Toyota Halts Sales of Eight U.S. Models After Recall

All three of you have a point. Regular maintenance can make a huge difference, but I still think Toyota rushed too many things to market.
 
yes they did......they are finding out the hard way......Bigger is not always Better !....That's what happens when you step on someone's turf (the Big 3) .You better have all your ducks in a row.
 
JaredPointer said:
I think one thing "we" keep forgetting is that mechanical things break. They are designed and built by humans, thus have a predisposition to failure. No one makes a perfect anything - let alone a vehicle.

And yes, how it is handled makes all the difference in the world.
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You are correct that things wear out and in time will need replaced but uncontrolled acceleration on a new car is not things that break it is a design flaw that is unacceptable.

I'm more willing to cut them some slack on the Prius because it is new technology but how they handel it is important.

Toyota did a software change on the Prius on the assembly line more than a month ago so they knew they had the brake problem.

When did they take action on this??? it was after it was on the evening news that the NHTSA was investigating them.
The next day Toyota announced the recall.

As I type this it is on the news that a recall on the Lexus is pending because of the same problems.

The Greenies that buy a hybrid should know they will have bugs.
Problems will always happen it is how it is handled that really matters most.
I think that the NHTSA has Toyota's attention now and from this point on we will see a big change in their attitude.
 
Well it's all good or at least we hope will be. I just don't wish problem to turn out for them as it did for Audi in 1985 with the Audi 5000. That was a disaster for Audi. I was in the Mercedes business at t hat time. We wouldn't even trade for one of those cars,everyone was scared of them.

As I said before....Toyota has gotten too big too fast trying to keep up with and or be superior to GM,Ford ,Chrysler in production numbers. Toyota has stopped building a car to a standard as they once did. That is what sold their cars.Product reliability .They don't have that........but they were advertising that they did. Time will only tell.But rest assured they will be under the microscope for a while.
 
cartoysautospa said:
Well it's all good or at least we hope will be. I just don't wish problem to turn out for them as it did for Audi in 1985 with the Audi 5000. That was a disaster for Audi. I was in the Mercedes business at t hat time. We wouldn't even trade for one of those cars,everyone was scared of them.

As I said before....Toyota has gotten too big too fast trying to keep up with and or be superior to GM,Ford ,Chrysler in production numbers. Toyota has stopped building a car to a standard as they once did. That is what sold their cars.Product reliability .They don't have that........but they were advertising that they did. Time will only tell.But rest assured they will be under the microscope for a while.
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All true but they will be ok this will make them far less cocky and they will get back on track but it will hurt them for a few years.
 
Toyota and Honda were responsible for making GM and Ford make better cars. I think GM had the most improvement needed of the two. Chrysler seems to have been hurt by the Diambler absorption and then spit back out.
 
IMO almost every mfg has had problems over the years

Chrysler transmissions are horrible (especially older mini-vans) as well as their electronics ...

Honda had really bad frame rust issues in the past

GM's 350 engines all had bad head gaskets about 70-90K

what about the non- H/O quad 4 engines? all crap !!

Fords have been notorious for bad suspensions and horrible tire wear especially in their truck division ... ask Pockets :lol2: and they didn't get their nicknames for no reason ... Found On Road Dead etc..

As mentioned before the Audis had their problems

Subaru has paint issues as well as Chrysler's and almost all cars from the 80's

the list goes on and on ... man made anything is bound to have its limitations ...some show up sooner than later ...:passout:
 
I never understood all of the Toyota hate. I know there is a core group of people that feel it is unpatriotic to buy anything but an American car. It doesn't matter where the vehicle if built, but rather what the badge looks like. I think it was last year on one of the business networks where some guy asked him what it was like driving a foreign car in an American race series like NASCAR. He replied that the Camry is the only car in the series that is actually built in America.

I've owned and driven three Chevy's, one Oldsmobile, two Saturns, a GMC, a Pontiac and now two Mazdas (along with the MGB). All of those vehicles had problems. Some I was able to handle while others were covered under warranty. None of those problems however have caused me to entirely write off one manufacturer.
 
Scott P said:
I never understood all of the Toyota hate. I know there is a core group of people that feel it is unpatriotic to buy anything but an American car. It doesn't matter where the vehicle if built, but rather what the badge looks like. I think it was last year on one of the business networks where some guy asked him what it was like driving a foreign car in an American race series like NASCAR. He replied that the Camry is the only car in the series that is actually built in America.

