135 quick clean-up/OptiGuard application

B

Bobby G

New member
by David W. Bynon



Many people believe that “premium� gas is the best gas. Not true. Premium simply means “premium price� for higher octane. Octane is a simple measurement for a gasoline’s ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders.



Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump. The misnomer about octane is that the higher the rating, the better or more smoothly your car will run. In fact, premium gas can be bad for your engine if it was not designed to run at a high-octane level.



Although it may seem that the term “premium� or “high octane� implies that more energy is available, premium gas does not produce more energy than regular or mid-grade fuel. The octane grades are designed to accommodate engines with different compression ratios. High compression engines, found in most performance cars, require a fuel that burns efficiently at a higher temperature. That’s what premium fuel does, it burns hot under high compression. In a normal engine, premium fuel does not burn completely, resulting in excess carbon build-up and carbon fouling of the spark plugs. The end result is a less efficient engine that requires tune-ups more frequently. Oh, yeah, did I mention it also wastes money?



The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane fuel is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars. Check your owner’s manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.
 
Thanks for opening this David B.



Premium Gasoline has more additives than regular, it's better for your SPORTS car! Also switching gasolines is better for your SPORTS car. A friend of mine in France is a Car evaluator and knew my M3 and every bug in it. He told me to rotate between 3 different gas chains because each chain offers seperate cleaner additives.



I will have to dig up info to back up my claims. But sources aren't some kid down the street. The reason why I mention 'sports' car is that old Chevys tend to run better of regular. So DavidB is correct, but performance machines, especially foriegn cars were design to run on much higher octane, refined petroleum.



I dont want to flame, but would like to get the right info.



Feel free to rip my finds to bits!:xyxthumbs
 
I agree with that statement a lot. We always used to fill our 95 intrepid with 91 octane and occasionally 93, and 89 was recommended. Now it gets terrible gas mileage and runs very poorly after 68k miles. The dealer finds this to be very strange. I blame it on the use of high octane gas.
 
So are the things I've heard about gas milage and how you get more of it with Premium untrue? I personally notice a much better gas milage with a higher octane fuel. Of course, I'm fairly sure that my GSR was designed for use with premium fuel. It says so on the guage.



Do octane boosters do anything for your car really? What about those fuel additives that say they clean up the system? Any good?
 
Jngrbrdman said:
So are the things I've heard about gas milage and how you get more of it with Premium untrue? I personally notice a much better gas milage with a higher octane fuel. Of course, I'm fairly sure that my GSR was designed for use with premium fuel. It says so on the guage.



Do octane boosters do anything for your car really? What about those fuel additives that say they clean up the system? Any good?
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I also get slightly better mileage with 93+ in my Civic. I'm running nitrous so I have no choice but to run high octane to prevent detonation.



Octane boosters are mostly garbage. Nitrous express makes one however that gave me 3 hp at the wheels on the dyno, on the juice. But for naturally aspirated, they're a joke.



Chevron Techron is the way to go for fuel system cleaners. I add a bottle every time I do an oil change. Most ppl I know swear by it.
 
Jngrbrdman said:
So are the things I've heard about gas milage and how you get more of it with Premium untrue? I personally notice a much better gas milage with a higher octane fuel. Of course, I'm fairly sure that my GSR was designed for use with premium fuel. It says so on the guage.



Click to expand...



Could this just be becasue you aren't reving as hard to accelerate since you are now using the gas your car was designed for? Honda engines (read all acuras) are supposedly high compression engines so they require the higher octane gas to run properly and to get the HP advertised.
 
