A Jeep Wrangler Question

Pinging only when the tranny switches to the last gear is normal:confused: I mean if that's the case, then I'm fine with that. It just seems like something is wrong.
 
Alright, I just got back from the dealership. I'm upset. They took it out twice and heard it both times. They do not feel that it is fuel related. They said they felt like it was drivetrain related. They checked it over and said they could find nothing wrong with the vehicle. They told me it is "drive train drone." They said it's normal. I'm upset because I really don't believe that is what's wrong with it. Although I pray I'm wrong. I plan to take an automatic Unlimited out and see if I can replicate that sound. If so, then it's normal.

Can I ask a favor from you all? If anyone here has a V6 Wrangler Unlimited, can you take it out for a good length drive (the engine has to be warmed up and slightly under strain), role the windows down, and drive it until it shifts into the LAST gear at 1500 RPM and listen. Do you hear a funny noise start at that point? It only will start to happen at that point. I'd greatly appreciate it.
 
ahunt01 said:
Alright, I just got back from the dealership. I'm upset. They took it out twice and heard it both times. They do not feel that it is fuel related. They said they felt like it was drivetrain related. They checked it over and said they could find nothing wrong with the vehicle. They told me it is "drive train drone." They said it's normal. I'm upset because I really don't believe that is what's wrong with it. Although I pray I'm wrong. I plan to take an automatic Unlimited out and see if I can replicate that sound. If so, then it's normal.

Can I ask a favor from you all? If anyone here has a V6 Wrangler Unlimited, can you take it out for a good length drive (the engine has to be warmed up and slightly under strain), role the windows down, and drive it until it shifts into the LAST gear at 1500 RPM and listen. Do you hear a funny noise start at that point? It only will start to happen at that point. I'd greatly appreciate it.
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I hope you were able to resolve your problem. A great place to look for help would be jeepsunlimited.com the number 1 place online for Jeep bulletin boards. I think the dealership is giving you BS. I had a 95 Wrangler and it never pinged. The 95 had pretty much a similiar engine to you. The engine is bullet proof - it has been around since AMC. The unlimited ought to ride better - I remember how highway driving sucked. Oh and so did the fuel economy.
 
Ah the memories are flooding back to me, highway noise and getting fuel all the time. Had a ping one time with mine, ending up being a loose plug wire. Man that engine is sooo easy to work on, change plugs and wires in about 15 minutes.



Keep on the dealership, maybe try a different one, second opinion never hurts.
 
Cool, thanks for the messageboard recommendation! I'm always looking for a good Jeep messageboard to join. Oh, I have an appointment for another dealership Monday. I'm hoping I'll get some kind of satisfaction. Also, I plan to test-drive an Unlimited why I'm waiting.

I figure it like this, if I don't get it fixed, and no one can find anything wrong, then I'll just try higher test gas. If it still pings, then I'll just live with it. If the pinging messes up the powertrain within 7 years/70k miles then the waranty will cover it.
 
Sounds like the engine is pinging under load. This will happen when you are in a higher gear at too low an rpm. Shifting down will usually alleviate the pinging. This sounds like it's happening to you. Some engines are more sensitive to others in this regard.



Same thing sometimes happens in my car. If the engine is running at too low an rpm and I accelerate hard it will sometimes ping. The pinging stops when I downshift and the rpms go up. If you have an automatic this can be a bit more problematic than with a manual.



Gas quality is a factor too. I run only name-band (Exxon, Mobil, Texaco, etc) 93 octane in my car. Try and use higher octane and see what happens. If the pinging stops then you need to use a higher octane. Plus stay away from the "Sheetz" gas. It's named that for a reason. :p



That's a cool looking Jeep! The more I look at the color, the more I like it. :xyxthumbs I hope to buying a Jeep Wrangler within a few years myself. Good luck solving your problem.
 
