World Rally Blue 2022 BRZ Meets Gyeon Pure Evo

[Desertnate]

HPDE is an acronym for "High Performance Driving Education". Yes I looked it up on Google.
Are there "classes" offered through high performance driving training business, like Skip Barber`s Racing School, OR though vehicle manufacturers when you buy a high-performance car and pay for such a class at a track as an option to get the most out of that vehicle.

The more common definition I`ve heard/seen is "High Performance Driving Event". They are essentially organized open track days at road courses all over the US. There are a lot of organizations that host them like SCCA, NASA, Chin Racing Days, Laps Incorporated etc.

The safe, well organized ones are divided up into three or four run groups based on experience/skill level: Novice, Intermediate, Expert (or variations of the same, some use color codes). Unless you can produce an SCCA or NASA racing license or instructor certificate, most will force every driver who has not done an event with them will start in the Novice group where having an instructor in the car all day is mandatory. When I did an event in my GTI with Laps Incorporated, their rule was 3 events in the novice group with an instructor before they move you to intermediate where you get to drive by yourself.

Each run group has their own session on track by themselves; usually 15-20 minutes at a time in rotation. I actually had 4 sessions at the event I attended. By that time I was exhasted and the car was tired.

Rules on the track are strictly enforced, like you an only pass at certian places and only after the driver in front has given you the "point by". The advanced/expert groups may be a little more lax since they should all be able to get themselves around the track without crashing into anyone.

OK, I will check it out on Wikipedia: Seems like it`s an introduction to autocross events and what you need equipment wise, along with teaching high-speed/performance driving skills.

Actually it isn`t. HPDE`s are for full-on road racing courses. Autocross events are a totally different animal. HPDE`s are non-competitve and often non-timed track sessions. Anyone can show up in a safe vehicle and compete right out of the gate at an autocross event which is timed. Also, autocross is usually done in any parking lot or other open spot with enough room to safely build a course with cones. Speeds are WAY low and wear/tear on the car is far less.

Speaking of driving skills, an editor of a car magazine (Road and Track, I think) had his teen-age girls go through a winter-driving school in Colorado put on by Bridgestone tires. He said it was the best money he spent on driver education for young people. I am NOT laughing, as some (NOT all) of the accidents during Wisconsin winters are caused by drivers unfamiliar with winter driving, especially immigrants/relocated individuals from non-snow areas of this world or US nation who have NEVER driven in snow until that first snow fall. NOT a good time to learn how on public roads driving next to them. ABS does NOT stop a SUV or AWD vehicle in snow quickly if the driver is going too fast for conditions. Laws of physics still apply, including co-efficient of friction of a surface substrate and the tires that they are traveling over, not to mention driver reaction times due to visibility limitations. (You do know you are required to clean the snow off ALL your vehicle`s windows before you start driving, not just what the front wipers remover, right?? OR get blown off when you start driving at highway speeds OR melt off as the vehicle warms up. Tell-tail sign of a "novice" (politically-correct term/title) winter driver.)

I saw that too in Car and Driver. I forget what program they attended. SCCA and Tire Rack host "Teen Survival" courses all over the US in the warmer months. I think the one I read about in Car and Driver was locally sponsored by some organization at NCM Motorsports Park.

I really wish my girls had an opportunity to attend something like that. Heck, I would have liked to have done something like that as a kid. Instead, I had to learn in a snowy parking lot and the bits my dad taught me at the time.

 

[981 Cayman S]

Just make sure you upgrade your brake fluid...and maybe your pads. I did an HPDE on OEM pads and did OK, but would have boiled the fluid if I hadn`t upgraded it.

How far away is Mid Ohio? The best HPDE tracks for me are all about 3~5 hours away. Going to any of them adds the cost/complication of at least one overnight stay.

I think everyone needs to do a couple HPDE at sometime in their lives. I really need to do one in this car.

Thanks for the tips! Got some good local shops to do the tech/work needed. I’ll only be doing 2 or 3 laps w my car, none consecutively & with instructor in car. It’s a ‘dip your toe’ (and maybe get addicted) session in the midst of a larger 3-day HPDE put on by Porsche Club of America local chapters. Fortunately Mid-Ohio is only about 45 minutes away.