I've owned and driven three Chevy's, one Oldsmobile, two Saturns, a GMC, a Pontiac and now two Mazdas (along with the MGB). All of those vehicles had problems. Some I was able to handle while others were covered under warranty. None of those problems however have caused me to entirely write off one manufacturer.
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Part of the hate comes from the attitudes of some Toyota owners, who have had bad experiences in the past with a Detroit automaker's product, are very happy with their Toyota (nothing wrong there), and then want to preach to everyone else how superior Toyota is (or Honda, or Nissan, or whomever), and the Detroit automakers are this or that, and then they start spewing their hatred of labor unions and how superior Toyota supposedly treats their employees in the USA (or Honda, or Nissan, or whomever), etc, etc, etc. They'll bring up crap from more than fifteen years ago, sometimes even twenty years ago, but refuse to read what's been happening in the last ten years. It ends up being the worst manifestation of the "I drive cars, so I'm an expert on the auto industry" mentality. Go over to WSJ.com and read some of the comments there for a sample.

Your attitude is the opposite - I'd describe it as "stand-up" . You've had a number of makes, including Japanese, and no one is perfect. I only wish that many of the non Detroit car brand owners would have that open minded an attitude. They practically invite abuse.

It's not that I think it's unpatriotic to buy something other than an American brand, but I would be the first to admit that, after thirty months of unemployment for myself (that's two and a half years), and fourteen months for my wife, and counting, I wish that people would buy more from the Detroit 3. Myself and my wife are case perfect textbook examples that just because Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al have some manufacturing operations here in North America, that it doesn't come even close to replacing the economic losses from the Detroit 3 losing business. For every one job the transplants and the suppliers to the transplants have created in the USA, three jobs have been lost related to the Detroit 3, and the communities that depend on them. The result only fuels the attitude to Toyota.

Then, as if that wasn't enough, on top of all that, you have Toyota being sued by a former Toyota staff attorney, for hiding evidence of vehicle defects, and on top of that, a list of quality problems that's been growing steadily since 2000.
 
Len_A said:
Part of the hate comes from the attitudes of some Toyota owners, who have had bad experiences in the past with a Detroit automaker's product, are very happy with their Toyota (nothing wrong there), and then want to preach to everyone else how superior Toyota is (or Honda, or Nissan, or whomever), and the Detroit automakers are this or that, and then they start spewing their hatred of labor unions and how superior Toyota supposedly treats their employees in the USA (or Honda, or Nissan, or whomever), etc, etc, etc. They'll bring up crap from more than fifteen years ago, sometimes even twenty years ago, but refuse to read what's been happening in the last ten years. It ends up being the worst manifestation of the "I drive cars, so I'm an expert on the auto industry" mentality. Go over to WSJ.com and read some of the comments there for a sample.

Your attitude is the opposite - I'd describe it as "stand-up" . You've had a number of makes, including Japanese, and no one is perfect. I only wish that many of the non Detroit car brand owners would have that open minded an attitude. They practically invite abuse.

It's not that I think it's unpatriotic to buy something other than an American brand, but I would be the first to admit that, after thirty months of unemployment for myself (that's two and a half years), and fourteen months for my wife, and counting, I wish that people would buy more from the Detroit 3. Myself and my wife are case perfect textbook examples that just because Toyota, Honda, Nissan et al have some manufacturing operations here in North America, that it doesn't come even close to replacing the economic losses from the Detroit 3 losing business. For every one job the transplants and the suppliers to the transplants have created in the USA, three jobs have been lost related to the Detroit 3, and the communities that depend on them. The result only fuels the attitude to Toyota.

Then, as if that wasn't enough, on top of all that, you have Toyota being sued by a former Toyota staff attorney, for hiding evidence of vehicle defects, and on top of that, a list of quality problems that's been growing steadily since 2000.
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Len I have a couple comments no offense intended to you ...

