Help for a newbie please

[ryan1984]

Hi there, my name is Ryan and i am from the UK.

I just want to say i under stand that Automotive Detailing is a very professional business and i would like to ask some info if you would not mind.

I own a BMW E39 528i steptronic saloon.

I like to always keep my car clean and do spend a lot of time and money on doing this, it always gets a wash once in 5 days:

. Hose down to remove the dirt on top of your top coat to stop any surface scratching when you wash the car

. I use Autoglym body wash with an Autoglym soft sponge to wash the car in, though after reading though here it seems that a sponge is not the best way, i might have to change this.

. Then i use an Autoglym soft blade to dry the car down then finish with the Autoglym chamois.

. Wax the car panels using Autoglym super wax, after 5 mins of applying buff off with cloth

. Then again going over each waxed panel using the Autoglym extra gloss protection to help protect the wax etc.

The above gives me very good results with no damage to the car etc BUT as you guys are the pros you can correct me on any thing you might think would work better.


Now the main reason i am posting in here is my small prob below:

Even though my car looks fab and clean, it even has that wet feel and look to the paint But at night if you park under a street light and have a look, you can see very faint swirls marks, now you cant see these in the day, even if you get a light you cant see them, but at night under a street light you can see these? What’s the best way to remove these by hand, last night i drove my car to a industrial estate and parked under a orange street lamp, got out had a look at the wing and there they were, i got my G3 compound with a clean soft cloth (wet) and just massaged a 6-7 inch area in until the compound buffed out with the water, then i buffed clean with a clean cloth, and i have to admit under the light you can see the difference.

Now my question is what would be the best way to remove these small lacquer swirls, now i did try a scratch x remover before the compound but it was not very good, so would it be safe to do my car in G3 keeping the panels wet, i have heard that you might need a finer past after that to get a better finish ( even though the area on the wing looks fantastic ) , or would just the compound work as it is followed with a good wax, or would another product be better?

The reason i talk about G3 is that i use it a lot on cars i work on in the garage ( home ) and my dad uses it ( he is a car paint sprayer ) etc, so we have tubs of it lol.

As you can see i need help from the pros like you guys to point me in the right direction, again the wing area i done looks grate but want info before i co over the car as i don’t want to cause damage, any help would be fantastic and it would mean a lot.

Sorry from the long post.

Ryan.

Happy New Year.

 

[CharlesW]

Hi Ryan;
Welcome to DC.
One reason you aren't getting a lot of answers is the New Year's holiday is keeping a lot of people busy tonight.
Another would be the lack of familiarity with the products you are using.
Autoglym seems to have a good reputation, but not a large following.
I'm certainly not a professional, but it looks like I'm all you are getting tonight.

1. Your wash regimen is probably where some of your paint flaws originate. Sponges can be of very different qualities as can any washing media. The only sponge I have used for washing has been a sea wool sponge. I have used a lot of cotton chenille mitts and sheepskin mitts. Any of those three have worked good for me. The artificial sponges may be fine, but I never felt comfortable with them.
2 Your "soft blade" and your chamois for drying could also be doing some marring. I happen to prefer good microfiber towels now, but I used 100% cotton terry towels with good results for years.
3. One thing some people aren't as careful about as I think they should be' be sure the car is clean before you dry it. If you drying product gets dirty, the car wasn't clean.
4. As far as waxing, I would also use the MF towel to remove the wax.
5. I don't know anything about the C3 compound, but just the word compound makes me nervous. Many/most compounds I have used really needed a machine to break down properly. Obviously the G3 worked for you with the hand application, so.... I think I would continue to do small sections of the vehicle and check the results regularly. It sounds like it is working for you and that is the main thing.

A good rule of thumb is to use the least abrasive product that will do the job. Maybe you have access to a less abrasive polish that you could try to see if it did the necessary correction.
Since you are familiar with the painting process, you probably already know that you don't remove the marring, you level the rest of the paint to match. Taking off as little paint as possible seems like a real good idea.

Maybe your dad could give it a quick once over with a rotary and then you could maintain it after that. :dunno:
One last comment, having a completely blemish free finish on a daily driver is almost impossible.

Happy New Year to you as well.

 

[cwcad]

I have nothing to add to what Charles W has already stated except....Step away from the glue. You must be breathing fumes. It appears that your vehicle is looking outstanding already. I guess I am not OCD enough because if I cannot see the marring in full sunlight I would not be worrying about any marring that I noticed at nite under a light from an industrial park.

Nice looking ride!!

