$120 to detail a LIMO!

M

mcc

New member
My market drives me nuts. Nobody wants to pay anything. We just got a call from a limo company with 2 limos to detail. Of course, they didn't mention at first that they had limos, they just wanted pricing on our detailing services, and my wife quoted them the basic prices for a car/truck (90) and suv/van (120). They couldn't believe how high our prices were, and then let us know that they weren't interested in paying those prices.........for LIMOS!! Yes, they turned down a price of $120 per limo for a full interior and exterior detail. Now, we don't do paint restoration like many of you guys, but we're talking full wash/wax/exterior dressing/carpet/upholstery/leather/windows/jambs/etc., and they thought we were outrageous. Now, of course, I wouldn't have done it for $120 anyway, but they just asked for pricing, not limo pricing. But they balked at the regular pricing anyway.



They then asked how much just to "put a good coat of wax on the exterior for the winter", and told us they had to do it on a Friday, the day I typically have good paying customers that want their vehicles done. It is only July, and these peole think that a "good coat of wax" now will last them through the winter. People here are absolutely nuts.



We get a lot of people that want us just to come clean a leather seat for them, clean up a spill in their floorboard, just wash the outside of one vehicle, etc. We also get a lot of calls at 3:00PM on a Friday wanting us to come detail their vehicle for the weekend that same day. Yeah, sure, no problem. Does anyone else have problems with their market not understanding the value of a detail? I have some good customers, but sometimes the ridiculous calls start to get to me, especially on slow weeks where these are the only types of calls that I seem to get.



I'm starting to get into just basic car washing here because people have no perception of value whatsoever with regards to this business. I quoted someone $15 at a local business I deal with to wash the exterior of their car, dry it, and apply tire shine. Their response was "What, you don't include the interior too?". For $15, I think not.



Who else has this kind of market, and what do you do to make things work?
 
jeeze I hear ya on that, thank goodness there isn't people liek that out here, well there is, but not as much which is a good thing
 
I'm in the Louisville, KY market. It seems to have what I call the "flea market" mentality, where everything is cheap to begin with and negotiable on top of that. People here do not seem to value their vehicles much at all. Once I detailed a nice Volvo convertible for a lady who's husband bought it for her the year before for her birthday. He was now buying her detailing for it, because she had it for a full year and never even bothered to wash it. That is typical of the kind of work I get.



In the winter, my work drops significantly. We don't have harsh winters, but our road department freaks out anytime a flake of snow falls, and we typically have more salt on the road than snow. I've actually had my car slide in the salt going around corners in some rural areas on the roads, rather than sliding on any snow or ice. People here have the mentality that there is no use in washing a car in the winter, as it will just get salt on it anyway. So, they definitely won't have it detailed. Obviously, that is not the case with everyone, but I seem to attract those people. Most detailing centers here don't last long.



I have looked into dealer work, but from my discussions I never found the magic price point for the ones I've spoken to. All I know is that they pay less than $80 for a full detail including engine, interior, and exterior.



I get called quite a bit, or I'll have people approach me, with questions as to how to get this out or what to do in this case or that with their vehicles. I no longer give a response. If they want to find out, they can research it like I had to do to start my business. I don't go to the local AC shop to have them teach me how to repair my AC unit, I don't go to the local plumber and ask them how to fix my plumbing myself, so I get irritated when people come to me with the expectations that I'll tell them how to take care of their cars themselves.



So, my wife and I have several small businesses to make ends meet, because detailing just doesn't seem to have the money in it here in this area. If it does, I just haven't found it yet.
 
I think the key to markets that don't support higher priced detailing is to do the biggest bang for the buck you can in the shortest amount of time. If you can charge $120 for a detail that covers what most in your area probably want and knock it out in 2 hours that not too bad if you ask me.
 
PhaRO said:
I think the key to markets that don't support higher priced detailing is to do the biggest bang for the buck you can in the shortest amount of time. If you can charge $120 for a detail that covers what most in your area probably want and knock it out in 2 hours that not too bad if you ask me.
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agreed... try detailing college kids cars sheesh ;)
 
I find thats true with a lot of limo companies actually... so that might be your problem. The last one I quoted had a completely skewed idea of what a detail entailed.... when I quoted it they were shocked, but when I listed the processes that were included

(Wash, clay, multiple passes with machine applied polish, wax, sealer, tires, wheels, interior shampoo, vinyl and leather treatments, water spot removal, yadda yadda yadda)

They changed their tune... they really only wanted a quick wash, wax, and vaccum... so clearly defining the "details of the detail" might help in the future.
 
