2008 Saturn - which polish?

cwr64 said:
I have the container in my hand and I can say that it says nothing about applying in direct sunlight. I DOES say to avoid hot surfaces and for sure I applied the product on a very hot car roof. Shame on me...
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They probablydidn`t expect anybody to use it in direct sunlight. And no, you shouldn`t use such products on a hot surface...I realize that makes it tricky for you.

I felt the roof late yesterday afternoon and I can now say that I am not certain the defects are pits. I can feel the almost-microscopic defects with my fingernails and it is possible the defects are tiny bumps rather than pits - but it is surprising that extra machining and rubbing with microfiber towel did not kill the defects at all.
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Remember that you`re basically just sanding the surface when you use a Polish. Those defects are almost certainly all the way through the paint..down into the primer...and you`re not gonna fix them by abrading the surface; you`d run out of paint first.

Even "regular marring" like swirls/etc. are often *MUCH* harder to remove than most people would ever expect, so it`s not just you. This is probably a *good* thing as you could do some real damage, like..precipitate the need for prompt repainting...if what you`re doing were more aggressive.

Instructions say " Use a damp microfiber cloth to remove high spots (not sure what they mean by "high spots") and activate shine polymers". I did try using a damp microfiber cloth as directed and it seemed to do exactly nothing.
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If there were no high spots then that "did nothing" sounds normal, but maybe somebody who really knows this product will chime in.

..I will use higher magnification eyeglasses today to try to determine whether defects are pits or bumps.
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Good idea, but whichever they are you should almost certainly quit abrading it as taking off more clear can greatly hasten complete failure.

Next time, do the magnified inspection *first*, IMO it`s always a good starting point before you do anything (except clean the surface so you can better evaluate it).

Question unrelated: Using the polisher with Griot`s pink foam pads and Maguires conditioning spray. After about 15 minutes I noticed that the pad got pretty well "loaded" with the product, so I switched to a 2nd pink pad to continue work. Is that pad loading something I should avoid and change to a fresh pad more often or does it not really matter? Can the 1st pad be cleaned and put back into rotation while still damp from water?
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I don`t know if this product will work OK with a damp pad, some do/some don`t. But a damp pad almost always changes how an abrasive product behaves, and that might complicate things for you.

I don`t know, for instance, whether you should use the Meguiar`s Conditioning Spray. I myself DO NOT use such stuff with the products I have; I apply them to a fresh dry pad without doing anything to condition that pad, but that`s just me and the stuff I use.

I would *NEVER* do even one panel without thoroughly cleaning the pad or getting out a new one. I *LITERALLY* spend more time doing that and inspecting my work than I do running the polisher. I can`t even remember the last time I did *half* of a small panel without attending to the pad. As soon as it gets loaded up (even a little) with used product and cut-off clearcoat its behavior changes for the worse.

I basically want my pads to seem "fresh and clean, just like new" every time I put the polisher on my paint. Like...do a few passes, stop to buff off the residue and inspect, then attend to the pad even though it only did a brief amount of work. I`d sure never add more abrasive/paint-cleaning product without cleaning/replacing a pad although it can be OK to do when just LSPing.

This "always use a nice clean pad" is *NOT* one of those "just me" things..it`s very important whenever using an abrasive or anything else that can build up a used-product residue on the pad. You want the pores of the pad to be "open" and for the pad to have only the appropriate amount of product on it... and only product, no cut-off clearcoat.

Sorry if all this makes it sound like a huge PIA, but I`m trying to head off future headaches and confusion. I suspect you`re starting to see how/why this stuff can be challenging, but other than requiring time, the right mindset, and good inspection lighting/techniques, it`s really not all *that* tricky. It`s basically just the auto equivalent of sanding a piece of wood smooth (the polishing) before you varnish it (the LSPing). As with sanding wood, you can only take paint *off* and you don`t want to do too much of that lest you end up taking off too much.
 
@Accumulator

" I myself DO NOT use such stuff with the products I have; I apply them to a fresh dry pad without doing anything to condition that pad,"

Approximately how many fresh polishing pads would you use to do an entire car like mine? Sounds like I need to buy more pads.
 
cwr64 said:
@Accumulator

" I myself DO NOT use such stuff with the products I have; I apply them to a fresh dry pad without doing anything to condition that pad,"

Approximately how many fresh polishing pads would you use to do an entire car like mine? Sounds like I need to buy more pads.
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Considering this is a one-step job (not a 1) Compound, 2) Refine, 3) Finish Polish type job) on a car that needs a lot of work, if doing it with one type of pad I`d probably want about 8 of them. And I myself would spread the work out over a rather extended period of time.

