3D's new D/A?

Accumulator said:
Wonder how the "forced rotation polishers like the Flex 3401 don't finish as well as (regular) RO ones..." thing will factor in :think:
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You are saying a flex can never finish as well as a non-forced rotation under all conditions (pad, polish, paint)? I know why some like Mark do not like the handling but have never heard anyone categorically stating it cannot finish as well.
 
You best be kidding me...

I now have a PC, griots, and a makita in my garage.



Looks like i'll probably end up adding a 3D to that list :P
 
I can't stand the Flex 3401. Just sayin'.....
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From what I've been reading, those who like it love it and those who don't, hate it. I guess that's another factor in weather I want to drop that kind of coin on something that may not work well for me.



your twenty minutes away stop over and try one any time before you buy one
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Thank you Barry, I just may have to take you up on that. What are your hours?
 
LOL - yeah, the Flex 3401 is a love/hate relationship. I love mine as my hands aren't numb afterwards and honestly i haven't noticed any difference on finishes between it and my PC. I think finish has to do more with the product/combination/technique than anything else. I will say though that my arms are tired after a session with the 3401....it may not numb your hands, but it does take some arm strength and focus not to let it "walk" on you.
 
Since the 3401 is a forced rotation polisher, why not just use a rotary? Doesn't it essentially do the same thing? What benefit does the 3401 have over a rotary?
 
Well, for one, you don't have to chase after holograms. If you are a new rotary user, you may want to pull your hair out once you see your work in the sun. :D:D:D



RZJZA80 said:
Since the 3401 is a forced rotation polisher, why not just use a rotary? Doesn't it essentially do the same thing? What benefit does the 3401 have over a rotary?
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So 3401 doesn't instill holograms? I don't understand the science behind this as forced rotation to me is another way of saying rotary, or am I getting it wrong? I use a Makita 9227 and GG6, but if a Flex does was a rotary does and is that much easier, I'll pick one up.



Edit: I only cut with my Makita, I still always finish with the DA, so if I hologram with the Makita, it's ok with me.
 
RZJZA80 said:
So 3401 doesn't instill holograms? I don't understand the science behind this as forced rotation to me is another way of saying rotary, or am I getting it wrong?
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There are still two actions going (elliptical + rotation) on rather than one (rotation) so it's different from the rotary (which only has the rotation).



The forced rotation doesn't make it a rotary, just keeps it from losing the rotation the way a PC/etc. can under pressure (and makes it do that part more aggressively when it's not under pressure too).





I use a Makita 9227 and GG6, but if a Flex does was a rotary does and is that much easier, I'll pick one up.
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I hardly ever use the Flex 3401 since getting the GG 6", but then I don't do a lot of aggressive correction any more either. The Flex will do aggressive work considerably faster than the GG, but not as fast as a rotary (with very aggressive, rotary-only combos).



Edit: I only cut with my Makita, I still always finish with the DA, so if I hologram with the Makita, it's ok with me.
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That's the way I did it before I got the Flex 3401. Now my Makita and Metabos basically just sit on the shelf, even when I do have a job that requires really aggressive correction.



Besides the lack of holograms, the Flex 3401 is *much* more forgiving with regard to having and "oops!", not that I ever thought the rotary was all that tricky in that regard. If the rotary is basically Accumulator-proof, the Flex is pretty close to idiot-proof (depending on the idiot in question, of course).



Now whether you should spend *your* money on the Flex...well, I dunno :nixweiss I simply don't like my rotaries, so it was worth it to me. But if you're happy with your Makita then I wouldn't try to talk you into the Flex 3401.



MCA said:
...honestly i haven't noticed any difference on finishes between it and my PC. I think finish has to do more with the product/combination/technique than anything else.
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After going around and around with John Kleven, not to say we really :argue or anything, I started really paying attention to this. I gotta say that I simply can't get *quite* the same finish with the Flex 3401 that I can with either the Griot's 6" or the Cyclos. No matter what pad/product combo I use. The diff is pretty subtle with products like Menzerna and 1Z High Gloss, but I do still see it, which was *NOT* what I'd expected when John and I first discussed the topic.



