Backing Plate Repair

B

bad penny

Member
My RUPES polishers eat backing plates. I`m sure that I`m not alone here with this problem. Was wondering if anyone has found a adhesive that can be used to repair. Ive searched all of YouTube and found nothing which I find odd considering all the other garbage there concerning this trade.

Anyone have thoughts of suggestions?
 
Got tired of waiting on suggestions. Experiment #1 is in place.

Products used:

• Shoe Goo
• Piece of cardboard
• Popsicle stick (& Index finger)
• Vice

Will update tomorrow
 
You’re right, an hour and ten minutes is an eternity to wait for an answer on a forum (from your first post to your last), especially at that hour. :D

In all seriousness though, I’d be looking at your repeat backing plate failures as a symptom, not as your problem. Plenty of professional detailers are using these machines without having to feed them backing plates all the time.

Tell us more about your use. Is it both your 15mm and 21mm? What speed are you running them at? What pads are you using? How many pads are you using per step? How much downward pressure?

Any time I’ve read about backing plate failures, one of the issues could be prolonged running at too high of a speed. There’s huge accelerations taking place at the pad face on a long throw, and each time it changes direction that’s a lot of force acting on the Velcro. Any small movements there create friction —> heat —> plate (or pad) delamination.

What pads? If not Rupes pads, I’d wonder if the pad you’re using uses a slightly different hook and loop fastener. Again, leading to more movement between the pad and backing plate heating it up.

How many pads? Here too - if you’re using a pad for too long and it’s loading up with product, you’re increasing it’s weight and it’s resistance to changing direction all those times per cycle. Back to more heat, more failure. Are you also running into doming of your pads, where the center starts to cave in? That’s another sign of too much heat.

Just points to ponder.
 
Ive been using my 21 for years now and never had a failure with the velcro on the backing plate. I agree with Oneheadlite that the velcro failing may be a symptom of how youre running the machine.

How are you removing the pads? Are you simply grabbing them and ripping them off or are you more carefully peeling them off while holding the velcro to the backing plate? I always get my finger between the pad and backing plate and carefully remove the pad so I dont end up ripping the velcro off with it. I started noticing the very edges of the velcro were starting to lift from the edge of the backing plate a couple years ago and have been much more careful removing my pads. The problem has not gotten any worse since doing that.

As for what adhesive to use. I would probably start with something like contact cement, however ive never needed to try this so do so cautiously
 
Oneheadlite said:
You’re right, an hour and ten minutes is an eternity to wait for an answer on a forum (from your first post to your last), especially at that hour. :D

In all seriousness though, I’d be looking at your repeat backing plate failures as a symptom, not as your problem. Plenty of professional detailers are using these machines without having to feed them backing plates all the time.

Tell us more about your use. Is it both your 15mm and 21mm? What speed are you running them at? What pads are you using? How many pads are you using per step? How much downward pressure?

Any time I’ve read about backing plate failures, one of the issues could be prolonged running at too high of a speed. There’s huge accelerations taking place at the pad face on a long throw, and each time it changes direction that’s a lot of force acting on the Velcro. Any small movements there create friction —> heat —> plate (or pad) delamination.

What pads? If not Rupes pads, I’d wonder if the pad you’re using uses a slightly different hook and loop fastener. Again, leading to more movement between the pad and backing plate heating it up.

How many pads? Here too - if you’re using a pad for too long and it’s loading up with product, you’re increasing it’s weight and it’s resistance to changing direction all those times per cycle. Back to more heat, more failure. Are you also running into doming of your pads, where the center starts to cave in? That’s another sign of too much heat.

Just points to ponder.
Click to expand...

Yes. Patience isn`t my strong suit.

I have two 21`s and one 15. I use just enough pressure to keep the plate from stalling. All of my machines are 1st generation (weak) which means they pretty much stay on speed 6.
I rarely go over 1 hour polishing without giving myself a 5 or 10 minute break (enough time to cool off I would think). During that time I`ve switched pads at least 4 times.
I typically use 4-6 pads for every step on each vehicle. When switching pads I have a habit of just yanking them off.
I understand (and take full responsibility) that this is more then likely the primary reason for me having this problem.
I use lots of different pads. I don`t think for one second that has anything to do with it.

Thanks for the advice!

ShaneB said:
Ive been using my 21 for years now and never had a failure with the velcro on the backing plate. I agree with Oneheadlite that the velcro failing may be a symptom of how youre running the machine.

How are you removing the pads? Are you simply grabbing them and ripping them off or are you more carefully peeling them off while holding the velcro to the backing plate? I always get my finger between the pad and backing plate and carefully remove the pad so I dont end up ripping the velcro off with it. I started noticing the very edges of the velcro were starting to lift from the edge of the backing plate a couple years ago and have been much more careful removing my pads. The problem has not gotten any worse since doing that.

As for what adhesive to use. I would probably start with something like contact cement, however ive never needed to try this so do so cautiously
Click to expand...

Thank you. I ended up going with shoe goo.
So far as the man that jumped from the skyscraper said to the other man sitting on his patio @ the 21st floor, so far so good!!!
 
bad penny said:
Yes. Patience isn`t my strong suit.,,,When switching pads I have a habit of just yanking them off.
I understand (and take full responsibility) that this is more then likely the primary reason for me having this problem...
Click to expand...

Heh heh, I guess I oughta just spare you my predictable comments about the above :o..

[EDIT: So OK, I *will* spare you ;)]

Hope the Shoe Goo solves the problem. I`ve never done much of anything with my one Rupes (oughta just sell/trade it..), but I run my others at top speed all the time, and while some here have chided me for that it`s never been a problem. I figure they wouldn`t make `em with Speed 6 unless it were OK to use that setting.
 
