5 Hours spent detailing and still doesn't look...

S

Scroder

New member
Very good. Spent 5 1/2 hours on my fiances 2002 Black Honda Civic. The car had some bad water spots, marring, swirl marks, and some light scratches. I started with a sonus clay treatment, then went over the bad areas with meguiars #83 with a 9000 pad, then went over the whole car with #80 and a 9006 finishing pad, then the klasse twins. The paint from a distance looks awesome, but up close you can still see swirl marks and marring. I used my pc 7424 for applying everything and did the meguiars on speed 5 and the rest on 3. I wiped everything off with meguiars gold microtowels. What did I do wrong. I figured this treatment would have made it look awesome but it didnt. Give me some ideas for next time, Thanks



Dave
 
i've had great success with #83 and speed 5/6 on the PC. it will come down to:



1. pad type. (i'm not familiar with the 9000 pad you mentioned)...i use an orange LC

2. pressure. you don't want a LOT...but some is necessary depending on the hardness of the clear coat

3. # of passes. it can take 2 or 3 rounds w/ #83 to remove bad stuff...see #2 regarding clear coat

4. working time of the polish. did you let it break down completely? was it easy to wipe off or was it kind of oily and smudgy? when it's broken down it will remove easily.



also, it could be that #83 just isn't the right product for the job and you need something else with your pad combo.



.02
 
Also, it's a good idea to check your work before you put your lsp on. The lsp isn't going to make any of the marring go away. I'm with paradigm, I don't know anything about the pad you used. #83 can have some cut, but if you don't use it with the appropriate pad, it won't cut much.
 
My bad--its the W9006 meguiars finishing pad (it was recommended to me by a few on this forum) I was using not the 9000



Dave
 
Scroder said:
My bad--its the W9006 meguiars finishing pad (it was recommended to me by a few on this forum) I was using not the 9000



Dave
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if you're going to stick with megs pads, you'll need the yellow polishing pad (w8006) to remove defects...
 
Scroder said:
I used my pc 7424 for applying everything and did the meguiars on speed 5 and the rest on 3.
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Just to make sure... when working with the DACP (#83), did you "apply" it, or did you work it into the paint for a while, so the polish really had a chance to be effective, and then break down.



I'm not sure of your experience level, and don't mean to assume, but one common mistake of people starting out is to apply polishes like a wax (wipe on, wipe off). Polishes take a little while to break down and really do their job; it's not a one pass type of application with the buffer.



Just a thought, based on the wording in your original question. Not sure if this helps at all.
 
In my experience Meguiar's pads are junk. I have used both Meg's and LC. LC lasts longer and performs better. My most recent purchases included an entire set of LC pads to replace my Meg's pads, which will be passed on to a DIY'er or my father, who doesn't detail as much as I do. Meg's pads fall apart too quickly, IMHO, so does their backing plate.



BTW- get a 6" counterweight for your PC- it makes ahuge difference for about $4
 
Scroder- I'd definitely use a more aggressive pad for the correction and *I* always use 4" pads when doing correction by PC.



IMO there are better choices than the #83, products that cut more aggressively while still finishing out OK and that are more user-friendly. The old PI-III RC 05933 is what I use (instead of #83) and the Hi-Temp line is probably a good starting point if you want to find something more commonly available. Use the more aggressive product/pad until the marring is basically the way you want it and *then* switch to mild stuff like the #80. Save the finishing pads for after the marring is pretty much gone. I don't really like #80 by finishing pad anyhow, I'd rather use a pad with larger pores.



Oh, and it can take a *LONG* time to do correction by PC. Five hours isn't all that long for this kind of thing. Depending on the marring and how hard the paint is you can spend five hours on a single panel (which is why many of us consider the PC marginal for serious correction).
 
My experience is opposite that of Beachy's; I have had poor luck with all my LC pads; the reccommended backing plate ate right through the damned pads!

I'm really happy with the Meg's 7006(?) Purple cutting pad for taking out medium swirls etc. The Meg's cutting pad and #83 with a couple passes get rid of a lot of imperfections.

Don't give up- just try something more aggressive!
 
Someone suggested to me to try Optimum polishes and the excel propel pads (with a range of medium to aggressive) from Patrick at http://www.exceldetail.com/ with a 6" backing plate. Since I have gone to this arrangement I have been much happier with my PC for getting swirls out



Before that, I had gone your route, I had used the Meguiar's yellow pad with both the speed glaze and the DACP. Both are good products, and even the yellow pad is good, but I found all polishes work better with an aggressive pad like the Excel Propel 2 Pad, which also does not marr on most finishes with the Optimum Polish.