First I'm almost 50 years old and until last year have never bought a foreign made vehicle ... I've owned dozens and dozens of American made vehicles from the big 3 ... Chrysler will never see another penny from me as this last mini-van has been the worst of the three I've owned and their service departments have been pathetic including the owner of the dealership ... they don't stand behind their product unless it's a pure warranty issue or you buy their extended warranty which I do own.
I've own quite a few Fords most of which had minimal problems over the years I owned them but their resale value was horrible and after they screwed a few of my friend that worked in their plants, I can not see giving them my hard earned money, and most of their interiors are pretty cheap IMO , GM which has been my main brand , I have a '67 Caddy, and a Quad442 which will both be with me until the day I die. My old Tahoe was pretty reliable and even held pretty good value when i sold it last year, but the new ones are quite a disappointment in comparison, besides having very high price tags for few options. We had an Equinox for a year before we just couldn't stand the poor gas mileage, the cooling system problems, and awful handling for an AWD vehicle in the snow .. one winter and it was gone the next Spring. I own a Sequoia now, is it a great truck? NO ! Is it better than the comparable alternatives ? YES !
They have thought through some very important interior comforts, for instance sliding rear seats for more leg room, less kicking from the kids behind us, and access to the third row. We looked at the standard fare of GM , Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon and even Hummer ... rear seat leg room was poor at best and the front buckets were not very comfortable for larger people.. yes it was a prettier interior but leg room front and rear is important here. The price tags were mind blowing, especially with a few options. So yes, I have given everyone a chance but Toyota came out on top for comfort and ride. Engine is good, but tranny is pretty poor, again IMO.
Now as far as you and your wife being out of work for that length of time, I really can't understand why you haven't moved on. Again no offense intended as i don't know your situation , but all of my friends , one who ran the KC Ford Lightning plant and another who had a pretty high job up in the Buffalo area, have changed professions and moved on as they had houses and children to support. Not working was not even an option. Was it tough? Damn sure, but the Unions of old put the big 3 in this position and thought those contracts were they got paid for not working was never going to affect them, wrong ! It had to catch up eventually to be competitive in the real world. Only politicians had it better than UAW workers. I don't pretend to know all about the deals that all the Foreign automakers give their employees here in the states, but a job is a job in this economy and many of us have to do jobs that we think is below us or does not pay for all the luxuries that many of us have become acostomed to. Bottom line here, again no offense inteded, but you can't sit there after two and half years of not working and have such deep resentment to an industry or company that fed you for many years ... time to move on ;)
 
Poorboy said:
Len I have a couple comments no offense intended to you ...

First I'm almost 50 years old and until last year have never bought a foreign made vehicle ... I've owned dozens and dozens of American made vehicles from the big 3 ... Chrysler will never see another penny from me as this last mini-van has been the worst of the three I've owned and their service departments have been pathetic including the owner of the dealership ... they don't stand behind their product unless it's a pure warranty issue or you buy their extended warranty which I do own.
I've own quite a few Fords most of which had minimal problems over the years I owned them but their resale value was horrible and after they screwed a few of my friend that worked in their plants, I can not see giving them my hard earned money, and most of their interiors are pretty cheap IMO , GM which has been my main brand , I have a '67 Caddy, and a Quad442 which will both be with me until the day I die. My old Tahoe was pretty reliable and even held pretty good value when i sold it last year, but the new ones are quite a disappointment in comparison, besides having very high price tags for few options. We had an Equinox for a year before we just couldn't stand the poor gas mileage, the cooling system problems, and awful handling for an AWD vehicle in the snow .. one winter and it was gone the next Spring. I own a Sequoia now, is it a great truck? NO ! Is it better than the comparable alternatives ? YES !
They have thought through some very important interior comforts, for instance sliding rear seats for more leg room, less kicking from the kids behind us, and access to the third row. We looked at the standard fare of GM , Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon and even Hummer ... rear seat leg room was poor at best and the front buckets were not very comfortable for larger people.. yes it was a prettier interior but leg room front and rear is important here. The price tags were mind blowing, especially with a few options. So yes, I have given everyone a chance but Toyota came out on top for comfort and ride. Engine is good, but tranny is pretty poor, again IMO.
Now as far as you and your wife being out of work for that length of time, I really can't understand why you haven't moved on. Again no offense intended as i don't know your situation , but all of my friends , one who ran the KC Ford Lightning plant and another who had a pretty high job up in the Buffalo area, have changed professions and moved on as they had houses and children to support. Not working was not even an option. Was it tough? Damn sure, but the Unions of old put the big 3 in this position and thought those contracts were they got paid for not working was never going to affect them, wrong ! It had to catch up eventually to be competitive in the real world. Only politicians had it better than UAW workers. I don't pretend to know all about the deals that all the Foreign automakers give their employees here in the states, but a job is a job in this economy and many of us have to do jobs that we think is below us or does not pay for all the luxuries that many of us have become acostomed to. Bottom line here, again no offense inteded, but you can't sit there after two and half years of not working and have such deep resentment to an industry or company that fed you for many years ... time to move on ;)
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I am 50 already - my, how time flies when you're having fun!