Thanks! Yea I love Z2-pro'ing it :) Since I took the pictures, I must have about 5 coats of Z2-Pro on it. The paint looks so wet it almost looks like slime lol. Heh, your wording is almost identical to the dealerships. They recommended I just turn off overdrive when the pinging occurs. Although, that seems like it just masks the problem imho. I'll see what the other dealership says on Monday, and if I get no where then I'll just try a higher octane and drive it w/the ping. Hopefully this next dealership will do their job and fix it. I can't get no, satis-faction, lol. :p
 
ahunt01 said:
Thanks! Yea I love Z2-pro'ing it :) Since I took the pictures, I must have about 5 coats of Z2-Pro on it. The paint looks so wet it almost looks like slime lol. Heh, your wording is almost identical to the dealerships. They recommended I just turn off overdrive when the pinging occurs. Although, that seems like it just masks the problem imho. I'll see what the other dealership says on Monday, and if I get no where then I'll just try a higher octane and drive it w/the ping. Hopefully this next dealership will do their job and fix it. I can't get no, satis-faction, lol. :p
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I hear ya on the Zaino. :xyxthumbs My newly painted red car currently has about 5 coats of a combination of Z5 and Z2 Pro topped with Z8. It's looking very nice and I can detect a definite difference in durability with the Z2 Pro/Z8 combination. I just came back from a 3000 mile trip. It was filthy due to some nasty rains on the way home. I washed it and the paint was still as smooth as before I left. That wasn't the case with the "old style" Z2/Z6 combo where I found that after a trip the paint surface was no longer smooth.



At any rate, I'm not recommending bandaiding the pinging problem. Pinging isn't good and you don't always hear it, which isn't a good thing either. You don't want constant pinging because it can damage your engine in the short and long run.



However it sounds like a similar problem to my car in that it only happens under load. Your engine is working hardest at load, when you are at low rpm in a higher gear and accelerate hard. In this scenario, shifting into a lower gear is a good thing to do for a lot of reasons.



If you are driving at under highway speeds and don't need OD it might not be a bad idea to turn the OD off or shift into a lower gear. I often do this with my AOD van when accelerating uphill because I don't want it to shift into OD at 45 mph going up a steep incline. It's easier on the engine and tranny if it stays in a lower gear and the rpms are higher. With my manual tranny cars I always shift down when accelerating uphill. In essence you would be doing the same thing and thus preventing the pinging. But if the pinging is happening all the time it should be addressed ASAP.



My car has a pinging problem usually when I'm travelling in Canada and using a lower octane (highest octane there is 91 and my car likes 93). Up in the Great White North it has also run rich and backfired too! As soon as I cross over to the States and fill up with 93 octane it's fine so it's definitely gas-related.



Some cars are just sensitive to gas quality and yours might be one of them. On my road trips I sometimes will get pinging from one tank of gas and after filling up with another brand or at a different station it'll be fine. Gas quality will often vary from station to station, brand to brand.



I recommend that you try putting in a higher quality 87 first (Sheetz is awful gas) and if that doesn't work, try 89 and then 93 and see if the pinging goes away. Basically you are troubleshooting here, the more info you have and the more things you can rule out, the closer you come to fixing it. If you can find a brand or station that works for you then try and stick to it, although that sometimes can be difficult, especially when you roam from home.



I'd definitely have the car hooked up and see if a code comes up. You might be having a problem with your mass air sensor. The computer might be sensing an overly rich condition at a certain rpm and leaning out your engine, hence the pinging under load. Unfortunately today's engines must operate within strict parameters when it comes to emissions and sometimes things get out of whack and are difficult to track down and diagnose, especially if they are intermittant and the "Check Engine" light doesn't come on. If you don't throw a code it can be difficult or impossible to fix and the dealership won't do a thing for you because by their definition the car isn't broke so they won't fix it.



Can you adjust the timing on your car? Perhaps it's set high and bringing it down will alleviate the problem as well. Unfortunately with my cars the timing can't be adjusted but perhaps you have this option.