 

[Clean Dean]

1. Your wash regimen is probably where some of your paint flaws originate. Sponges can be of very different qualities as can any washing media. The only sponge I have used for washing has been a sea wool sponge. I have used a lot of cotton chenille mitts and sheepskin mitts. Any of those three have worked good for me. The artificial sponges may be fine, but I never felt comfortable with them.
2 Your "soft blade" and your chamois for drying could also be doing some marring. I happen to prefer good microfiber towels now, but I used 100% cotton terry towels with good results for years.
3. One thing some people aren't as careful about as I think they should be' be sure the car is clean before you dry it. If you drying product gets dirty, the car wasn't clean.
4. As far as waxing, I would also use the MF towel to remove the wax.
5. I don't know anything about the C3 compound, but just the word compound makes me nervous. Many/most compounds I have used really needed a machine to break down properly. Obviously the G3 worked for you with the hand application, so.... I think I would continue to do small sections of the vehicle and check the results regularly. It sounds like it is working for you and that is the main thing.

A good rule of thumb is to use the least abrasive product that will do the job. Maybe you have access to a less abrasive polish that you could try to see if it did the necessary correction.
Since you are familiar with the painting process, you probably already know that you don't remove the marring, you level the rest of the paint to match. Taking off as little paint as possible seems like a real good idea.

Well said CharlesW

:dcrules

 

[ryan1984]

Hi there Charles, cwcad and Dean.

Thanks for the kind words on my car it means a lot, as said it looks very clean as it and it does look good but under a strong light or in the sun you can see these marks, again the average jo would think 'god that’s a clean car ' but i know that the swirls are there lol.

Before i can start to looking in to remove these swirls i have to get the cleaning right or i am gona undo what i am gona fix, so i will bin the sponge, and buy a good wash mitt, i done some reading on this and i can see how these stop ' swirling ‘, and also i will buy another bucket so i can use the 2 bucket method (one with your body wash, and another a one clean to rinses out etc).

Again by me drying i think i will have to change this as well by looking in to the microfiber towels again as this can help stop the swirls you can inflict etc.

I see what your saying about make sure its clean, before i dry it wash the car 2 times lol, might sound sad but this way i know the car has less chance to hold on to any dirt.

And as you say CharlesW i know a bit about paint and how it should be looked after etc but i want to do my home work and ask the guys that know a lot about this sort of things ( you guys ) , again it would be nice to compound the car back to get it so i can start from scratch and then i know i can look after it to keep it that way etc, but then again you don’t like the sound of this compound lol, i am thinking of changing from Autoglym to Meguiar's stuff, i have read up a lot of good things about there stuff, all so they do there own cutting stuff like this:

STEP 1 - Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner

Creating awesome results is not always possible in a single step; this three-step system is ideal for serious enthusiasts as well as those who have paintwork that has not been cared for as often as it should have been. Each product is designed to achieve a specific result and should be applied in numerical sequence.

STEP 2 – Deep Crystal Polish

Creating awesome results is not always possible in a single step; this three-step system is ideal for serious enthusiasts as well as those who have paintwork that has not been cared for as often as it should have been. Each product is designed to achieve a specific result and should be applied in numerical sequence.

Apply a panel at a time and remove before fully dry. This product is not a wax and doesn’t cut – it is a pure polish that conditions and nourishes the paint and is the secret to creating an awesome, deep, wet-look shine.

STEP 3 - Deep Crystal Carnauba Wax

Creating awesome results is not always possible in a single step; this three-step system is ideal for serious enthusiasts as well as those who have paintwork that has not been cared for as often as it should have been. Each product is designed to achieve a specific result and should be applied in numerical sequence.

I say i want to swap over to meguiars as i hear it’s not a good idea to mix different brands of stuff ie. Wax, polish, wash etc, so maybe that might be a better way?

As you say its better to start lighter than go straight in and i can see the sense in that, that’s a good bit of info, so i will ditch the idea of compound for now maybe, so might it be worth trying the 3/2/1 stage from meguiars you think? Or is there another brad you could point out that could be better? Bear in mind i am in UK and i can pick this up down the shops etc?

Meguiar's UK - Car Care Products

I see what your saying as well cwcad lol, again no one has ever pointed it out to me, so you cant see it unless your in the right light of time etc, but then again i know that its there and i am a geek at cleaning my car, i love to do it and i love to see the result and don’t mind putting the time in to do it, the main thing is once its done, if i keep on top of it and clean it once a week and wax it 1 once a month you should be able to keep the car 95% swirl free if done right, that’s what i am here for to learn

Ryan.

:cheers:

 

[cwcad]

Hi there Charles, cwcad and Dean.

