody

wannafbody
it seems the reason Zaino doesn't bond well over oily products is because it has no cleaners in it-so the surface needs to be pre-cleaned prior to Z's application(old Z1)-most other products are engineered to slightly clean a surface to assure bonding action-in other words Zaino is really designed to be a stand alone product whereas most other products are designed to be more compatible with other detailing products-maybe the lack of cleaning agents is what makes it durable but also makes it less versatile than other products-as for ZFX-is it really neccessary?
 
No ZFX is not necessary if one chooses to use Z1.



No ZFX does not clean. Surface must be prepped to accept Zaino polishes. This means it should be as oil-free as possible.



True there are no other sealants or protectants that mimic the Zaino system.There are no sealants or waxes that have "almost instant curing" with and addition of an additive like ZFX that will allow application of 3 distinct layers in one day.



Actually, I can not think of any product that is a "system" like Zaino. A very unique and well engineered product. :xyxthumbs
 
Z1 is a precleaner to my knowledge-Zaino is a system that isn't designed to work well with other manufaturers products-a lack of cleaners isn't always a desirable attribute even IF thats what makes a product more durable-i can see how this post can be viewed as antagonistic and it wasn't meant to come across that way-sorry
 
Z1 is a pre-cleaner and gloss enhance by product definition. Z1 is not a pre-cleaner in terms of applying it over a oily or previously waxed surface. That is the reason for the Dawn or any degreaser step prior to the application of Z1.



The attributes of a protectant with cleaning ability (i.e NXT, mother's cleaner wax, etc) is that both steps can be perform at the same time. Zaino separates these steps for obvious reasons.



Zaino never stated that it is more than just a protectant. This is true with most sealants and pure carnuabas (WG, UPP, BF, SG, P21S, Souveran, etc.). So the fact that Z2,Z2-PRO and Z5 do not clean is not unique.



Yes, Zaino will not adhere to a prep done with Meg #80 (full of oils and fillers) for example but there many non-oil /filler polishes that will mate well with the Zaino system.



Will Zaino offer a paint cleanser that will complete the system? Yes.

When. :nixweiss ;)
 
Although I would not state categorically that a product that is formulated with oils will abort the cross linking or bonding process of a polymer just that the process may not be as complete, and its strength and durability maybe affected.



It's my belief that's why Sal recommends a strong detergent (he's been in the automotive paint business long enough to know the effect they would have on paint / vinyl etc) to clean oil from the surface as a prep, which would ensure Zanio's durability

JonM
 
i'm not saying that Zaino is bad just that it has gaps in the "system" and seems to be designed with a different philosophy from most other products-guess that's what makes it a niche product-maybe by design maybe by accident
 
gaps- system compatible polishes, lack of a dedicated pre-cleaner, different as in the polymer is not designed to bond over oil even though it is a petroleum based product (from what i've been able to figure out)-the polymer might be oil based but not the product(for clarification)
 
wannafbody...you sound very mixed up...where do you come up with your ideas?



I don't think any "real" polymer sealant is designed to bond over oils.
 
Many products have the characteristics you mention.



Zaino is a paint protection system, not a paint correction/prep system.



You seem to be a little anti-Zaino on all the boards I see you post on...just move on if you don't like it.
 
i've never used it so i'm not anti Zaino- i can't quite understand how an oil based polymer(any one) can't be compatible with other oil based products unless maybe its chemically similar to Klasse(acryllic-even tho its a type of polymer too) i think because i've read posts different places and try to reason to questions i might have -that's why i asked about the difference between resins and polymers in an effort to learn more-take Gold Class for example- it has slight cleaners and polishing oils in it so it isn't just a case of cleaners removing all the oils that makes a polymer bond-in fact at MOL someone claims that oils "help a polymer bond" maybe its just certain polymers:nixweiss
 
that makes sense then-I was misinformed- thanks-so i could ansume any of the water based polymer type products like UPP and Wolfgang would have similar behavior? also cleaners aren't needed as water is a natural cleaner
 