I've had my car checked out and it comes out fine with regards to codes but it will still ping under certain conditions. The dealer always said "It's fine" and sent me on my way. My car's ECU is supposed to detect the pinging and dial back timing but it doesn't seem to do that all the time. I'm thinking of doing a good fuel injector cleaning and am wondering if there are any carbon build up on the valves. This often causes pinging on older cars. My car is 4 years old and approaching 60k miles so this could be a factor. I don't think this is the case with your new car though so I'm wondering if it's your sensors or timing.



Right now I'd get the crap gas out of the tank and put good gas in and see if the pinging is eliminated. . By "good gas" I mean name brand first, then try higher octane. If the problem goes away then at least you know it's treatable and you can determine if paying more for gas is easier than hauling your car into the dealership and hoping they satisfy you. In the meantime, good luck and please keep us posted. :)
 
No I can't adjust the timing of my Jeep. I know nothing about engines. Well I have an appointment with another dealership tomorrow morning, but yeah, I doubt they'll fix the problem. I hope they do though. I plan to take a Jeep Unlmited for a test drive while waiting, so I can go to the yahoos in the service department and say "look, I know it's not normal, the other vehicles identical to mine don't do it!" Of course, they might for all I know.

At any rate, yeah, I f I get no satisfaction, then I'll experiment with the gas. I've already burned the 7-11 gas out and am now running Exxon 87 octane gas. It still pings. I may end up having to try a higher octane if I get nothing from the dealership. I have a 7 year/70,000 mile powertrain waranty. So, if they can't fix it, then I'm saying piss on it. If the engine blows up before then, then it's not my fault/problem. The dealership will have to fix it, as it'll throw some codes finally lol.

I tell ya' all what, if something like that happens, this will be the last American vehicle I ever own in my lifetime...
 
Be careful, that 7 year/70,000 mile "powertrain" warranty might not cover blown head gaskets or a holed piston. That sort of thing might be subject to the standard 3 year/36,000 bumper-to-bumper warranty. :( But at least you have time to figure it out and if it blows, so be it.



You're right, it should NOT ping, especially if the factory calls for 87 octane. With my engine the spec is for 91 octane minimum and my engine doesn't like anything less than 93, especially under load. Fortunately the pinging problem is rare and 99% of the time the car runs just fine. If your car is pinging a good deal of the time it's a bad thing and should be fixed.



Try Exxon or the equivalent at 89 octane or even 93, but not until after the dealership has had a look at it. Keep the 87 in for their test drive. You want to reproduce the problem for them or else they will hand you back the keys and send you packing.



Driving another Unlimited with the same engine and tranny is a good idea and could shed some light on the situation.



I'm betting on something with one of the sensors (such as the MAS) or even a faulty injector. If the engine is running lean for some reason whether it be due to a faulty mass air sensor or funky injector that could cause a problem and should be addressed.



Good luck. At least it looks good, with all that Zaino. :D
 
I'm betting on something with one of the sensors (such as the MAS) or even a faulty injector.
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I'll throw that past the mechanics if they cfan't find anything, thanks:xyxthumbs

Hopefully I'll have some good news to report tomorrow afternoon.
 
Ok, more news to report.



I took the Jeep to a dealership in Fairfax VA. I explained to the mechanic that the noise only occurs when the engine warms up, is in the last gear (4th), and begins to start when the engine hits 1500 RPM in 4th gear. It's the loudest at that point, and gradually fades as the speed increases (maybe it's really fading, or maybe it's windnoise, hard to say). I told him to check to see if it's throwing codes, check the sensors, drivetrain, and tranny. I also told him I wanted to take him for a drive to show him.



Well, he ended up taking it out by himself, so I really can't be sure he heard it. He told me he had. He said it threw no codes, and that he then took it for a drive and heard the pinging. He said he did not check anything else, as it'd be difficult to narrow it down without it telling them something via the codes. Now, keep in mind, I know FOR A FACT that the guys who told me it didn't sound like pinging, but rather drivetrain groan heard the sound because I was with them and heard it too as clear as day. I only have this guy's word that he heard it.