I see what your saying as well cwcad lol, again no one has ever pointed it out to me, so you cant see it unless your in the right light of time etc, but then again i know that its there and i am a geek at cleaning my car, i love to do it and i love to see the result and don’t mind putting the time in to do it, the main thing is once its done, if i keep on top of it and clean it once a week and wax it 1 once a month you should be able to keep the car 95% swirl free if done right, that’s what i am here for to learn

Ryan.

:cheers:

Hey Ryan, I am glad that you took my comments in the spirit that it was given. You are doing quality work. A saying that a very good detailer of this forum uses all the time states, "OCD(Obcessive Compusive Detailing) should be encouraged" and I encourage you to continue to strive to that end. Although I do not use many Meguiar's products I have no doubt that the product that you have listed will give you stellar results.

It is without a doubt a certainty that if employing all the latest and greatest washing and drying techniques for process you will cut down on the marring that this process inherrently creates.

 

[ryan1984]

Hi cwcad, thanks for the info, as said i might have a look to go over to Meguiar's, this might sound stupid but i have to ask, when i go to use the step one (Deep Crystal Paint Cleaner) this is like a very light compound in its self but of a liquid form i think, now does it matter when applied and rubbed off what direction i apply it and wipe off etc as i am sure this would apply to any other product etc?

Any more info would still be fantastic guys

Ryan.

 

[cwcad]

Fortunately or unfortunately, I do all my corrections with a rotary or a PC so I cannot tell you from personal experience just what direction you should be employing. I know when I apply an LSP I use the strait line method.

I would think it would not matter if you are in corrective mode. My best advice would be to use an area for testing and see what method gives you the best look. I know that there are different schools of thought here. I also know that I am passing the buck. Sorry:redface:

 

[ryan1984]

Just out of interest Cwcad, you say you use some sort of buffer to do this?

Can i get the same quality job by hand? Or would it be better by machine etc?

Just to ask i see you get like the foam heads and sheepskin heads you can apply to drills to give you the same affect, is this ok or not, again info i need to make sure its done right lol.

Again thank you for the info and i hope you can help

Ryan.

 

[cwcad]

I have a friend of this forum who for a long period of time refused to purchase a mechanical means to care for her vehicle. she did all the work by hand and had a near flawless or perfect finsih to her well used daily driver. I asked her why she went to using a mechanical means to correct her paint finish she stated wuite simply, "I got tired." so the answer to your question is simply ...Yes. My question to you is how hard are you willing to work? It is obvious that you are willing to work just from the pictures that you have posted. But consider this...take the time that you have invested in your paint working by hand and total it up. I would venture to say that it would take half of the time to get the same level or condition and IMHO you would get better results.

I would look to one of the forum sponsors to purchase a mechanical instrument and the appropriate pads thru a kit sale that they have periodically. I have a PC and a rotary and use the same pads for both. I do not use my rotary much but when I do it is a real time saver when it comes to correcting. The PC is what I started with and is also my most valued tool. I would not leave home without it...so to speak.

A mechanical tool and pads can be purchased locally I am sure. What you won't get from purchasing locally is the support that comes from the vendors and the forum itself. Without support of the vendors here at DC there just would not be a forum at all.

 

[ryan1984]

Again the info you have gave is fantastic cwcad, the main reason i ask is that its not the time that really bothers me, the thing is to do it by hand i can get the whole car do with in a day, now if i was to look at removing these swirls could they be removed by hand or is it just a case of ' you will have to get a machine ' , i have looked around and Meguiar's do one for aprox £160, now that’s a lot of money for what it is, you get the 3 pads with it, and on there site there £6 each that leaves it down to aprox £142 ( bear in mind they wont pay £6 to make them ) now you can buy a top notch grinder for £40 , and its the same sort or thing, the only difference is they are 10x quieter with a speed selecting.

Now that above is that a rip off or are all these buffers round this price range?

Do you refer a ‘PC’ as a normal buffer? And what are the difference?


All so just to add look what i can get for aprox £73

Top car boat polisher, sander, buffer + big set1!! on eBay, also Cleaning, Waxing Valeting, Car Care, Car Accessories, Cars, Parts Vehicles (end time 07-Jan-08 08:21:38 GMT)

Item number: 200187529489

If you could have a look at that link and see if that sort of kit is ok, i have used one before on a small scratch that was put on a car and they work well but i think it was the sort that only spins round like this so you have to make sure you keep a layer of wax on the pad and paint to stop any heat build up etc?

Again i thank you for your help and it means a lot

Ryan.

 

[cwcad]

No, you do not have to have a machine. You can do it by hand. You are young. You have everything on your side to get the job done by hand. I on the other hand am old(lazy) and do not have the energy of a young man.