I realize that sounds extreme, and expensive! But foam pads load up and are a PIA to clean on-the-fly. I`ll scrub a foam pad with a white cotton towel a couple times before retiring/properly cleaning it, but they load up to where that`s not enough pretty fast. (MF pads are much better and can be cleaned quite well with an air compressor).

There`s simply no way I could overstate how important I believe this is. To me, the only limiting factor with regard to "how many pads?" is, basically...$.

But leave those compromised areas alone now that you`ve done a bit of work on them. You`ve already discovered (what IMO indicates) that you`ll only make things worse by abrading them more, so now it`s just a matter of learning to live with the damage and keeping it protected so it doesn`t get worse quickly.
 
OK. I THINK I have attached car.jpg to this. If you view the photo (roof of my car) zoom in or expand the photo where you can very well see the white reflection of the garage eves of the garage next door to my driveway. You will see in the reflection how crappy the roof (the marks all over it) looks after my sorry efforts to make things look good. Sure wish I had applied the product on cool instead of hot metal. Today I polished some of the side of the car, and the areas I worked look fantastic. Better than new except for some nasty scratches. Maybe someday I will work on the scratches - but I doubt it. Ran out of daylight and ambition at the same time. Maybe will do more tomorrow. I did order that TW spray today - for use next time.
 

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cwr64- As best I can tell from the Pic, that`s exactly what I expected. Maybe not as bad as I thought it would be! That`s just what happens with basecoat/clearcoat paint is neglected and it can only be fixed with a repaint. I`d probably live with it...the damage on my beaters is at least that bad and nobody sees it..or cares...except for me (I`ll eventually have the Tahoe painted, but *NOT* the `93 Audi, I`ll live with it forever on that one. The roof of my wife`s `00 A8 got etched similarly from TN municipal water that ate right through the fresh coat of wax, but even she says "I`d rather have thick but etched clear, so don`t try to fix it").

Repeating for emphasis: The polishing is an abrasive process like sanding a piece of wood. You can`t fix this damage by doing more of that because the damage is all the way through the paint; you`ll Polish.."sand"...right through the rest of the paint before you fix the flaws, so don`t try. The clear is already failing and thinning it more will accelerate the process. The job now is to keep it protected as that will slow that failure-process down.

The sides look better because they`re not as exposed as the horizontal surfaces, which take the brunt of environmental contamination and UV exposure.
 
Thanks for all your advice and time. As I said, I`ve ordered the TW spray for use next time the car needs some shine. Hoping I don`t need to use the TW Ceramic polish in 2020. I am pleased you were able to see my photo of the Saturn roof. I do not know why the top of the trunk lid and the front hood of the car came out not-too-bad - they were almost as hot as the roof and both, of course, were in direct sunlight. I "emailed" TW telling them they need to update the directions on the bottle of TW Ceramic Polish & Wax to say that the product cannot be applied in direct sun - if that is a requirement for that product. The bottle DOES say to not apply to a hot surface (shame on me). OK - off now to polish another section of the car.
 
cwr64- Glad to help :D It`s funny how seemingly similar areas can age differently, but that`s just how it goes some times. I bet the "awful" areas are actually looking mighty good by Real World (as opposed to Autopian) standards. And they`re *protected* now! All good IMO.

And good on you for taking the time to reach out to TW. If *you* did it, you can just bet that somebody else did too, and explicit caveats in the instructions sound like a good idea to me.

Oh, and I`m glad you`re doing this kinda piecemeal; doing limited areas at a time make it less likely that fatigue/etc. will lead to mistakes.
 
This is the reply I got from Turtle Wax after almost three weeks:
[FONT=&quot][FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]From: Ashley Kirsch <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2019 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Turtle Wax - Questions about a product[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Hello Charles,[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Thank you for your email. We apologize for the delay. I would suggest giving the car a good wash and prep the surface (clay bar, mild compound, etc.) to give yourself the longest lifespan of the products. Depending on the condition of the paint, I would start with either the Ceramic Polish & Wax or the Ceramic Spray Coating. If you have some blemishes you want to fix, use the Polish & Wax. If the paint is in good condition or you want a quicker application for protection, use the Spray Coating. These will both last you the entire year. From there, I would say to maintain with either the Ceramic Car Wash or the Ceramic Wet Wax or the Ceramic Detailer.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

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cwr64- Given that you contacted them regarding your concerns related to use in direct sun, that`s an unfortunately typical useless, blow-off response. At least it wasn`t rendered in broken english.