What happened to the good-old days when mechanics ACTUALLY looked over the car to see what was wrong, instead of reling on computers to tell them...have they gotten dumber, or lazier. :nixweiss Probably both.



Anyways, I'm rambling, where was I? Oh yeah, he heard the pinging and got no codes. He said he really thought it was fuel-related pinging. He said it may be running too rich/lean (I forget). Also, he said that he has gotten 5-10 calls within the past week about other Wrangler Unlimiteds pinging as well.



He said he'd call up Chrysler and report the problem. He told me that he suspects that Chrysler will make a software-update to fix the problem. In the meantime, he said to drive it and ONLY put 87 in. He said to stay away from anything else, it's not recommended for the engine due to more anti-knock/chemicals added to the gas, and that it'd be harder for the motor to burn. He says 87 will burn cleaner, and should be what is always used. He suspects that, if a computer upgrade doesn't exist yet, that it will be created by Jeep within a month or so. He belives that this will fix the problem. He said he'd call me in a week or less and let me know.



So, how does this all smell to you guys?
 
ahunt01 said:


What happened to the good-old days when mechanics ACTUALLY looked over the car to see what was wrong, instead of reling on computers to tell them...have they gotten dumber, or lazier. :nixweiss Probably both.
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mabey that changed when the engines became electronically controlled rather than mechanically controlled



:rolleyes:
 
This is the second stealership that just checks the engine for codes, and won't lift a finger to look at anything else. I dunno, I hope I can find one that will actually roll up their sleaves and try and look a little harder. From what I thought, just because a computer doesn't say something is wrong doesn't mean it's so.
 
ahunt01 said:
This is the second stealership that just checks the engine for codes, and won't lift a finger to look at anything else. I dunno, I hope I can find one that will actually roll up their sleaves and try and look a little harder. From what I thought, just because a computer doesn't say something is wrong doesn't mean it's so.
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I agree that it's a shame that they can't seem to troubleshoot and diagnose a problem without a computer code. Sometimes you get a code, sometimes you don't. Last October, my truck was idling rough and the "Check Engine" light came on. It was the PCV and it was fixed. Easy to diagnose because it threw a code. Six months later the truck was idling rough without any light. No codes. We decided to go with a sparkplug change and now it's running fine. Just because the computer isn't telling you what's wrong doesn't mean there isn't something wrong! :(



Problem is, these days so much of the engine is indeed controlled by the little black box. You can't troubleshoot or adjust anymore unless it's very obvious (sparkplugs, filter, dirty injectors) or the OBD system lets you know.



Dealerships, especially for warranty work, aren't going to take the time to troubleshoot. I had the same problem when my car was under warranty. If it wasn't obviously broken they'd send me packing. I found it all very frustrating because many problems are intermittant or not obvious. I found that I was usually telling the dealer what was wrong and how to fix it!



Thing is, they have indeed agreed that you have a pinging problem but seem unsure on how to fix it! Saying "Yep, it pings" isn't fixing it. I'd be demanding immediate action. You have a brand new car and it shouldn't ping. Period.



I don't buy the bit about not using higher octane gas. If you put higher octane gas in and the pinging goes away then you've fixed the problem, even if it's only "bandaided". What's better, an engine that burns cleaner or blows up from a blown head gasket or worse?



If something is up with the computer (ie; the timing is off or the MAS is faulty) then you really have no choice but to bandaid. That means higher octane fuel and/or turning the OD off when driving at less-than-highway speeds and having the engine rev higher, thus eliminating load and the pinging.



Have you checked the Jeep forums? If this is a common problem then Chrysler may indeed have a TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) out that you don't know about. If this is a recent problem it could take awhile before it's addressed. Other Jeep owners may have some insight, especially since the dealer said they've gotten other complaints about pinging.



If this were me I'd go to another dealer and get yet another perspective and start calling the customer service reps at Jeep and raising some hell.



BTW, pinging is usually a result of not enough fuel (lean).
 