The grinder you spoke of is just that, a one speed GRINDER, and nothing more. I would never use a one speed grinder for polishing anything. I would purchase a variable speed rotary grinder/buffer or a PC 7424(G100 Meguiar's). I lean towards the PC because it is user friendly with a low learning curve. The rotary buffer with variable speed after becoming familiar with mechanical paint corredtion

 

[ryan1984]

Hi Cwcad, so the link i gave you to this buffer on ebay, you say you would never use a 1 speed grinder, this one has a 600 – 3000 rpm speed setting, would this make it better to use, ie that link that i posted would you say this would be ok?

Again i thank u 4 your help.

 

[cwcad]

Hi Cwcad, so the link i gave you to this buffer on ebay, you say you would never use a 1 speed grinder, this one has a 600 – 3000 rpm speed setting, would this make it better to use, ie that link that i posted would you say this would be ok?

Again i thank u 4 your help.

I am sorry I guess I did not see the link in your post and did not go and look at it. I am not familair with the product but it appears to be good. I am not sure of the pads either. In my perusal of the item it appears to be without a backing plate(I maybe wrong) so changing pads might become problematic(a hassel). I am sure that with your already keen eye you would do fine. Just take your time and practice on a test hood(bonnet) before going to your already near flawless paint on your vehicle.

the two products are not the same thing. one is a rotary(ebay) the other is a R.O.B.(random orbital buffer)it has a dual motion. The ROB is safer in application than a rotray but slower in corrective measures.

 

[ryan1984]

Arr right i see what you are saying, i have checked and you can get the pads on eBay so i think that’s fine, i know about the extra care you need to take with a Rotary but i would make sure care is applied lol and i would test on a old panel before i try lol.

i sent him a email as it says the unit allows you to select a rpm speed of 600rpm up to 3000rp, i have sent a email asking if this is the sort where you adjust the speed by the trigger or you have speed settings on a switch, as i don’t think it would be safe if it was controlled by tar trigger as on slip could cause a big prob lol, so i have sent a e-mail asking, i might have a look at getting one of these, and i will think i will take your advice and i am not even gona step near the compound as i can see this doing damage, but if i use the step 1 and 2 and step 3 on that polish/wax as the posts above on a practice panel i think this would be safer.

I think i know the do's and don’ts with a rotary but do you have any info you could give to me about these just to make sure.

Again i am sorry if i am starting to bug you with all these questions, its just i would like to learn more from the pros like your self’s

 

[CharlesW]

Just a quick question.
Do you have 110 volt power or 220 volt power in your part of the U.K.?
Most of the buffers/polishers sold in the states require 110 volt electricity.

 

[cwcad]

Ryan, I think that Charles asks a valid question. ARe you aware of what he asks? Do you have an inverter or converter. I do not know which it is.?

Next, so far there haven't been to many pro's taking the time to answer you. I am an expert on my opinion and the rest of the stuff that I have spoken of is worth exactly what it cost. Now with that disclaimer stated I will get back to my opinion's.

I would research other machines prior to purchasing the unit that you linked me too. Mostly because of the pads and the backing plate. Once you get started with knowledgeable paint correction the pads will become more important. Unless you think that the pads are to be readily available I would look into a hook and loop system.

 

[ryan1984]

Just a quick question.
Do you have 110 volt power or 220 volt power in your part of the U.K.?
Most of the buffers/polishers sold in the states require 110 volt electricity.

Hi Charles, we use a 220~240 volt system over here in the uk, we do have transformers to plug in that cuts them down to 110v if we need, we use them at work

 

[ryan1984]

Ryan, I think that Charles asks a valid question. ARe you aware of what he asks? Do you have an inverter or converter. I do not know which it is.?

Next, so far there haven't been to many pro's taking the time to answer you. I am an expert on my opinion and the rest of the stuff that I have spoken of is worth exactly what it cost. Now with that disclaimer stated I will get back to my opinion's.

I would research other machines prior to purchasing the unit that you linked me too. Mostly because of the pads and the backing plate. Once you get started with knowledgeable paint correction the pads will become more important. Unless you think that the pads are to be readily available I would look into a hook and loop system.

So the machine looks ok in your eyes but you think maby i might have a prob in finding replacmen pads etc, thats a good point i will have to look in to, would a backing plat be better then so i can just apply like a universal pads etc? :cheers:

 

[Poorboy]

that buffer is not random orbital, but a rotary:idea

you might want to check with a place like

www.motorgeek.co.uk (which is similar to our Autogeek, but not owned by the same people)
for a random orbital unless you have a lot of experience using a rotary ...your car is too nice to mess it up :notme: :howdy