Guns and Violence Today

JaredPointer said:
The guns will be in the wrong hands whether or not we have laws that ban or limit the issuance of them. Criminals are going to be criminals.

As far as the ability to do more harm with them than with a knife, I can buy into that. But I'm still a firm believer that if the gun had never been invented, we'd still be subject to violence in some other way using some other tool. It's people not wanting to take responsibility and blame an inanimate object (the gun) for the actions of a person.

As far as the high school "massacres" go, I think there's a lot more to it than just some kid had access to a gun. I personally think a lot of it goes back to my statement earlier about society not teaching any kind of value or responsibility. I think that has a lot more to do with the school events in the big picture than just the fact that a gun was available/used.
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AMEN to That!!

Richard
 
Mikeyc said:
:sorry: I have to disagree with you. The problem is both the guns and the people. If there were no guns then no one would get shot and if there were no crazy people no one would get shot either. It needs to be harder for the wrong people to get their hands on guns. If that means honest people can't have guns I'm 100% OK with that. What does a person need a gun for anyway? Don't try to tell me you need it to hunt to feed your family. If it means even saving 20 lives a year, then I think it's worth it.

Bottom line is there are two fronts we can address when it comes to gun deaths: the guns and the people behind the guns. In order to reduce gun related deaths we need to address BOTH sides of the problem not just one. PLEASE don't tell me this is 1984-ish. That's ridiculous. There are and have been many, many things the government tells us we cannot have/do. Just because I'm suggesting one more doesn't mean I think the gov't should be "big brother."

I'm not trying to persuade you because I know I won't. I just want to state my case. You're from Alabama where I'm sure people have no issue with guns. I live in the Northeast where if you see a gun once every ten years it's a lot.
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WOW that is a scary view point.


Richard
 
Here's a few quotes from the above article.

Over the years, gun violence has continued to plague the city, reaching staggering levels at times.

It didn't happen. Guns kept coming. And bodies kept falling.


In 1977, the first full year of the ban, the city recorded 192 homicides. The total rose to 223 in 1981, then fell to 147 in 1985 - the lowest annual homicide toll in the District since 1966. At the time, the rate for the country also was trending down.

Which turned out to be the calm before the slaughter.

The advent of the crack market and the unprecedented street violence it unleashed nationwide sent homicide rates soaring in the latter half of the 1980s. Not only did the number of killings surge in the District, the homicide rates here also far exceeded the rates in crack-ridden cities where handguns had not been banned.

In the peak year, 1991, the District reported 482 homicides.

Almost as sharply as violence in the District increased, it declined through the 1990s, a drop researchers attributed to the burning out and aging of a generation of crack dealers and users. Again, the shift reflected national trends.

Yet the gun culture on the city's mean streets during the crack epidemic has not abated, police statistics show. Even as the homicide toll declined in D.C. after 1991, the percentage of killings committed with firearms remained far higher than it was when the ban was passed.

Guns were used in 63 percent of the city's 188 slayings in 1976. Last year, out of 169 homicides, 81 percent were shootings.

Meanwhile, periodic ATF reports have documented that firearms, flowing in from elsewhere in the country, remain available on D.C. streets - exactly what the ban was designed to prevent.
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“And the National Rifle Association says that, "Guns don't kill people, people do,” but I think the gun helps, you know? I think it helps. I just think just standing there going, "Bang!" That's not going to kill too many people, is it? You'd have to be really dodgy on the heart to have that…”

-Eddie Izzard
 
JaredPointer said:
Not really surprising. We live in a society that condones poor values and idolizes people who display poor life choices just because they are athletes, movie stars, musicians, etc. The people committing the crimes have no real deterrent to committing them. The legal and prison system is laughable. Discipline has been taken out of the schools. We teach our children at a young age to "act however makes you feel like you are expressing yourself" and then scratch our heads in amazement when they turn out to be rotten eggs. Most importantly, we live in a society that has no regard for responsibility. Did something wrong? Hey, it's not your fault! Blame and/or sue __________________.

And another one that plays a big role in the deterioration of our society - political correctness. We should be able to call a spade a spade. Period.
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I read through this entire thread but I felt that this quote pretty much sums it up, I this problem getting worse and worse in my generation (I'm 20, so let's say anywhere from mid-teens to early 20's?). Sure it's not the only age group that has this problem, but it's becoming predominately worse among this group. The thought that someone or something will bail you out and that you don't owe anything to anyone plays a HUGE part in the violence we see/hear about all the time. If there's no consequences, or if those whose job is to enforce said consequences aren't doing their part or perhaps waisting their time somewhere else, why worry about getting in trouble? Like the old saying goes "It's only illegal if you get caught", right? :hmmm:

We teach our children at a young age to "act however makes you feel like you are expressing yourself" and then scratch our heads in amazement when they turn out to be rotten eggs.
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I agree 100% here, but I'm a believer that you should let your children make their own decisions but the parents still need to step up and provide guidance when needed. We as a society don't really think before we act, we indulge into our thoughts and desires without thinking of the consequences. I'm not saying everyone does, but I guarantee we've all been there before. You'd think we'd all have enough common sense to consider the consequences of our hostile actions before we act upon them.


