Coated and uncoated leather care?

[CharlesW]

It seems to be commonly thought that using a leather conditioner on coated leather seats is not really of any benefit. What I often hear is that if the coated leather doesn't absorb liquids, how is it going to absorb the conditioner. Kinda makes sense, but.....
Making sense doesn't really appeal to me so I have always used a leather conditioner on my coated leather seats.
I have no idea whether the conditioner penetrates the leather, but the seats in our 2000 Grand Prix with about 60,000 miles on it still look great. I see a lot of cars that are much newer and have far fewer miles that have leather that doesn't compare.
This is GM coated leather so it isn't the greatest leather in the world and I can't help but think taking care of it, both cleaning and conditioning, has to have been a good thing.
Do conditioners penetrate coated leather in some way?

All these words to say:
Use a conditioner= Stays nice.
Don't use a conditioner= Goes to crap.
Why?

Charles

 

[Beemerboy]

Charles

I've had the same thoughts and had the same experience with my seats...I just have to figure that even thought they are clear coated that its a breathable clear, if that makes any sense...and allows some of the conditioner to soak in...The reason I say this is if you spill something like juice or get pen marks on the leather, it soaks in and can stain the leather...that leads me to think that the clear is somewhat porous. I know with one car that I detailed, the back seat had some permanent marker from the person sitting on the pen...not pretty...I used Stoners Xient and that lifted about 95% plus of the ink...you could still see it very faintly...then the conditioner was applied....I had to believe that they clear was breathable...I have no factually data on this just my experience is all

 

[Bunky]

I have no idea whether the conditioner penetrates the leather, but the seats in our 2000 Grand Prix with about 60,000 miles on it still look great.

I have been asking similar questions on another forum that haves proponents of the water based protectants for top coated leather. BTW, these products contain OIL too. I might as well use 303 on my top coated leather seats since their products are expensive.

I saw a statistic that 80% of the leather today is top coated (auto, home) and I suspect 90% are then using the wrong product on the leather so as you have observed something is just not adding up. The nasty "oil" based conditioners could only do real harm if they broke down the top coat but that is not appearing to happen.

 

[Poorboy]

Charles I don't think a coated seat will absorb anything other than if you used a petroleum based product, which would begin to breakdown the coating.
Water-based products are cheaper and easier to use.
Getting some UV protection couldn't hurt either

 

[CharlesW]

Charles I don't think a coated seat will absorb anything other than if you used a petroleum based product, which would begin to breakdown the coating.
Water-based products are cheaper and easier to use.
Getting some UV protection couldn't hurt either

Over the years I have used Eagle One, 4 Star
Ultimate, Lexol, Tanner's Preserve, Poorboy's Natural Look, Klasse VLRP, 303 Protectant and I'm not sure that I could really tell any difference in my leather other than the smell.
Right now, I'm back to cleaning weekly with Woolite & water or 4 Star Cleaner, then Lexol once a month and 303 weekly.

Charles

 

[Anthony O.]

Coated leathers are protected while aniline leathers are "feed" to keep them supple.

The heavier oils used for aniline leathers (very rare in cars today) should not be used with coated leathers as they may be detrimental to the coating in the long run.

Those heavy oils and waxes will sit on the top which will attract and trap more dirt and oils and it is these critters that degrade the finish on coated leathers.

Use more foam in cleaning, less water. Don't use any thing like "Soft Scrub" or "Bon Ami" to clean leather as this will be a quick death of your leather coating. Use a water based protector to protect your leather, one with UV absorbers and it should NOT change the appearance of your leather!

In other words leather should be left with a matt finish and not one that is glossy and shiny. That's an indication that it's leaving behind something you don't want.

Anthony

 

[Bunky]

Charles I don't think a coated seat will absorb anything other than if you used a petroleum based product, which would begin to breakdown the coating.
Water-based products are cheaper and easier to use.
Getting some UV protection couldn't hurt either

What water based product do you recommend? Leather Master is very expensive.