For future reference, if that`s gonna be your ongoing working situation you should keep an eye peeled for products marketed specifically as "usable in direct sun". I have zero idea what those would be, but there are Autopians who work in the sun and the stuff they use must work OK. I`d try to figure out what those products are.
 
Just an FYI for what I bought for next time...
Turtle Wax 53409 Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating-16 Fl Oz: Sealants ... Can be used in direct sunlight and on all exterior surfaces including glass
 
One final email reply received from Turtle Wax:
Ashley Kirsch <[email protected]>
Hello Charles,
No, that is perfectly okay to use the Spray Coating in a couple of months when you want to add more protection! Since this is designed to last around 12 months on the car, this is why we suggest pairing the Spray Coating with the Detailer or Wet Wax or even our ICE Seal N Shine. A little bit of Spray Coating goes a long way, so you won’t need to apply every month like your typical spray waxes. I hope this helps. If you have any other questions or concerns, please contact me back directly.
Thank you & Happy Holidays,
Ashley Kirsch
Product Compliance Coordinator-Consumer Affairs
 
cwr64- Well, at least that reply was better than the previous one. Although the second sentence has me scratching my head... Anyhow, as long as you use something every now and then I bet it`s gonna hold up (and look) fine. I bet you`ll really notice the diff next time it gets really dirty and you find the wash nonetheless going quick and easy :D
 
I live in Kyle, TX, and unfortunately the water here is from wells that yield very hard, alkaline water which mandates home water softening systems. I have a Culligan system which makes water OK for inside the house, and my 2 outdoor hose bibs are connected to that system. Trouble is, the system does not change the water enough to keep white water spots from forming on the black car as it drys from my hand washing, and I have to hand-dry the car any time I wash it. The local DIY car wash places do have a setting for "spot free rinse", but using it drives up the cost and it is slow.
 
cwr64 said:
I live in Kyle, TX, and unfortunately the water here is from wells that yield very hard, alkaline water which mandates home water softening systems. I have a Culligan system which makes water OK for inside the house, and my 2 outdoor hose bibs are connected to that system. Trouble is, the system does not change the water enough to keep white water spots from forming on the black car as it drys from my hand washing, and I have to hand-dry the car any time I wash it.
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Hm, have you discussed that with Culligan? Perhaps the problem is the tank isn`t big enough, or isn`t regenerating often enough.
 
cwr64 said:
I live in Kyle, TX, and unfortunately the water here is from wells that yield very hard, alkaline water which mandates home water softening systems. I have a Culligan system which makes water OK for inside the house, and my 2 outdoor hose bibs are connected to that system. Trouble is, the system does not change the water enough to keep white water spots from forming on the black car as it drys from my hand washing, and I have to hand-dry the car any time I wash it. The local DIY car wash places do have a setting for "spot free rinse", but using it drives up the cost and it is slow.
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EDIT: the following *assumes* (uh-oh.. :o ) that the Culligan system works like my softeners...)

Softened water will still leave a residue, just not the *same* residue (because of the "ion exchange" nature of a softener), but rather stuff that`s generally a lot easier to deal with. How hard the water starts out will factor in; really hard water will leave more residue after softening since more exchange happens. (I hope the more knowledgeable will forgive my simplified explanation.)

BUT the "spot-free" rinse at the carwash is probably DEIONIZED, with all those "other ions" removed.

If I`m not gonna touch-dry, I use my CRS Deionizer (or distilled water through a sprayer). But the Home Touchless approach only works for me when the vehicle isn`t very dirty and I`m not aiming for an Autopian final result.
 
Accumulator said:
Softened water will still leave a residue, just not the *same* residue (because of the "ion exchange" nature of a softener), but rather stuff that`s generally a lot easier to deal with. How hard the water starts out will factor in; really hard water will leave more residue after softening since more exchange happens. (I hope the more knowledgeable will forgive my simplified explanation.)
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You caught me not thinking hard enough, I have the same experience you do, but as you point out, the harder the water coming in, the more sodium or potassium is exchanged into the processed water, perhaps resulting in a lot more residue than you and I get from our "normal" tap water, vs. the OP`s well water. So it may be that his softener is sized correctly and functioning perfectly, as opposed to my brain.
 
Setec Astronomy- Heh heh, I sure don`t catch you asleep at the wheel very often, and that wasn`t necessarily off-base anyhow.

Not that I really know from Culligan...like, whether it`s just a name-branded type of softener or something, uhm...special.
 
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