When we bought Corvette in 2019 Chevy threw in a certificate for 2-day Corvette track school at Spring Mountain outside of Vegas. We were set to go in March 2020…but then the world shut down for a year; that woulda been fun w their cars, their instructors…was not to be :shrug:

Fun is where ya find it!


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[Oneheadlite]

Ooooh - Mid Ohio is one I regret not doing when I had my E36 M3 track puppy.

Watch some in car videos to get a feel for the place.

I`ll never forget going for a ride with a friend there way back when. He and his friend both had E46 M3s all set up for track duty, they`d run around nose to tail all the time and I had ridden with both of them at other tracks (at the time I was crewing for my now-boss). My first time at Mid Ohio my boss was adamant I get out and experience the track with one of the boys. Turns out they had an agreement out of earshot that on the first lap the one I was riding with would go hot through one of the most fun sections on the out lap. Back straightaway, right hander uphill to a blind left hand over crest. There I was, riding along not knowing where the track goes, and we`re hauling the mail. And then the track disappears. :blink: Once my stomach came down from my throat and I un-puckered I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

One thing you might talk to your shop about is if they recommend running your engine oil overfull. Obviously P-cars are a whole different world, but BMWs it`s common practice to run them a quart over filled on track days to help cut down oil starvation (at the oil pump pick up) in sustained high G corners and under heavy braking. +1 on Desertnate`s brake fluid flush recommendation. Given low weight and Porsche brakes I`m guessing your stock pads will be up to snuff, but make sure they`ve got enough material remaining - 5mm is fine for the street, but I don`t run them that thin for track use.

Lonnie - Regarding Auto X vs HPDE. I used to be an avid autocrosser back in the day (2000 to about 2012), and I`ve also done a handful of HPDE`s/schools.

While guys that have only done high speed events like to poke fun at autocrossing due to lower overall track/driving time, I thoroughly enjoyed the "intensity" of that format. Depending on the venue, runs were typically between 30-120 seconds, during which time you`re working to extract the maximum out of your power, brakes, tires, and course surface. You get to do course walks before the timed runs start, during which you`d look at the layout for that event and decide what driving line you`d be shooting for. Then, after doing your first timed run you get a feel for how the car is responding to what you want to do. Then I`d spend the rest of the runs finding the fastest blend of the two (what the car wants vs what you want). The driving gets split into groups, with the people not driving out working the course to reset any cones hit and to help with timing. So when you`re not in the heat of the driving moment, you get a bunch of social time with a group of like minded car nuts.

HPDE`s to me always felt like go-karting, but with horsepower. Fun, but a different kind of fun (at least for me). There`s definitely an intensity when you`re running high speed, but overall compared to Autocrossing things "feel" like they`re happening so much slower. It`s kinda zen because you`ve got time to live in those moments and really feel out what`s happening - feeling the tires set on turn in, weight shifting, making use of your "traction circle", threshold braking, etc. Autocross helped greatly with my high speed endeavors because it hard wires car control into you. In my experience, it`s common to see people transition well from autocrossing to high speed events, but not always the other way around.

Like Desertnate mentioned, high speed events definitely lead to more wear and tear on the car. Not uncommon to run brake pads rated for higher temperatures, and typically a set of rotors matched to them. Tire life can be as low as a weekend depending on what you`re running and how much track time you get, brakes are also a watch-them-wear item. I`ll also never forget the first event I ran at BIR in my E36 M3 - we ran the long course with the nearly 1 mile long straight. Short version car description - full suspension but stock engine/software/exhaust - even with unmodified drivetrain, during a one day event I spent about $150 dollars in fuel (and this was circa about 2005 fuel pricing).

 

[Desertnate]

Thanks for the tips! Got some good local shops to do the tech/work needed. I’ll only be doing 2 or 3 laps w my car, none consecutively & with instructor in car. It’s a ‘dip your toe’ (and maybe get addicted) session in the midst of a larger 3-day HPDE put on by Porsche Club of America local chapters. Fortunately Mid-Ohio is only about 45 minutes away.

