Most aggressive compound...

[DaveT435]

I just picked up some rupes wool coarse and medium pads. I have not used them yet but was impressed with what I saw they cut and how they finished out. Before you proceeded I suggest putting a meter on the paint. Sounds more like and excavation than a detail and I don’t want you left holding a big bill instead of getting paid for your hard work.

I have measured the paint. Being a respray I still have no idea how much clear I have to work with. I already ordered the new Rupes coarse wool pads. I have to agree, it`s definitely an aggressive looking pad. I also got some CarPro Flash pads that I had some luck with, I want to pair it with a more aggressive compound and hopefully that will do it. I actually had the guy come and pick up the car and give me some time to research and order products to get it taken care of.

I have some menz 300 and 400 I can send if you want to try it out.

I appreciate the offer. I have used the 300 and 400. I think the Scholl`s or M100 will have more cut.

 

[JSFM35X]

Do you have a flex? I use mine when I need to cut, and I am not proficient with a rotary so I don`t use it.

On regular stuff my rupes is my go to, on heavy cut stuff (my heavy cut is nothing this what your describing) I go to the flex. Especially for bad headlight and glass work.

I have measured the paint. Being a respray I still have no idea how much clear I have to work with. I already ordered the new Rupes coarse wool pads. I have to agree, it`s definitely an aggressive looking pad. I also got some CarPro Flash pads that I had some luck with, I want to pair it with a more aggressive compound and hopefully that will do it. I actually had the guy come and pick up the car and give me some time to research and order products to get it taken care of.




I appreciate the offer. I have used the 300 and 400. I think the Scholl`s or M100 will have more cut.

 

[Stokdgs]

I have used Meguiars 105 and Lake Country Purple Foam Wool pads (5" - 6") on harder than anything in the world - Urethane Airplane Paint - and with a lot of work, was able to bring it back to life, and finish it off to beautiful clarity and gloss with Meguiars 205 and white foam pads...

Once I had to take some really bad scratches out of a Black Lexus with Lexus paint and used the same combo above and it came out beautifully and removed all the defects..

In my experience in Auto Painting, we always put way more paint on the car, panel, etc., because after, we wet block sand it, and then use heavy duty 3m compound and polish to bring it back..

If this was a repaint, there is probably a lot of it on there.. When you compared the roof (stock Lexus paint) to the rest of the car that was repainted, how much bigger in microns was that number ?
Dan F

 

[Vanquish]

No problem. The Scholl’s might be your best bet. I’ve only used their finishing products. But I did like it. Good luck

 

[RaydiantDetail]

I have some Shine Supply Flat Top that I can send you if you would like to give it a try as well. I think I have 8oz left. https://shinesupply.com/products/flat-top

Hopefully the Scholl S02 works for you. I know they also have Scholl S0 which is basically what they call "liquid sandpaper" and is their heaviest cutting compound. If you need to get that much more aggressive maybe its better to wetsand with 5K as Mike mentioned.

 

[Rsurfer]

If this was a repaint, there is probably a lot of it on there.. When you compared the roof (stock Lexus paint) to the rest of the car that was repainted, how much bigger in microns was that number ?
Dan F

Good point Dan.. if it shows enough clear then I would wet sand with the 4000 grit.

 

[Accumulator]

Keep in mind that the clear shouldn`t be thinned too much; it`s *totally* different from the oft-expressed concern about actually "going through".

IME once you get finer than 3K the sanding marks get a lot easier to correct.

IMO wool is generally safer (less heat), more effective *for some things*, but won`t really finish out OK even with the ultra-soft ones.

And similarly, IMO it`s sometimes safer to wetsand *especially by hand* because of the great control over every abrasive contact with the paint and the way the sanding medium doesn`t conform to the, uhm...texture...of the paint as much as foam/wool but rather cuts straight across the high points. (If somebody thinks that`s wrong please post something.) I sometimes think people oughta do more wetsanding and less extreme compounding, but I guess it`d just be a different can of worms and another skill to get dialed-in on, and there seems to be a tendency for people to overdo it.