 

[Poorboy]

What water based product do you recommend? Leather Master is very expensive.

we have Leather Stuff and Natural Look , Charles uses both Natural Look and 303 ...there are also others available

 

[CharlesW]

Right now, I'm back to cleaning weekly with Woolite & water or 4 Star Cleaner, then Lexol once a month and 303 weekly.

Charles

After doing some extensive research on the internet and based on the comments in this thread, it seems that I might be better off to skip the Lexol and just use a water based product such as the NL or 303 on my coated leather.
I do think Lexol is water based, but it probably has oils that benefit uncoated leather that aren't all that good for coated leather.

Guess I'll either have to get a horse and saddle to use up my Lexol or maybe just give it to someone that has uncoated leather.

Charles

 

[Troy@Protekt]

It would make sense that coated leather would not be benefited by using a leather conditioner rather than a vinyl/rubber water-based dressing. All I can say is I have seen coated leather become noticeably softer and more supple using a leather conditioner.

So judging by my experience, I would say that some leather conditioners designed for automotive leather are beneficial even when the leather is coated. Is it soaking through? Is it getting in through the stitching or breather holes? I don't know. All I know is I will continue to use leather conditioner on coated leather because I see it as beneficial.

 

[Beemerboy]

It would make sense that coated leather would not be benefited by using a leather conditioner rather than a vinyl/rubber water-based dressing. All I can say is I have seen coated leather become noticeably softer and more supple using a leather conditioner.

So judging by my experience, I would say that some leather conditioners designed for automotive leather are beneficial even when the leather is coated. Is it soaking through? Is it getting in through the stitching or breather holes? I don't know. All I know is I will continue to use leather conditioner on coated leather because I see it as beneficial.

Troy

I'm along with you on the LC and using it, I have and can see the difference ...however I go back to what I said at the top of this thread....if the leather is top coated and the LC can not soak in...then how dose red wine, ink, soda, fruit juice soak in and stain the leather, would they not just run off the top?...are these things eating threw the clear coat? I really don't think that they are...I believe that the clear on the leather has some breathable qualities to it

 

[CharlesW]

It would make sense that coated leather would not be benefited by using a leather conditioner rather than a vinyl/rubber water-based dressing. All I can say is I have seen coated leather become noticeably softer and more supple using a leather conditioner.

So judging by my experience, I would say that some leather conditioners designed for automotive leather are beneficial even when the leather is coated. Is it soaking through? Is it getting in through the stitching or breather holes? I don't know. All I know is I will continue to use leather conditioner on coated leather because I see it as beneficial.

I knew there was a good reason I was using that Lexol.
What the heck, if any detrimental effects come from it, I doubt that I will notice. I rarely keep a vehicle longer than 10 or 15 years.
Besides, now I don't need to buy a horse and saddle.

Charles

 

[Poorboy]

Troy

I'm along with you on the LC and using it, I have and can see the difference ...however I go back to what I said at the top of this thread....if the leather is top coated and the LC can not soak in...then how dose red wine, ink, soda, fruit juice soak in and stain the leather, would they not just run off the top?...are these things eating threw the clear coat? I really don't think that they are...I believe that the clear on the leather has some breathable qualities to it

I think it's staining it just as your clear on the outside of the car can be stained by sap , berries ,etc ... I agree with Anthony that in the long run oil based conditioners that were made to feed uncoated leather will deteriorate the clear that is protecting the leather .

 

[CharlesW]

I agree with Anthony that in the long run oil based conditioners that were made to feed uncoated leather will deteriorate the clear that is protecting the leather .

It appears that the Lexol Leather Conditioner falls into the water based category.

LEXOL does not contain any chemical solvents. As an aqueous emulsion.....

An aqueous solution is a solution in which the solvent is water

I also read where vehicle manufacturers tested many different leather conditioners and didn't feel there was any significant differences as to preserving automotive leather. Of course, I read it on the Internet so who know?