We went over the details with them to let them know what we would do for the price, they weren't up front as to the types of vehicles they had in the first place, and they were just looking for someone to come out and sling wax on them quickly and cheaply. People like that aren't worth fooling with. They will want more than you agreed upon once you get there, because they have no sense of value and think they can push you into offering just a little bit more here and there. At one point in time, I offered many different packages. After realizing that most people never even looked at the options, I just offer one package, that's it. Sure, I would work something out if the right customer came along, but people that want to negotiate won't be happy, as they always think that they can get just a little more for their money.



Most of the vehicles that come to me are completely trashed. Most take 3-5 hours depending on size at a price of $90-$120. I don't think my prices are high in the slightest, especially factoring the cost of operation.



I have actually had 2 customers lately come out while I was in the middle of detailing and tell me that they needed their vehicles. Never mind that I had told them how long it would take and made sure to have them check the schedule to make sure the vehicle would be available. Never mind their was wax all over it waiting to be buffed off. One customer just started unloading my supplies from her car while I was working on the other side working. Both customers expected me to wait around for them to get back. Sure, I have nothing better to do but wait for them to get back. Both were bargain shopping ladies that had no regard for me, my business, my profession, etc. One called me and came back quickly, the other never returned and said she would still pay for it, since I had everything done but the vacuuming and carpet cleaning. I still haven't seen a check in the mail.
 
One of the things I really hated during the first years I was cleaning was the quality of cars I got. It was one trashed vehicle after another. Just a never ending parade of garbage cans on my schedule. In addition to the trashed vehicle I got my fair share of pain in the butt customers. For the last 3-4 years I've been doing pretty much just the same people over and over and most of the cars are not very dirty. I'm planning on moving in a year or so and dread starting over.
 
Yep the economy here in Flint is the same mentality. I actually had a little old lady call me up and ask why my prices were so high considering I just open my shop (mind you I've been detailing since 1994) She started to argue with me that because the business was new I should be about half of what I charge. (my details start at $80 and go up to abuot $150 for cars) It blows my mind what people expect around here. I now see just why there are so many hack shops around here. People demand the more for the least why take time scrubbing carpet when a blast from the powerwasher can quickly get that stain out .(rolls eyes)
 
mcc said:
My market drives me nuts. Nobody wants to pay anything.



Does anyone else have problems with their market not understanding the value of a detail?



Who else has this kind of market, and what do you do to make things work?
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I think you are, like many detailers, confusing the general population with what you think is your market. Basically, it sounds like you have an upscale detailing business and you are attracting low end customers. The key is to go after those people who are willing and able to pay the prices you need to charge in order to make a reasonable profit and continue to stay in business.



Think of it this way. The owner of an expensive upscale gormet restaurant would want to do everthing possible to attract people who could afford to eat at their place. They know that the gereral population is really not their target clientele. They know that it is up to them to focus in on marketing to people who can pay those higher prices, not the cheap fast food people. Detailing it is really no different than the restaurant business. Hey, everyone has to eat, however some people, like the people you should be going after, are more than willing to pay those much higher prices so they can enjoy eating at those fancy restaurants.



It is clear that the limo company has a need to keep their vehicles looking clean. That is easy to figure out, because they would not be in business very long if they didn't keep their limos clean. So they definitely have a need to keep a clean limo, the only problem is, like so many other short sighted business owners, they somehow think they can get it done cheap and save money. Actually, when it comes to high end detailing, the majority of people motoring around in their cars are cheap. Hey, most won't even wash their cars, let alone have them detailed.



What all of this means is that it is up to you to go out there and find those high end clients willing and able to pay your prices. That is the key to successfully marketing your detailing business. It is not about attracting just any old customer. It is about focusing your marketing efforts and beginning to attract only those people who have a definite need for the upscale services you are offering. It is basically up to you to concentrate on serving your market and at the same time turning away those people not willing to pay your price.
 
mirrorfinishman said:
I think you are, like many detailers, confusing the general population with what you think is your market. Basically, it sounds like you have an upscale detailing business and you are attracting low end customers. The key is to go after those people who are willing and able to pay the prices you need to charge in order to make a reasonable profit and continue to stay in business.



Think of it this way. The owner of an expensive upscale gormet restaurant would want to do everthing possible to attract people who could afford to eat at their place. They know that the gereral population is really not their target clientele. They know that it is up to them to focus in on marketing to people who can pay those higher prices, not the cheap fast food people. Detailing it is really no different than the restaurant business. Hey, everyone has to eat, however some people, like the people you should be going after, are more than willing to pay those much higher prices so they can enjoy eating at those fancy restaurants.