Only 2~3 non-consecutive laps? That isn`t much. I`d probably still upgrade the brake fluid because you know the bug will bite you. You`ll be back.

I`m surprised they aren`t at least consecutive. It will be really hard to teach you much or even get a good feel for the track if you can`t repeat the laps back to back. One of the few things I dislike about autocross is the inability to do consecutive laps where I can actively learn as I go around. When I did an HPDE I was incrementally getting faster each lap of each session due to the repetitive action and constant input from my instructor. In Autocross you have time between each run and even if it`s only a few minutes, the learning process doesn`t happen as quickly as when you`re knocking off laps without stopping.

When I ran my GTI, I was with an instructor and doing 15~20 minute sessions. My brakes would be smoking when I pulled back into the pits/paddock. The pads held up OK, but they were a little glazed and I had to drive carefully for a few days afterwards to scuff them up again. Fun fact: The VW brake caliper paint isn`t very temperature tolerate. My calipers went from red to pink that day.

Fortunately My tires were on their last legs (but still safe) because I finished them off that day. They took a lot of abuse, and a new set of tires already on order before I ever left my house. I would have been a bit put out to have taken so much life off of my tires in one day. I knew they were going to wear, but I didn`t fully comprehend how much!

 

[Oneheadlite]

... My brakes would be smoking when I pulled back into the pits/paddock. The pads held up OK, but they were a little glazed and I had to drive carefully for a few days afterwards to scuff them up again.

Good opportunity for a Public Service Announcement - as someone who sees lots of cars after track days (our shop has done trackside support for club events + we have customers that do track days), remember to avoid sitting stationary with your foot on the brakes after completing a session. Even though you do a cool down lap, if you come off track and sit on the brakes in the paddock after a session (usually it happens when folks are reviewing the session with their instructor), the still very hot pads bond to the very hot rotors and now you end up with one heck of a vibration.

Fun fact: The VW brake caliper paint isn`t very temperature tolerate. My calipers went from red to pink that day.

It`s any of the caliper paints - I`ve seen Porsches where the rear calipers are brown from the PASM (or whatever the Porsche stability programming acronym is) working the rear calipers hard to make up for the open diff. We also had a highly modded GTR that just turned them all colors `cause very fast very heavy car.

 

[981 Cayman S]

Only 2~3 non-consecutive laps? That isn`t much. I`d probably still upgrade the brake fluid because you know the bug will bite you. You`ll be back.

I think that’s what they’re counting on with this tiny little slice of a ‘real’ 3-day HPDE event which this is a subset of. Kinda “Come out to the track, meet local PCA chapter, see what you’re missing”. Like the crack dealer on the corner who gives a newbie a free taste in hopes of addiction and future regular customer

The price was right and a day at the track no matter how limited is always fun. It’ll be nice to start slow with something for a change as opposed to going all-in immediately which is my usual process; oftentimes when it comes to hobbies my reach quickly exceeds my grasp in overly expensive ways


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[Lonnie]

...
Like Desertnate mentioned, high speed events definitely lead to more wear and tear on the car. Not uncommon to run brake pads rated for higher temperatures, and typically a set of rotors matched to them. Tire life can be as low as a weekend depending on what you`re running and how much track time you get, brakes are also a watch-them-wear item. I`ll also never forget the first event I ran at BIR in my E36 M3 - we ran the long course with the nearly 1 mile long straight. Short version car description - full suspension but stock engine/software/exhaust - even with unmodified drivetrain, during a one day event I spent about $150 dollars in fuel (and this was circa about 2005 fuel pricing).

Well I guess the above financial experience of autocrossing is as true as it is in other forms of motor-sport racing: "If you want to make a small fortune in autocrossing, you need to start with a very large one."

Hey, ALL hobbies have some expense associated with them; it is just how "much" it cost. Or as my oft-mentioned quote from my dad goes, "You wanna run with the big dogs, you gotta pay like the big dogs."
(We forgot: Captain Obvious is also Captain Cliche or Captain Idiot....I mean Captain Idiom.)