I partially melted (center of BP) while overusing a Meg`s MF pad - used it for about 10 minutes without a break (polish, brush, polish). Not sure if that is the issue you are having. But overheating the pads could be part of the problem.

If I am using MF pads, I rotate 2 pads and swap after every section. It does not take much extra time, as you have to stop and clean them after each section anyway.
 
I question what type of pads, but it sounds like heat is the culprit, as others have said. OP, have you looked into upgrading the backing plate to a more efficient one, in hopes of running the machine at a lower speed equaling less heat? How long have you had your polishers, maybe they are due for a grease upgrade?
 
Accumulator said:
Heh heh, I guess I oughta just spare you my predictable comments about the above :o..

[EDIT: So OK, I *will* spare you ;)]

Hope the Shoe Goo solves the problem. I`ve never done much of anything with my one Rupes (oughta just sell/trade it..), but I run my others at top speed all the time, and while some here have chided me for that it`s never been a problem. I figure they wouldn`t make `em with Speed 6 unless it were OK to use that setting.
Click to expand...

Aren`t you a fan of the 3401? If so I might have a trade for you.

It`s only been 1 day, but Shoe Goo seems to work great if you ever need to repair a backing plate.
 
mc2hill said:
I partially melted (center of BP) while overusing a Meg`s MF pad - used it for about 10 minutes without a break (polish, brush, polish). Not sure if that is the issue you are having. But overheating the pads could be part of the problem.

If I am using MF pads, I rotate 2 pads and swap after every section. It does not take much extra time, as you have to stop and clean them after each section anyway.
Click to expand...

What polisher are you using?
After only 10 minutes of use I would be wanting my money back.
 
TheMeanGreen said:
I question what type of pads, but it sounds like heat is the culprit, as others have said. OP, have you looked into upgrading the backing plate to a more efficient one, in hopes of running the machine at a lower speed equaling less heat? How long have you had your polishers, maybe they are due for a grease upgrade?
Click to expand...

The machine I`m speaking of is 7 years old. I can almost guarantee you it needs new grease.
It`s a first generation RUPES, so there`s really no option but to run at full speed if your trying to do something.

What aftermarket backing plate would you recommend?
 
bad penny said:
The machine I`m speaking of is 7 years old. I can almost guarantee you it needs new grease.
It`s a first generation RUPES, so there`s really no option but to run at full speed if your trying to do something.

What aftermarket backing plate would you recommend?
Click to expand...


Shine Supply/ Excel Evolution 5” Backing Plate, grease replacement, and new brushes. If that isn’t enough, working on technique, and if that still isn’t enough (the MKI’s don’t have a reputation for being all that powerful) then a pad upgrade or polisher upgrade may be in order.

Question: Have you tried stepping up your cutting fluid and pad combo in order to decrease machine speed?

Side Note: If I am given the chance to completely reset my pad inventory, I’d go with Lake Country HDO foam pads and their Foamed Interface and Extra Cut Lambswool pads. They rotate like nothing else I’ve ever used. These pads are over the Griots BOSS Foam Pads which are pretty good. The caveat is that the listed LC pads are pricey...
I see that you are using microfiber pads, personal experience has shown me that microfiber pads consistently run higher temps than the equivalent foam pad due to increase in friction between the pad and surface, no matter the polish or supplemental wetting agent. Unfortunately, given the correct conditions, we can heat cycle the adhesive of our backing plates with the upper bounds of temperature getting close to the temperature in which the adhesive becomes pliable, thus degrading our backing plates to the point of Velcro delaminating from the face of the backing plate.
 
TheMeanGreen said:
Side Note: If I am given the chance to completely reset my pad inventory, I’d go with Lake Country HDO foam pads and their Foamed Interface and Extra Cut Lambswool pads. They rotate like nothing else I’ve ever used. These pads are over the Griots BOSS Foam Pads which are pretty good. The caveat is that the listed LC pads are pricey...
Click to expand...


Are these good for a short-stroke machine, too? Or are they overkill for that?
 
Setec Astronomy said:
Are these good for a short-stroke machine, too? Or are they overkill for that?
Click to expand...

Slapping the Foamed Interface Whool Pad on an 8mm machine is a dream. The rest of the HDO foam pads slightly out perform the BOSS pads on a short throw for big area use, they really shine in situations where one would need the foamed interface flex pad from Griot’s. As well, the HDO pads have the finishing ability of the LC CCS pads but with better cut, better heat management, and durability. I personally do not think they are overkill for an 8mm.
 
bad penny said:
Aren`t you a fan of the 3401? If so I might have a trade for you..
Click to expand...


"Yes!" on Fan of Flex 3401, but I already have the only one I need (might never even need that unless I buy another new-to-me car). With any luck, my days of significant correction are behind me, and that`s all I use the Flex 3401 for as my others finish much better.

The extra time it takes to remove the pad delicately I can spend making money. When the bp starts to crap out I can Show Goo-it back together in 5 minutes.

Who`s the dummy now...
Click to expand...
I won`t answer that Q since the time it takes to remove a pad properly is incalculably brief and of zero monetary value compared to the time/hassle/product/etc. involved in doing repairs to the plate ;)

After only 10 minutes of use I would be wanting my money back.
Click to expand...

But don`t you pause long enough for the pads to cool off after *MUCH LESS* use because you stop to clean the pads out? I spend *FAR* more time cleaning/swapping pads and inspecting that I actually spend polishing, not even a close comparison.

The machine I`m speaking of is 7 years old. I can almost guarantee you it needs new grease.
It`s a first generation RUPES, so there`s really no option but to run at full speed if your trying to do something.
Click to expand...

Do the Rupes need more attention with regard to the grease/etc.? Just wondering since I`ve just never had to even think about that even when polishers were being used all day/all week by employees who didn`t care about `em.
 
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