Well I've gotten no where with "5-star" dealerships, so I'm going to try a local Ford/Jeep dealership that we get our truck serviced at. They have no stars, but it's not like stars=quality. Atleast that's not my observation. Maybe the stars mean a cooler waiting room, that seems to be what I notice. Anyways. Cool, thanks for the clarifaction about the pinging=leaness.

Yup, I've checked tons, and I mean tons, of Jeep forums, all of which have similar problems and sadly, most are either not fixed and mask it by using a higher octane, or just live with the pinging.



Well the mechanic said there was no service bulletins at this time, but he said he was going to call up DC and check. I think I'll be calling the customer service reps like you said. If after trying a ton of different dealerships, all of which saying something different is wrong with no way to fix it, then I'll either pursue the lemon law, sell it privately, or just run it was higher octane and hope nothing bad happens for many many years. Honetsly and personally, I know no one who uses 87 octane, even if their vehicle manual calls for it. I've used 89 in my Civic, and 89 in our old f-150 truck, and they've been running flawlessly for years. I have no doubt that the Jeep would do the same, if 89/91 would make a difference in the sound...
 
It's not just a sound. Bad things are happening when you hear pinging or "pre-detonation". Think of lighting off a firecracker in a container and slamming a lid down on it as it explodes. The firecracker is your fuel/air mix being ignited and the lid is the engine's piston. It's not good if that firecracker goes off too soon and hits the lid with violent force. Basically that's what pinging is. The sound is just the symptom, not the problem.



I use 87 octane in 3 out of my 4 cars. No problems whatsoever. The only car that runs 93 is the one that calls for it because it's a higher compression ratio engine (10:1). Minimum of 91 is required by the factory and it WILL ping if anything less is put in. Only times I've had problems is when I'm travelling and have had to use inferior quality for one reason or another.



Rule of thumb is to use the least octane gas your car will run on. You get the best performance/gas mileage that way. Putting a higher-than-needed octane gas in your car is a waste of money and you're just making the engine less efficient. Putting too low an octane gas in a car that pings is asking for trouble.



Back in the good ol' days when you tuned an engine for maximum performance you'd set the timing right at the point before it starts pinging, but doesn't ping. That's where your engine is most efficient and runs best.



In a perfect world you should be able to put 87 in your new Jeep. If putting in higher octane gas does indeed eliminate the problem then do so and enjoy your new Jeep. Personally I'd rather pay a few extra bucks per tankful and drive "ping-less" then bang my head against the wall. You seem willing to spend the money for the higher octane gas so why not do so? My advice is to give it a try and see if the pinging does indeed go away. Try 89 first, then 93 and see what happens.



In the meantime, give your trusted local dealer a try but if nothing obvious can be done to fix it then use the higher octane and hopefully that will do the trick. Putting a higher octane gas into the tank to elminate pinging is a time-honored fix that's often done. Don't worry about it. There's a reason they make octane boost. ;) Hopefully this will indeed eliminate the problem.



There are many cars out there, which *should* run on higher octane but don't. Usually it's related to carbon build up on the valves, which artificially raises the compression ratio and causes pinging. That isn't your problem but if it's computer-related then it may as well be and your fix would be higher octane fuel. Keep an ear out for any pinging and turn off the OD if you are doing around-town driving and put the octane grade that works best for your car. Sounds like a plan to me. :)



Now go Zaino your Jeep! :D
 
Well, an update... I finally had some free time, and went to a dealership and pretended to want to buy a new 2005 Wrangler w/an auto tranny. I took it out for like 30 minutes (probably to their displeasure) and went up some big hills...hills that normally make my Wrangler ping, groan, and vibrate. Turns out that this new Wrangler does the same thing!!!*%$@



However, it's not quite as pronounced, but I'm betting that when it has a chance to break in like mine did then it will become more noticable. Also, I bet the Unlimited does it more than the short-bed due to the increase of strain on the motor because of the extra weight.



I guess it must be one of those "Jeep things" that everyone talks about lol. :chuckle:
 
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