 

[SWETM]

I think that Scholl S2 is up there in the highest cutting compounds. Still wondering why not Scholl S1 Black SS is offered outside of the Scandinavia. The thought I have about it is that it`s on trial if they want to offer it to the masses and not only to the pros. Scholl S2 Black SS claims to have 25-30% more cut than the S3 Gold XXL compound. And ad to that S1 Black SS has even more cut than the S2. Seen some pretty impresive work from them who work on hard BMW and VW paints with the S1. They says it has to much cut on some of those paints and has to step down to S2. And they use mkII 21mm polisher with foam wool pad.

The S0 matting compound is liquid sandpaper and is not made for be used with a polisher. It`s to get a controled sanding with a foam applicator sponge. And has no deminishing abrasive and high cut so the finish leaves you at about p1000 sandmarks.

I have used it once and the paint I used it on was single stage paint that the pigment was faded on. So not a fair test but have to test it some more on clearcoats that has deep defects. It`s Tac System Refinish Ultra that claims to get p600 sanding marks out. It did impressed me that it left a great finish to have that kind of cut and was on par with fg400. They have Tac System Refinish 1 compound too that also claims to get p600 sanding marks out but with non deminishing abrasives instead.

Hope you find a setup combo that solves your problem.

 

[Accumulator]

SWETM- Noting that I never really believe "cut ratings", those are still awfully impressive. Not that I think that *I* would ever go that route.

 

[SWETM]

SWETM- Noting that I never really believe "cut ratings", those are still awfully impressive. Not that I think that *I* would ever go that route.

Yeah I don`t believe them either. So much variables to take in with what polisher and pad and technique and so on. They could give you some guidelines as how aggressive those is with claimed cutting ability to remove sanding marks. But even if it`s capable of removing p1000 it`s impresive cut. What got me interested was that it would finish down to a p12000 sanding marks. And that I think was impresive was how it finished down and the quick working time. It`s much alike carpro clear cut and the short working time with fully broken down abrasive with 4-5 passes per sections and move on. The Tac System Refinish Ultra has a new kind of abrasive technology with the aluminum oxide in an other form than useally used in abrasive polish and compound. That would be cutting better and broken down to finer particals so the finish gets nicer too. Tac System is a well known manufactures to other brands before they decided to release their own detailing products line. As one product that I have heard about is they manufactured the first carpro reload version. And then they went with their own line of products and left carpro to do their second version on it`s own. That is well known how that went LOL. Tac System Quartz Max is much like the first version of reload that I understand is much liked.

If I think I have right Würth polishes is a rebrand of Scholl polishes if any have easier to get those instead. Think they have the spiderpads too. Spiderpads is a great polishing pads. 3D uses that kind of build in some of their pads. Scholl spiderpad has awesome durability.

 

[Accumulator]

SWETM- Huh, that`s interesting info...and to think I`ve never heard of `em!

 

[Stokdgs]

Good point Dan.. if it shows enough clear then I would wet sand with the 4000 grit.

Rsurfer -
How you been ? Hope all is going good for you !
Yes ! I would also vote for sanding it (lightly with a block by hand), at the highest grit possible..

You know, back long ago when I was working in an Auto Paint Shop, we color sanded after painting, with nothing but 3M 600 grit wet or dry paper, a rubber block and a water hose with the metal end cut off..
I never used a machine to sand paint, I wanted to "feel" the drag of the wet paper with water running over it, across the panel, and keep that same amount of "light downward pressure" the same all the way to the end of the sanding stroke, and then backwards..

The idea taught to me was to take off as little as possible, and make the paint - flat - and with as little amount of scratches on the paint as possible, so that the scratch correction (compounding) will be easier..

And somehow, we were able to use wool and wool blend pads on a Rotary, and get all these 600 grit sanding marks off and leave a clear, glossy, flat, no swirls, etc., finish..