I haven't finished via PC for so long that I can't say how that machine would compare. After getting used to the Griot's I simply can't stand to use the PCs any more, not even for spot-corrections with little pads (got a Griot's pneumatic for that).
 
RZJZA80 said:
Since the 3401 is a forced rotation polisher, why not just use a rotary? Doesn't it essentially do the same thing? What benefit does the 3401 have over a rotary?
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Another benifit is the pad does not heat up like a rotary.
 
That's what I was looking for with the Flex, I feel pretty confident in handling a DA and getting a detail to look good using it but I feel I have acquired some bad habits that would get me into some trouble if I stepped up to a rotary. I know the Flex will burn you if you get stupid with it as I have at times with the DA, but the chances of doing so is less vs. a rotary. I feel as though with a Flex or any other DA with forced rotation, it'll force me to pay attention to how I'm handling the machine and it'll get me into a good set of habits for when I eventually do go out and grab a rotary. When I detail, I'm usually on a pretty tight time constraint so whatever I can do to be able to do more in a certain amount of time, the happier I'll be knowing I didn't hack the snot out of a car while trying to rush. Since I think my G110 is gonna be on it's way out soon, I feel now is the time to up the ante!
 
Is this new da going to be a dual mode one like the makita where you can put into da mode or forced rotation mode. Does it use planetary gears to drive it while in forced rotation mode like the makita or does it use a set similar to the Flex 3401.
 
With all this talk about the Flex, don't forget the better Makita BO6040. It cuts better than the 3401 but has DA-mode that works like a standard DA machine if you think a DA finishes better.



It seems to me the 3401 has received all the attention at the the expense of the BO6040. A bit like the Jeep Cherokee getting all the attention at the expense of the Range Rover.
 
Alfisti said:
With all this talk about the Flex, don't forget the better Makita BO6040. It cuts better than the 3401 but has DA-mode that works like a standard DA machine if you think a DA finishes better.



It seems to me the 3401 has received all the attention at the the expense of the BO6040. A bit like the Jeep Cherokee getting all the attention at the expense of the Range Rover.
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Flex benefits mostly from the marketing hype it receives from certain vendors. In practice, the machine does deliver but it's far from the best tool for the job. I haven't touched my 3401 in at least 2 years now.
 
Alfisti said:
With all this talk about the Flex, don't forget the better Makita BO6040. It cuts better than the 3401 but has DA-mode that works like a standard DA machine if you think a DA finishes better.



It seems to me the 3401 has received all the attention at the the expense of the BO6040. A bit like the Jeep Cherokee getting all the attention at the expense of the Range Rover.
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What is the smallest pad size that the BO6040 will accept? Can the backing plate be exchanged?
 
Erik Mejia said:
What is the smallest pad size that the BO6040 will accept? Can the backing plate be exchanged?
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It has a 6" backing plate so the smallest pad is 6". I haven't tried to change the P

BP so I can't say for sure...never had the need to. However, the BP does come off with an Allen key which is provided.
 
C. Charles Hahn said:
Flex benefits mostly from the marketing hype it receives from certain vendors. In practice, the machine does deliver but it's far from the best tool for the job. I haven't touched my 3401 in at least 2 years now.
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What? You mean there are vendors out there who over-hype products they sell just to receive kickbacks? Say it isn't so Charlie. I can't think of one vendor who hypes up Flex products... :whistle:
 
One key aspect (attraction) about the Flex DA is that it is so well built compared to other polishers despite its limitations. There clearly is a market need for a DA with the same engineering/build quality level as the Flex that sells under $200. It would need to be more than just an upgraded model from China however engineering costs a lot of money.



If there were other viable competitors, I wonder why sellers like DD, DI, etc. do not carry them since they would like to have something not sold by everyone else.
 
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