It is clear that the limo company has a need to keep their vehicles looking clean. That is easy to figure out, because they would not be in business very long if they didn't keep their limos clean. So they definitely have a need to keep a clean limo, the only problem is, like so many other short sighted business owners, they somehow think they can get it done cheap and save money. Actually, when it comes to high end detailing, the majority of people motoring around in their cars are cheap. Hey, most won't even wash their cars, let alone have them detailed.



What all of this means is that it is up to you to go out there and find those high end clients willing and able to pay your prices. That is the key to successfully marketing your detailing business. It is not about attracting just any old customer. It is about focusing your marketing efforts and beginning to attract only those people who have a definite need for the upscale services you are offering. It is basically up to you to concentrate on serving your market and at the same time turning away those people not willing to pay your price.
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Okay, I have heard this before about marketing to the right customer. What I can't seem to find out is how to do so. There are obviously higher income areas of town, but many of those people are in debt up to their eyeballs and can't afford much of anything other than their fancy house and cars they don't seem to care about. And it also doesn't mean that they appreciate their vehicles any more than those struggling to makes ends meet on lower wage jobs. My wife cleans houses, and she works for a lot of people that have plenty of money to spend. They are willing to have their houses cleaned, but they scoff at any notion of paying someone to really take care of their vehicle.



I also don't see a comparison between a need, like eating, that people with more affluent backgrounds may choose to do at a gourmet restaurant, and a luxury service like detailing. Obviously, you and I see a need to protect the vehicle's paint, upholstery, and such, but most people don't. Those fancy restaurants tend to locate themselves in upscale ends of town, which without a fixed location, I can't do. They also rely on the fact that once word spreads that it is "the" hot new spot for fine dining, people will come. I've never seen people get that excited over detailing to any measure that would be truly comparable.



In my opinion, it is all about perceived value. And people in my area do not perceive much value in their vehicles to begin with, and certainly not in any service like ours with regard to said vehicles. When word spreads about that new gourmet restaurant hot spot, now there is a perceived value. But that is because people want to feel like they are going to the new cool place already. That doesn't have to be instilled in them by the advertising. We have to tell people what we have, why it is beneficial, and then make them want it too, because they just don't see a need for it in our market.



I also wonder how much of the throw-away society we live in affects how people view taking care of their cars. People now figure they will get a new car anyway in a few years, maybe they lease and switch often, or they bought a cheap car that they don't have much regard for. Then when I seem to find someone with really high end cars, they have a boatload of them and the sheer volume seems to diminish their value in the eyes of the owner. We actually detailed a Ferrari for a guy with a whole stable of beautiful cars, and he just let it sit and collect dirt for over a year and half after that. I don't know what happened to it after that, but he didn't place much value on his rides.



If I put an advertisement out, how do I have any control over who reads it and whether or not they would likely be a good customer? Are you suggesting targeted ads like mailings in a predetermined zip code, and if you are, that still doesn't mean that the people give any consideration to the care of their vehicles?



I guess what I'm saying is that I appreciate the suggestions, but I don't understand how to implement what you are suggesting. Can you elaborate for me?
 
I wouldn't know but have you considered an option for the cheap? It's probably bad business but a low-end dollar package for vacuum, wash, dry, and a cleaner wax might save a little grief?



I don't detail as a profession but I figure if my friends ask me to do their cars I can just wash/dry and use my machine to polish/apply Zymol Cleaner Wax.



Sorry, I wouldn't know how to achieve your market, short of doing like a door to door in an afluent neighborhood.
 
What are you doing now to attract customers? How are you marketing yourself? Yellow Page ads served me well initially getting established but the last several years it has been nothing but a steady stream of price shoppers or people who just want their carpets or seats cleaned. I ended up dropping my business line because of that.



Back in the early to mid 90s, I was putting out flyers in the nicer neighborhoods and out at DFW Airport and Love Field in Dallas...don't try putting out flyers at an airport now, with terrorism concerns they won't take too kindly to people hanging out in the parking garages. Concentrate on the high end neighborhoods and you'll probably need a nice brochure instead of a flyer. You can also do direct mailers to those areas as well but it can get pricey.



I'd also hit up the golf courses in the area. Talk to the management and see if they'd let you detail cars and maybe even market you to their members for a small percentage. A round of golf takes a good 3-4 hours and they aren't using their car so it is a good market to tap. Professional service buildings (doctors, lawyers, etc) are also a good place to go to and solicit business.