Neither of us worked directly for the auto industry. I'm industrial sales. Wife is a paralegal.

My situation is that most of my experience is selling to the auto industry, so trying to transition to another area of sales has been a challenge. And there aren't a hell of a lot of openings for outside sales people - any where. Slow economy has really crimped things. Still trying, and looking to get back into retail if I have to, but even in retail, companies are cutting back on people, and with some high profile retail bankruptcies, like Circuit City, Linens 'N Things Inc., Sharper Image Corp. and Steve & Barry's put a lot of experienced retail people out there going for fewer jobs.

My wife has over twenty years in as a paralegal - openings for paralegals around the country are low, and they're pigeonholed by practice group. Since she was automotive product liability for the last ten years of her career, guess what's holding her back?

Big thing in holding us back from relocating is finances and out house. We bought this house in 1998 for $212K, conventional 20% down, 30 year mortgage. We still owe about $157K. House is worth now less than $165K, and after some careful research, found out that not one house with in a three mile radius of my subdivision has sold by owner in the last ten years. If I use a Realtor, I'm looking at losing 6% in commissions and not clearing enough to pay off the mortgage, and even is we do, we walk away with nothing. And because we've been tapping the savings and retirement accounts, and the hit we took, like everyone else did in the stock market, money to relocate with is scarce.

Plus my parents are up here, and getting on in years, so that's a complication. We would love to move to Dallas. My brother lives there, my parents would more than likely follow, and I'd have some backup in caring for them as they get older. We already had one scare taking Dad to emergency last October. What outside sales openings I've seen in Dallas, and I've been lookign for two years, have been "local residents only need apply". If they don't put that in their job postings, they tell me that when I call to follow up on my resume.

I take no offense at what you posted - GM, Ford, and Chrysler put out plenty of crap, and pissed off plenty of customers. If it wasn't for the competition, they would still suck today. That said, I don't think people can judge them today by the past, any more than someone can legitimately praise current Toyota's by their experience with their 1993 Camry. The Japanese automakers have gone down in quality as their market share and production levels have expanded, while the Detroit 3's have gone up. BTW, resale values are improving as the Detroit 3 sell less to fleets, especially Ford's resale values, and interiors of GM & Ford have improved drastically in the last couple of years.

I'm not going to get into a debate on the unions - I've seen the good and the bad, and a lot of the bad is ancient history. And I've seen non-union plants that were better than unionized plants, and I've seen nonunion plants that I wouldn't trust to assemble tricycles for export to a third world country. As far as production quality, safety, and preventative maintenance, it was the union plants that were ahead of the nonunion plants for most of the last two decades. The only thing the nonunion plants had going for them was the youth of both their personnel and the age of the equipment in their plants. And now with all of last years contract changes at the Detroit auto companies, there is no financial advantage any longer for the transplants. Besides that, there's a lot more to the auto industry problems than the contracts. One, no one told management to make those deals, and two, all crappy product planning, design, and engineering decisions are all on management. Union workers had no say in those.

Next time you buy a new car, do some comparison shopping. A lot has changed. I don't know what year Sequoia you have, but one of my neighbors traded in his 2002 for a 2008, and last week he had a new Lincoln MKT in driveway. I was walking my dog last Saturday, and stopped to talk to him as his was pulling out of his driveway. When I asked what happened to the '08 Sequoia, all he would say is the '02 was rock solid (and I detailed it for him - it was rock solid), and the '08 disappointed him after 16 months of ownership, so he went shopping again, and took a hit on the '08. And this neighbor was one of those guys you couldn't say anything nice about GM, Ford, or Chrysler in front of, or he'd go off on you about how crappy all of his prior ones were. And you used to put down Lincoln fairly often. Now you can't shut him up about how fantastic he thinks his EcoBoost V-6 is, and how competitive he thinks his MKT crossover is. Go figure.
 