I agree 100% with what David said. I have heard the same info elsewhere, I believe ASE was one of those sources. I also never thought to rotate brands, but as far as premium having more additives I guess it must in order to raise the octane rating. Also, I use Techron every 3k as well, the Red Line stuff isn't too bad either. :wavey
 
FLAWLESS said:






Chevron Techron is the way to go for fuel system cleaners. I add a bottle every time I do an oil change. Most ppl I know swear by it.
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I agree that gas line cleaners are a great additive to use every 3000 miles or oil change. I use Seaform or Techron but add these products just prior to the next oil change. The reasoning: these product basically flush and dissolve deposits which the majority are burned during combustion but a little is also washed into the oil and filter. But be careful for those drivers that have not done these procedure routinely. You could dislodge some deposits that may actually block a fuel injector. This is highly unlikely because today's gasolines all have some form of detergent and excessive build-up is rare if the car is in proper condition ( timing, plugs, etc)
 
I use the higher octane gas for speed.



My first two tanks were the middle grade and it was all fine and dandy. My buddy suggested that I use the higher grade, when I got on the gas pedal I could feel a slight difference.



It also says in the book that I need it to run the car so I'll just keep the motor in one peice.



My buddy has a 1998 Dode Dakota 5.9 360 cubic inch motor and it suggests that he only use 87 octance. Talk about having it easy eh?
 
FYI - if your car doesn't have electronic mgmt, you need only an octane level that prevents pre-ignition. More octane will only coast you money. However, if it DOES have electronic management with knock sensors, then you may not be getting full power - and in this want to clarify what David said.



Some engines are designed to make their power with a minimum of 93 octane. This is true of my BMW, for example. I can only get 91 octane here in CA. I never hear the engine knock - this is because the computer hears it first (via the knock sensor) and retards the engine's timing from its power-optimal setting to one where it no longer pings. I have access to 100 octane fuel - ocassionally I buy a half-tank (which gives me about 95) . It takes a little while for the computer to advance the timing - but it does, and as long as it doesn't detect knock it will advance it all the way to the optimal setting for power. In the M5, this makes a a NOTICEABLE difference. Interstingly, in the Porsche Turbo, it does not.



Do NOT use the car parts store "octane boosters" - they are a sham, and (according to Steve Dinan, one of the most respected BMW tuners) they contain some harmful additives. Increase octane by buying it at the pump if you can, or with toluene (see The Rocket Fuel FAQ )



As far as higher octane fuels HURTING your engine, or causing it to delvier poorer fuel mileage - I am aware of no reason for this. It may be a waste of money, but I don't believe there is any harm in running it.
 
is this any good? if any one could give me some info on whether of not the rocket fuel would be benefitial for a MB 97 C 280 i would appreciate it. i like Chevron, but for some reason, all of the Chevrons near D.C. are now Citgo:nixweiss
 
Octane effects volatility which means it effects combustability.The usage of octane is to decrease volatility of the fuel in higher compression engines in order to prevent pre-detonation ( knock)If your car is not rated to run higher octane fuel you are not only wasting money but also polluting the environment. All the unspent fuel is sent through the exhaust and may over- load the ability of the cat converter to neutralize. :cool:

Furthermore, higher octane does not translate into increase power unless the usage of a lower octane fuel creates knock and causes the ECU to retard timing. If your car runs prefectly on 87 octane it will not improve your performance by using 93 octane. In some cases as stated previously may decrease performance. Sorry..:(
 
I don't understand how people can "feel" the diffrence between using 89 octance gas and 92/93. There is no way your butt dyno can tell the added gain from something that dosen't add anything. There are not more BTU's of energy in premium gas than there are in regular or mid grade. Its all exactly the same gas, but some has some additives in it to help it resist knocking. My Honda Integra GS-R has a compression ratio of 10.0:1 I could probably get by on mid grade or regular on cold days, or if I was in an area higher in elevation. Otherwise, you MUST use premium gas for anyhting over 10:1 compression. If you don't detonation will kill your engine. Nice article, by the way, dave.
 