I was raised around firearms and from a very early age my dad taught me and my siblings how to handle them properly, when it's appropriate to use them, and how you might handle a situation where you come face-to-face with someone in the hands of a firearm. If everyone was taught the same I think it would tremendously cut down on the amount of gun-related crimes in our nation, but it's for sure not going to put a stop to it. Everyone has their own issues and you can't put a stop to that, there's always going to be folks out there who pull the trigger for the wrong reason.

The references to prohibition, gun control (or lack there-of, now seriously what in the hell is the true definition of gun control???), the war on drugs, etc. shows that just because you outlaw something doesn't mean it's going to get rid of the problem, to me it looks like crimes related to these issues rise higher and higher whenever something is outlawed.
We're waisting cell space on idiotic crimes like possession of illegal substances, what we should be doing is locking up all the ^%$@^$@ pricks that commit gun-related crimes. Show these pricks that we do mean business and that if you do commit a gun-related crime, your ass is grass. But we need to justify these crimes more than we currently do. If some a-hole is breaking into your house or is trying to kidnap your child and you shoot him/her, GOOD FOR YOU! Don't drag the victim(s) through court and sue them for your wounds or throw them in jail for murder. What in the hell would the people creating the verdict do if they found themselves in a similar situation? Sit back and cry like a pansy? I sure as hell hope not!

I think I'd rather face off someone with a gun than someone with a box cutter or plastic fork. Don't ask me why because even I can't answer that, I just think it's rediculous to not have guns at all.
 
A case and point of a senseless killing today is the shooting of NFL player Sean Taylor in FL.....what a lose to his family with a guy that had worked so hard to beat the odds of getting into the NFL and is gunned down by some punk robbing his house:wall
 
Beemerboy said:
A case and point of a senseless killing today is the shooting of NFL player Sean Taylor in FL.....what a lose to his family with a guy that had worked so hard to beat the odds of getting into the NFL and is gunned down by some punk robbing his house:wall
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In a way it's sad and all, but if you read anything about this guy he seemed sort of like a punk himself. I'll probably take heat for that, but like I said do some reading on the guy and draw your own conclusions...

To refer back to one of my earlier posts in this thread, he'd be one of the type guys I refer to when I stated that we idolize the wrong kind of folks just because they're athletes, actors, etc.

EDIT: And just for clarification, let me say that I am in no way justifying what happened to the guy. Just read the facts on the guy and on the incident and draw your own conclusions.
 
The only thing I read about this tragedy is the fellow that was slain, took a machette to a gun fight. Big mistake.:sorry:
 
JaredPointer said:
In a way it's sad and all, but if you read anything about this guy he seemed sort of like a punk himself. I'll probably take heat for that, but like I said do some reading on the guy and draw your own conclusions...

To refer back to one of my earlier posts in this thread, he'd be one of the type guys I refer to when I stated that we idolize the wrong kind of folks just because they're athletes, actors, etc.

EDIT: And just for clarification, let me say that I am in no way justifying what happened to the guy. Just read the facts on the guy and on the incident and draw your own conclusions.
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While it is very sad that this young man lost his life. I do have to lean toward agreeing with what your saying. There are in fact many many players in the NFL that are in fact still involved in gangs that they were involved wiht as youths. They are now contributing money and other various things. (Case in point Mike Vick) Sorry but many of those NFL players are straight up thugs with money.

Richard
 
The shooting at the church in Colorado is another case of guns in the wrong hands of people...unbelievable
 
I am not sure if I heard right but I had heard or read that these new kids were quoting the Columbine kids?

And not to go off topic, although somewhat...I was shocked to see how many people were wearing Vick jerseys last night, and his teammates wearing his number in his support like he was some sort of victim in all of this.
 
Stephan said:
I am not sure if I heard right but I had heard or read that these new kids were quoting the Columbine kids?

And not to go off topic, although somewhat...I was shocked to see how many people were wearing Vick jerseys last night, and his teammates wearing his number in his support like he was some sort of victim in all of this.
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My wife made a comment about the game they talked about him way to much last night...I can see showing support for a team member but not one that is a criminal...looks like if he can stay in shape they will bring him back to the team
 
Stephan said:
I am not sure if I heard right but I had heard or read that these new kids were quoting the Columbine kids?
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I can see some folks' argument now.... Let's ban the media. If it weren't for the media outlets, people wouldn't be doing this! You can't copycat if you don't see it in the media!

Yep, let's place the blame everywhere except for where it belongs! :rolleyes:
 
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