Look into offerning an exterior detail as a door prize at PTA meetings at a couple of the schools in nicer areas. Gets your name out and positions you as someone who cares about the community.



I was lucky enough to have a friend of a very rich guy see the sign on the back of my old Celica when I was first starting out. Detailing his Rolls and 560SEL out in his circular drive got me a lot of exposure from the right people. All you really need is a few quality customers to impress. You do good work for them and they will be more than happy to refer you to their friends. Plus, those people will already know your pricing and will be calling to set up appointments, instead of wasting your time asking how much to clean two seats in their '89 Cavalier.
 
In most service businesses, the operations who charge the most and do the highest quality work, rely almost exclusively on word of mouth. Unfortunately, this takes years to build. I have been detailing full time for nearly two years. Just recently has the word of mouth business started to pick-up. In addition, I have enough people in my customer database that I can market to them and remind them about the value of detailing. Remember, it is much more expensive to gain new customers than to retain the ones you already have. A simple post card twice a year will remind them you still exist. Most of my new customers come from my yellow page ads and internet ads. I am always thinking of ways to reach the people who see the value in detailing. As you have stated it is difficult to reach that crowd because they usually rely on word of mouth for recommendations. The other way to increase profits is to increase your efficiency. Instead of raising prices, refine your process and buy equipment that makes you more productive. I have decided to set prices that are attractive to most people in my area. To increase profits I have refined my process and purchased the best equipment to decrease my details times and costs.
 
brwill2005 said:
Remember, it is much more expensive to gain new customers than to retain the ones you already have.
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Absolutely! Plus, loyal customers will advertise for you. :bigups



Also, if you are on any other message boards, make sure your profile includes that you are a professional detailer and have your location filled in. Any discussions on detailing, jump right in. If you know what you are talking about, people will notice. They might not be in your area, but if they post on a board where people are in your area and the subject somes up, they will remember you and post your information. I post a lot on another board (44,000+ posts since 2000) and they all know what I do for a living because I moderate the detailing forum there. They post on a BMW board for example and someone asks if anyone knows someone in Dallas that does detailing and they put my information out there. As long as you don't blatantly spam your business and are just helping people out in threads about detailing, most boards don't mind. I do the same for my fellow detailers here. Someone asks me who to use in SoCal, Memphis, etc, I know people here who I can put them in touch with. Several detailers here can tell you that I have sent them business. I don't do it with the expecation the favor will be returned (although I appreciate when it is) but because the people on the other boards are my friends and I want to put them in touch with detailers who have high standards like the ones here. :)



Same thing in real life. You do good work for people and they are going to want to send their friends to you.
 
From the comments posted you can clearly see how important it is to connect with the right people. The way I see it, marketing a detailing business should almost never be aimed at a mass market. You have got to do things to focus in on the type of clients you have identified as your target market. Always dig where there is the most gold. Go after the professional people, such as doctors, dentists, lawyers, etc. The people who own small business are also a good targets. After all, they know what it is like to run a small business and they just may be tuned into keeping a nice car. Go out and make things happen. Talk to the people in your target market.



The other thought about keeping in touch with current customers is an important point. You should plan to doing at least four mailings a year. Of course, the more you here from an individual customer, the less they need to see any of your mailings. Those quarterly reminder post cards work well. Another idea is to put together a newsletter every once in a while. Remember, everything you do creates an image of who you are and what your business is all about.



Also, it is a good idea to plan on giving your customers some type of reward for sending you a new customer. For example, I send out a twenty dollars of certificate (to be used for their next detailing), to every customer who sends me a new customer. It's a good way to let your current customers know that you appreciate them spreading the word about your services. And it's a small price to pay for their efforts.



One last thought. Try sending out 'thank you' post cards about a week after every detailing job. These cards should simply give a few words of thanks to let your customers know that you sincerely appreciate their business. Just another way to help create that positive image.
 
Yes, 'Thank You' cards work well. I send one to each customer after a job. People comment on how it is a 'nice touch'. In addition, make sure your customer's walk away with something such as a receipt or invoice. Just another way for them to remember you and your business.
 
What you need to do is cater to those cheapos if you want to make money from them. You could of done the limos for say $120 a pop and just did a one step on them and a quick vacuum and been done.



To be honest, I do a ton of one steppers. Nobody wants to pay me in this area for a 3 step polish and paint correction.
 
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