True-but after that post someone posted that Zaino was petroleum based and there were posts about Z2 seperating-and Steve emailed me and said that TC was petroleum based but he didn't know about Zaino because Sal never gave him that info-I'm not a chemist so i don't quite understand how a polymer(oil based particle?) can be disolved in or mixed with water- but that explains why Z is clear and doesn't darken paint(which can be a desirable trait on certain colors) as for the durability-Zaino is pretty hard to beat-certainly a good product
 
wannafbody said:
gaps-non system compatible polishes, lack of a dedicated pre-cleaner, different as in the polymer is not designed to bond over oil even though it is a petroleum based product (from what i've been able to figure out)
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I don't believe Zaino is petroleum based.



I believe Sal is working on a polish or swirl remover that you can apply Z2 or Z5 over without washing to remove oils.



It takes time to come up with stuff like that. I know I had test bottles of Blue Moose from Clearkote 2 years ago and it is just now coming to the market. No one wants to release a product without adequate testing and the confidence it will work as intended once in a paying customer's hands.
 
BradE said:
Zaino is not an oil based polymer, and never has been, it's water based.
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The old Z2 is water based, but the new z2 is not. I'm not sure of the base, but I don't think it's oil either. I know it's not silicone or Acrylic either. But there are a couple more possibilties, and I think Zaino likes the fact it is a secret for now.



More importantly, people overplay bonding issues when it comes to Zaino, I have had good luck with it over many types of products, Paint Cleansers, AIO, other sealants SG and Wolf, and even carnuba. I am not saying I recommend it, but many times I detail when I'm tired, or when I'm doing friends and familys cars, and I don't feel like doing 6 hour detail, and Zaino improves the surface of just about anything. I had a fishing buddy who sold his truck, and I detailed it (For Free) by putting Z2Pro over SG that was already on it and it looked very nice. The best way to use Zaino is to put it on a stripped surface, but since most of us detail our cars regularly, you can put it over many different products. I have never put Zaino on top of another product and had any visual problems.
 
I'm not a chemist so i don't quite understand how a polymer(oil based particle?) can be disolved in or mixed with water- [/B]
Click to expand...


Imulsify, maybe? I think Steve used to distribute Zaino so he should know something.

ZaneO said:
Funny that you asked if TC was a water based product like Zaino.
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I think there are many things funny with this thread.



Lets see if I'm hearing right, Fbody says:

Zaino doesn't bond well over products.

Zaino has gaps and is a um a Niche product.

Doesn't have cleaning properties so that makes it undesirable.

Zaino seperates, lol.

explains why Z is clear and doesn't darken paint(which can be a desirable trait on certain colors) as for the durability-Zaino is pretty hard to beat-certainly a good product.



And my personal favorite:

wannafbody said:
i've never used it so i'm not anti Zaino-
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Fbody talks about Zaino just as much as I do and I use it 4 times a week at least, and he has never tried it. What's up dude, just curious? Go try Zaino then tell us whatcha think.
 
i'm not affiliated with any product so there is nothing "funny" about this thread. I do have to admit that Zaino is a very durable product and I have to give Sal an A+ for marketing (make a durable product and then convince people to layer it some definitly going overboard. My personal favorite was the 75 layers of Zaino thread). I still say it is a high end niche product line and thats it appeal,nothing bad about that. IMO the new Z2PRO sounds as if its a very interesting product and looks great on yellow and silver-in fact if i had a light colored car i'd probably buy some-as for ZFX i admit i'm a little sceptical about it,not sure if it isn't marketing more than function. Burlq had some good info in his posts and thats exactly the kind of info that needed to be posted. For reference i'll knock some other porducts to be fair- NXT is IMO too reflective and has a plastic look on large flat panels, #26 could use some more gloss, and Tropicare doesn't bead nice tight beads like Collinite 845, and Collinite 845 doesn't have the crisp clear reflections of the newer polymers-hope everyone doesn't think i'm a bad guy for asking Zaino questions-after all this is a product discussion forum
 
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