I don`t even believe that 3k, 4k, and 5k grit paper was even invented yet... I never saw it in the shop.. Perhaps the Owner didn`t believe in extra expense, etc.. ?
Dan F

 

[Accumulator]

Stokdgs- Heh heh, reading that, and nodding my head in recognition, I realized that we`re dating ourselves with some of those references again

But yeah, I too like the feel/control/etc. of doing it by hand. And hey, back in the days of ss even *I* could finish out OK with a rotary and those nasty pads we used back then

The only finer papers I knew from were, IIRC, marketed for polishing plastics. The same little foam pads you can get today as best I can remember/tell. But yeah I remember rubbing 600 sheets together to make `em milder...did that with a lot of sandpaper actually.

 

[jrock645]

I used Cut+ on a rotary with wool on it. It gave some cut, not fast but it was cutting. I don`t know how much clear I have left so I`m hoping for a little more controlled cut if that makes any sense to you. I want to remove the sanding scratches and nothing past that. I ordered the Scholl`s S02. I think that should do it. I`ve got the 3D purple foam heavy cutting pads which I believe are made by Scholl`s so I`m hoping that along with everything else I`ve ordered for this car will take care of it. I got some 4000 grit discs as a last resort.

No i mean the 501, not the HD stuff. The 3D cuts so much more.

 

[DaveT435]

If this was a repaint, there is probably a lot of it on there.. When you compared the roof (stock Lexus paint) to the rest of the car that was repainted, how much bigger in microns was that number ?
Dan F

The optimum words here being "should be" nothing about this car has been like it should be lol the roof was 5.5 mils and the rest was around 8. What really surprised me was the consistency of the readings. Normally on a repaint you`re going to sand some areas more because of scratches, etc. even the sanding process itself should remove inconsistent amounts of paint. You sand with around 180-220 grit correct??

I have some Shine Supply Flat Top that I can send you if you would like to give it a try as well. I think I have 8oz left. https://shinesupply.com/products/flat-top

Hopefully the Scholl S02 works for you. I know they also have Scholl S0 which is basically what they call "liquid sandpaper" and is their heaviest cutting compound. If you need to get that much more aggressive maybe its better to wetsand with 5K as Mike mentioned.

I`m covering all my bases. I know what process I want to use. I`ve got the Mirka Abralon discs in 3000 and 4000 if I need them. I don`t know if the Flat Top would be any more aggressive than the Scholl`s. I wish they sold it in a smaller bottle. Really don`t want to spend another 75.00. I ordered CarPro Clear Cut as well.

At this point I think I have everything I could possibly need. I talked to the owner yesterday. I have surgery coming up on Thursday so he opted to wait until I`m healed up to drop it off with me. Fortunately he has a couple cars so there won`t be any rush.

Yeah I don`t believe them either. So much variables to take in with what polisher and pad and technique and so on. They could give you some guidelines as how aggressive those is with claimed cutting ability to remove sanding marks. But even if it`s capable of removing p1000 it`s impresive cut. What got me interested was that it would finish down to a p12000 sanding marks. And that I think was impresive was how it finished down and the quick working time. It`s much alike carpro clear cut and the short working time with fully broken down abrasive with 4-5 passes per sections and move on. The Tac System Refinish Ultra has a new kind of abrasive technology with the aluminum oxide in an other form than useally used in abrasive polish and compound. That would be cutting better and broken down to finer particals so the finish gets nicer too. Tac System is a well known manufactures to other brands before they decided to release their own detailing products line. As one product that I have heard about is they manufactured the first carpro reload version. And then they went with their own line of products and left carpro to do their second version on it`s own. That is well known how that went LOL. Tac System Quartz Max is much like the first version of reload that I understand is much liked.

If I think I have right Würth polishes is a rebrand of Scholl polishes if any have easier to get those instead. Think they have the spiderpads too. Spiderpads is a great polishing pads. 3D uses that kind of build in some of their pads. Scholl spiderpad has awesome durability.

CarPros sell the spider pads here. I may have to check them out. I did order a few of the 3D purple cutting pads. I may have to give the Spide pads a shot.