Sometimes even this combination is not aggressive enough, and I mix OP with Optimum Hyper Compound to give it some extra boost. However, I have found from my experience a PC with numerous pad configurations and compounds WILL NOT ALWAYS REMOVE ALL PAINT DEFECTS and SWIRLS, and sometimes it may be necessary to resort to a Rotary, but for most customers they will be happy with a finish from 5 feet away. If you going to get rid of all swirls and defects, you are going to have to remove some paint, and a rotary is probably the best way to go to get the perfect finish. I have been told some types of Ford paint is very very difficult to improve with a PC from Mike Phillips at Meguiars and that a Rotary is needed to removes swirls.



But I'm not saying to go out and buy a rotary!



In most cases, if you have a good selection of pad choices from medium to aggressive, and have a good polish like Optimum which is real user friendly, and you already have DACP (which can be a PITA, but is effective) you should be able with a little practice and reading about techniques, be able to achieve the finish you want to achieve.



(If you are on a tight budget and can only afford to buy a few products, I would suggest the orange Propel 2 Pad from excel and the Optimum Polish, and you should see much improvement in your swirls. If on a bigger budget, buy a range of pads, and even the 4" propel pads are a great deal.).



Goodluck in your detailing, there is no black magic in detailing, just good technique with good products with a lot of hard work. If you want to learn the proper techniques the quick way, buy the video from show car garage.com from Mike Phillips, it comes highly recommended from beginners to experts.



PS Unless you are an experienced user, I would be very careful using the burgundy Meguiar's pads on a PC. These pads are designed to be USED ONLY WITH A ROTARY, and for most users, according to Meguiars, will marr the paint. If you only have small swirls, but the car looks good from a slight distance away, I'm not sure you would want to induce marring into the paint to try to get ride of the swirls with a PC with this particular cutting pad.
 
Given that you already own the #83 and #80 I would suggest just going with a more aggressive pad. The 8006 and #83 would be the next logical step. Just remember that the best pad/polish combo won't do anything for you if you don't work it long enough or with enough pressure. A good rule of thumb is to do 3 passes in two different directions per section you work on. So go horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal again with slow arm speed. Wipe off the polish and use a light or move the car into the sun to see how you did. Taping off a line or square before you polish and then removing the tape will help you see the before and after more clearly. If it looks good after #83 then go with #80 on a 8006 and finish with your LSP of choice on a 9006 pad.
 
Jason M said:
Given that you already own the #83 and #80 I would suggest just going with a more aggressive pad. The 8006 and #83 would be the next logical step. Just remember that the best pad/polish combo won't do anything for you if you don't work it long enough or with enough pressure. A good rule of thumb is to do 3 passes in two different directions per section you work on. So go horizontal, then vertical, then horizontal again with slow arm speed. Wipe off the polish and use a light or move the car into the sun to see how you did. Taping off a line or square before you polish and then removing the tape will help you see the before and after more clearly. If it looks good after #83 then go with #80 on a 8006 and finish with your LSP of choice on a 9006 pad.
Click to expand...



That sounds pretty good. Someone else told me that the 8006 pads cut to much and I could lose my clearcoat, but I see guys on here using the 7006 pads so it cant be that bad. Do you think going with the #80 on the 9006 would be better folloing the #83 on the 8006? Also (kinda new to this) what is LSP? THanks,



Dave
 
I would take 1/4 or 1/2 panel where the marring is and concentrate on that using your current products. Sometimes 2-3 passes are needed.



LSP means last step product. Which means your final wax or sealant. Some show cars last step product may be a glaze.
 
Scroder said:
That sounds pretty good. Someone else told me that the 8006 pads cut to much and I could lose my clearcoat, but I see guys on here using the 7006 pads so it cant be that bad. Do you think going with the #80 on the 9006 would be better folloing the #83 on the 8006?
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Most (but OK, not *all* ) of the time an 8006 won't have any functional cut of its own, the product is what does all the abrading. If your paint is really soft then maybe the 8006 will have cut (and *maybe* more of it than you might want) but that's a pretty big "if" IMO. Sure shouldn't take off "too much clear" even with a rotary. People sure do say some weird stuff....I commend you for asking about it rather than just taking that person's word for it.



I myself just don't like #80 on a 9006 (or any other finishing pad) because the fine-porosity pad loads up too fast with the broken down product and all those "trade secret oils". So I prefer a more porous pad with that product, something like the 8006. That's just me though, see what *you* like.
 
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