Premium gas does not have more additives than regular. How do I know this, I'm majored in both Chemistry and Chemical Engineering at the University of Southern California. I interned at the Chevron refinery in El Segundo, CA for 2 years. The only difference between the different grades was how much of an octane boost chemical it got. (i forget the name) The amount of techron put in it was equal because all the refined gasoline started from the same tank. I talked to my boss who worked in the gasoline refinery business for over 20 years. He told me it costs them next to nothing to make premium gas over regular. Also did you know that gasoline companies routinely share gasoline. For example, if unocal 76 was running short on gasoline, they would borrow some from Chevron and vice versa all the time. Not ocassionally, but all the time. The additives didn't really make a difference because by California law or maybe even federal law there had to be additives like detergents and oxygenates in it and they were basically the same. They even had a joke in the office about how premium was such a scam for people and how all the gasoline does is boost profit margins.



The only time premium gas makes a difference is when your car needs it. If your car says to use premium gas, you must use it or your car will be retarded by the ECU and will lose horsepower. When your car requires regular and you use premium, you get nothing out of it but wasting your money and probably hurting performance ever so slightly because the timing in your car isn't calibrated for the less volitile (higher octane) gas. There are no extra detergents, your engine is just as clean or just as dirty from using premium or regular.



One recent car that calls for regular but does get a boost from premium gas is the 2003 honda accord V6. Now why does this car get a boost from premium. Honda designed it so it runs on regular with knock sensors and if premium is used, the timing is advance by the computer until the knock sensors sense Knocking. So you get about a 10HP boost. This is not the norm. Most cars do not have a computer that will advance the timing, only this car and the pre 2002 Honda Oddessey are the cars I'm aware of.



A car like the BMW that requires premium has the timing advance already like the Honda accord would do but it get retarded or set back when regular is used.



SO bottom line, save your money and use regular unless you drive a car that needs it or a 2003 accord v6 or the pre 2002 oddessey.



forgot to mention. If your car doesn't require premium and you use it and you feel you get better mileage or a boost in power, I have some ocean front property to sell you in Nevada. Please email me ASAP.

Alex
 
The salesman told my dad specifically NOT to use premium gas. I think it says somewhere in the manual why not to. I'll guess, I'll have to check when the Bravada comes back from the shop.
 
What an interesting thread! It sounds like we have some pretty savvy car people here.



For what it is worth here are some more thoughts:

According to the Wall Street Journal yesterday's spot prices were:

Premium non oxygenated gas $.9078/gal

Regular non oxygenated gas $.8678/gal

Difference $.0400/gal



It is easy to see if you need premium. If you use regular try a tank of premium and see if your car runs better. i.e. better acceleration/less knocking. If you use premium try a tank of regular and see if you get less acceleration or some knocking.



The only difference I know in regular and premium other than octane is with Mobil Premium. It has a detergent in it. I run a tank through now and then since it is easier than buying a bottle of gas line cleaner at Auto Zone.
 
hey,

Like I stated before, ALL yes ALL gasoline grades have the same amount of detergents, even Mobile regular Vs premium. It's just that they don't advertise it so that people are fooled into thinking that only premium has it. Call mobil, call chevron, ask them if their regular has the same detergents as premium, they will say yes. It's more expensive for them not to put the detergents in because the refining process would have to be altered just for that. Besides, it's state law, should be all states that detergents and oxygenates are used to lower pollution.



Alex
 
When you put an after market computer chip in (Super Chip or Jet Chip) they say to run Premium gasoline, is true or just a marketing thing??? :nixweiss Any thoughts?
 
Green Monster said:
When you put an after market computer chip in (Super Chip or Jet Chip) they say to run Premium gasoline, is true or just a marketing thing??? :nixweiss Any thoughts?
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Most (all as far as I know, but I'm sure there are some strange ones out there) either alter the transmission shifts or the settings the ECU accepts from the air flow sensor, O2 sensor, etc. I would probably go with premium gas if that's what they reccomend since the chip has altered what is mixed together in the engine.
 
I know my friends wife put 87 in his camaro one day by mistake, needless to say the car didnt run right for 2 or so tank fulls. I use the best in the SS I can get and 87 in the Cav/satty
 
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