 

[Desertnate]

Good opportunity for a Public Service Announcement - as someone who sees lots of cars after track days (our shop has done trackside support for club events + we have customers that do track days), remember to avoid sitting stationary with your foot on the brakes after completing a session. Even though you do a cool down lap, if you come off track and sit on the brakes in the paddock after a session (usually it happens when folks are reviewing the session with their instructor), the still very hot pads bond to the very hot rotors and now you end up with one heck of a vibration.

I was told the parking brake was a big no-go for the same reasons. I almost forgot after one session and the instructor litterally smacked my hand away as I reached for the parking brake lever.

 

[Desertnate]

Well I guess the above financial experience of autocrossing is as true as it is in other forms of motor-sport racing: "If you want to make a small fortune in autocrossing, you need to start with a very large one."

Hey, ALL hobbies have some expense associated with them; it is just how "much" it cost. Or as my oft-mentioned quote from my dad goes, "You wanna run with the big dogs, you gotta pay like the big dogs."
(We forgot: Captain Obvious is also Captain Cliche or Captain Idiot....I mean Captain Idiom.)

HPDE`s will get very expensive fast due to high levels of wear-and-tear on "expendable" items like tires and brake components, more frequent fluid changes, etc. Also, mods to make a car better suited for high speed track duty is a nearly endless rabbit hole that ends up with the car totally stripped out, caged, and in some form of club racing spec.

Autocross by contrast is a really cheap form of motorsport. I sank exactly $0 into my car last year for autocross. I didn`t wear out any tires (thought it did accelerate wear quite a bit after a full season), fluids are just fine, and wear on my brakes was essentially un-noticeable. I also already had a proper helmet with a current certification, so I didn`t even have PPE costs. You can truly show up with a car in totally stock street form, compete, and then drive home no worse for wear. Competing in a full season will wear tires out quicker, but nothing excessive unless you`re in really heavy car like a Charger/Challenger, an EV like a Polestar or Tesla, or a F80 M3/M4.

Like you said, all hobbies are what you put into them. I`d like to be more competitive this season and not wear out my normal street tires, so I recently ordered a dedicated set of wheels/tires I`ll swap out for events. Other competitors will go much farther depending on the class they run; i.e. some are no longer road worthy. However, if you just wanted to show up to be social and have a few laughs while tossing your car around the course you could do it for only the price of an event registration.

 

[Oneheadlite]

HPDE`s will get very expensive fast due to high levels of wear-and-tear on "expendable" items like tires and brake components, more frequent fluid changes, etc. Also, mods to make a car better suited for high speed track duty is a nearly endless rabbit hole that ends up with the car totally stripped out, caged, and in some form of club racing spec.

Autocross by contrast is a really cheap form of motorsport. I sank exactly $0 into my car last year for autocross. I didn`t wear out any tires (thought it did accelerate wear quite a bit after a full season), fluids are just fine, and wear on my brakes was essentially un-noticeable. I also already had a proper helmet with a current certification, so I didn`t even have PPE costs. You can truly show up with a car in totally stock street form, compete, and then drive home no worse for wear. Competing in a full season will wear tires out quicker, but nothing excessive unless you`re in really heavy car like a Charger/Challenger, an EV like a Polestar or Tesla, or a F80 M3/M4.

Like you said, all hobbies are what you put into them. I`d like to be more competitive this season and not wear out my normal street tires, so I recently ordered a dedicated set of wheels/tires I`ll swap out for events. Other competitors will go much farther depending on the class they run; i.e. some are no longer road worthy. However, if you just wanted to show up to be social and have a few laughs while tossing your car around the course you could do it for only the price of an event registration.

Well said. I was gonna clarify the high speed event was where I spent all the money.

Autocross I spent a lot of time just running the class my car fell into after doing the modifications I wanted to do, versus the dedicated (read: competitive) folks would modify their car to the limit of what the rules would allow.

When I ran street tires, my summer tires became just-a-summer tires. When I switched to running sticky tires (at the time Kuhmo Victoracers or V710`s or something, it`s been a while!), those would last a couple/few seasons and my summer tire life greatly increased.

Still blows me away watching some of the guys running NASA/SCCA/Chumpcar/etc road racing stuff where they`re going through sets of tires per weekend to be competitive.