Len you certainly have been put in a bad place and it's quite easy now to understand your personal position, even though you did not need to explain yourself to me or anyone else here ... i wish you luck in the future ... again I won't try to say I know anything about the auto industry practice in Union and non-union plant but I do remember reading about the benefits and packages the union had that kept car prices uncompetitive ...
I only bought the Sequoia last winter and no it's not the greatest and I was comparing just a few weeks ago and the Sequoia is still better than the comparable vehicles (ask Pockets he went with me) ... if I were to move to a smaller vehicle then other options, ie other manufacturers would get another shot...;)
 
Poorboy said:
Len you certainly have been put in a bad place and it's quite easy now to understand your personal position, even though you did not need to explain yourself to me or anyone else here ... i wish you luck in the future ... again I won't try to say I know anything about the auto industry practice in Union and non-union plant but I do remember reading about the benefits and packages the union had that kept car prices uncompetitive ...
I only bought the Sequoia last winter and no it's not the greatest and I was comparing just a few weeks ago and the Sequoia is still better than the comparable vehicles (ask Pockets he went with me) ... if I were to move to a smaller vehicle then other options, ie other manufacturers would get another shot...;)
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Oh, the benefits were great, but now no one can afford to have them. Actually, I would have to say that what really kept prices uncompetitive for a long time was the cars themselves. My brother was a zone manager for Ford until he took a buyout, and I was an engineering supplier to several auto companies. Ford, prior to getting rid of Jac Nasser, put plenty of money into buying Jag, Land Rover & Aston Martin, the later only because William Clay Ford always liked Aston Martins, and then didn't put enough money into their passenger cars. Then they lost 3/4 of what they spent to buy them in the first place.

A lot of what was written about how the union contracts kept the car prices uncompetitive was one sided, and in a few cases inaccurate, but try get them to retract them.
 
The bottom line here with all auto manufactures.they get complacent ! after a while they over look what is really important in building cars ."Quality" they live on the past and don;t stay on the cutting edge of keeping their cars in the fore front of being the best. Mercedes Benz for example.....I have been fortunate over time to own 32 Mercedes. Mercedes was noted for building a car to a standard not to a price...well they build a car to a price now , not the before standard. The problem lies I think when they start to increase production..things fall by the way side. as they are interested in profit , and numbers. The original goal somehow gets gets lost.
Toyota is at that point ............it was all about the numbers, selling more cars in the USA and the World....More than the Big 3 . It's come back now to bite them in the posterior.I am sure Toyoda's grand father pioneer of Toyota is rolling over in his grave.
The only reason why the Big 3 is making a turn as they ......... almost plummeted last year with all their losses and low sales,problem cars etc.In any business it takes something devastating where you almost loose everything to get your sights back on track. It's getting back to the basic's. When they get back to the basic's then it will all be good again !

CarToys Inc
 
The whole episode highlights the national mood. People are not happy and like to blame someone for everything. They prey on the fears and sell it to us. The media just serves up the stuff for national consumption. They are just a reflection on us.
 
cartoysautospa said:
The bottom line here with all auto manufactures.they get complacent ! after a while they over look what is really important in building cars ."Quality" they live on the past and don;t stay on the cutting edge of keeping their cars in the fore front of being the best. Mercedes Benz for example.....I have been fortunate over time to own 32 Mercedes. Mercedes was noted for building a car to a standard not to a price...well they build a car to a price now , not the before standard. The problem lies I think when they start to increase production..things fall by the way side. as they are interested in profit , and numbers. The original goal somehow gets gets lost.
Toyota is at that point ............it was all about the numbers, selling more cars in the USA and the World....More than the Big 3 . It's come back now to bite them in the posterior.I am sure Toyoda's grand father pioneer of Toyota is rolling over in his grave.
The only reason why the Big 3 is making a turn as they ......... almost plummeted last year with all their losses and low sales,problem cars etc.In any business it takes something devastating where you almost loose everything to get your sights back on track. It's getting back to the basic's. When they get back to the basic's then it will all be good again !

CarToys Inc
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:wow: Wow, you've owned 32 Benz's...You must be rich or something

:inspector: Why do you have red dots... You must be important or something
 
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