I'll bet that PB's Leather Stuff smells better than Lexol.

Charles

 

[Poorboy]

I'll bet that PB's Leather Stuff smells better than Lexol.

Charles

I would take that bet

 

[Bunky]

This is the response I got on another forum by TOGWT

Polyurethane (covered leather) does not completely seal leather per se; it’s a thermoplastic and therefore remains pliable to follow the flexing of the leather upholstery. The finishes have to remain somewhat porous (to allow hydration) A water-based product accomplishes this with an emulsion of micro droplets of oil (for surface lubrication) and water that permeate the leather finish and / or the polyurethane as the emulsions molecular structure is smaller than the molecules of the finished leather or the polyurethane covering. Hydration is important to ensure that the leather hide does not dry out as this would make the leather more liable to absorb stains / spillages. Once these are absorbed they can be impossible to remove.

Leather is a natural product and its surface contains pores, this helps the leather to breathe.
The surface of the leather, if looked at under a microscope, will show an uneven surface and when leather becomes soiled, the soiling embeds itself into the 'valleys' of the leather. Gentle agitation is what is required for cleaning, by rubbing hard on the leather surface; you will only push the dirt deeper into the leather.


"Why does the cream [my comment was about Leather Master] have oils?"
The oils are used as a surface lubricatant to ensure the leather / urethane surface is not abraded. Gentle agitation is what is required for cleaning, by rubbing hard on the leather surface; you will only push the dirt deeper into the leather.

 

[Beemerboy]

So my assumption about the clear on the leather being breathable is correct....I had to figure that it was

Also TOGWT posts at a BMW site that I go to....his post are always very informative...he told me that they are in the concourse detailing...based on his knowledge I would think so

This is the response I got on another forum by TOGWT

Polyurethane (covered leather) does not completely seal leather per se; it’s a thermoplastic and therefore remains pliable to follow the flexing of the leather upholstery. The finishes have to remain somewhat porous (to allow hydration) A water-based product accomplishes this with an emulsion of micro droplets of oil (for surface lubrication) and water that permeate the leather finish and / or the polyurethane as the emulsions molecular structure is smaller than the molecules of the finished leather or the polyurethane covering. Hydration is important to ensure that the leather hide does not dry out as this would make the leather more liable to absorb stains / spillages. Once these are absorbed they can be impossible to remove.

Leather is a natural product and its surface contains pores, this helps the leather to breathe.
The surface of the leather, if looked at under a microscope, will show an uneven surface and when leather becomes soiled, the soiling embeds itself into the 'valleys' of the leather. Gentle agitation is what is required for cleaning, by rubbing hard on the leather surface; you will only push the dirt deeper into the leather.


"Why does the cream [my comment was about Leather Master] have oils?"
The oils are used as a surface lubricatant to ensure the leather / urethane surface is not abraded. Gentle agitation is what is required for cleaning, by rubbing hard on the leather surface; you will only push the dirt deeper into the leather.

 

[Bunky]

I am guessing that Lexol is a cross-over product. It is not a traditional conditioner (old type rich in oils) and more like the water-based solution. The debate seems to be over whether the water or oil is working on the leather once it migrates into the interior. Most people do not like Lexol just because of the smell but I have never used it so I would not know. I have used Meguiars (!) combo product on my top coated leather. The seat did not melt...

 

[Troy@Protekt]

Did I just see Steve agree with Anthony? :wow: :gotcha:

Leather conditioners that are rich in oils meant to condition saddles and baseball mitts shouldn't be used on coated leathers. I believe most automotive leather conditioners are formulated to account for the fact most people do not know their leather is coated.

I will be honest and say that I am not an expert on leather but my experience tells me that coated leather can be softened and treated with leather conditioners formulated for use in automobiles.

 

[Bunky]

I knew my seats were just leather in the seating areas then it dawned on my I was trying to condition the vinyl trim! Funny thing was the vinyl was not greasy....but I will definitely switch to a protectant product.