I would like to thank everyone for their input and the generous offers to send me product. As mentioned I think I have everything I will need now. It will be a few weeks but I`ll try to let y`all know how things turn out.

 

[Stokdgs]

DaveT435 -- I hope all goes well with your Surgery this week --

Wow ! 5.5mil = 139.7 microns total thickness - Top
8.0 mil = 203.2 microns total thickness - Rest of vehicle

What I did as a Painter in that field was this --
* Get the vehicle back from the Body shop, with all "repaired areas" filled, and the areas around the repair and the repair itself was scratched to heck with 40-grit paper, files, grinders, etc., because that is how most body men work.. Its a mess..

* I clean it all up with prep-sol, etc., take an air powered D/A sander with some 280 and 360 grit on the pad and smooth out all the scratches as much as possible, blow it all off, clean again.
* Use the DA to feather edge all the painted areas around the repair, so that they are all flat, and exposing all the layers underneath them just right.. Everything needs to be as flat as possible..
* Take the Primer gun, and lay down several coats of primer to completely cover all the area and beyond..
* Take a can of flat black or white lacquer and spray a mist all over the primered areas..
* Use this misted layer as a "guide coat" and a 3m Block and 360 grit wet or dry paper and water, and block sand the entire area so its all scratch-free and flat..
* Tape off the areas around the repair and lay down several coats of paint, last coats adding more clear, last coats more wet so they flash and flow out flat..
* When dry, mist a coat of flat black lacquer on the paint, block wet sand with 600 grit to get it flat again, and try to not embed scratches into the work..
* Compound the area and beyond to include full panels, so it all matches in gloss, and add some meguiars glaze and or wax to protect at the end, after washing the entire vehicle inside and out..
* Inspect the work several times with different eyes, if perfect, deliver to Client..

So, to answer your question, yes, everything from the first work after the repair is to remove repair scratches, get everything flat, then primer it, then block sand it flat, then paint, then block sand it flat, then compound it..
To have consistent total thickness numbers around the car is pretty darn good ! Must have been the Painter with gray hair..
Dan F

 

[pdqgp]

I`m looking for the most aggressive compound I can find. From my research it seems to be Scholl`s S0. Has anyone used this to verify it`s as aggressive as the description leads me to believe? Referred to as liquid sand paper. I looked at Meg`s 101, but I`ve tried several of the normal aggressive compounds including Griot`s FCC, Rupes Blue, CarPro`s Clear Cut. Long story, this paint is a nightmare. I don`t want to use wool and a rotary on it anymore.

Late to the thread, but I would suggest CarPro Clear Cut and Purple Wool on a Flex 3401. Use MF on a regular DA. Cuts better than M101 or M105 and finishes out beautifully. A light polish after is all you`ll need.

Here is what the paint on this vehicle was like when I started:

After only 3 Passes with the above mentioned:

 

[DaveT435]

Late to the thread, but I would suggest CarPro Clear Cut and Purple Wool on a Flex 3401. Use MF on a regular DA. Cuts better than M101 or M105 and finishes out beautifully. A light polish after is all you`ll need.

Here is what the paint on this vehicle was like when I started:
After only 3 Passes with the above mentioned:

I`ve got everything you mentioned except the 3401. I have a Mille. I think I have all bases covered.
Thank you

Is that an Audi?

 

[Rsurfer]

Late to the thread, but I would suggest CarPro Clear Cut and Purple Wool on a Flex 3401. Use MF on a regular DA. Cuts better than M101 or M105 and finishes out beautifully. A light polish after is all you`ll need.

Here is what the paint on this vehicle was like when I started:

After only 3 Passes with the above mentioned:

B)

 

[DaveT435]

DaveT435 -- I hope all goes well with your Surgery this week --

Wow ! 5.5mil = 139.7 microns total thickness - Top
8.0 mil = 203.2 microns total thickness - Rest of vehicle

What I did as a Painter in that field was this --
* Get the vehicle back from the Body shop, with all "repaired areas" filled, and the areas around the repair and the repair itself was scratched to heck with 40-grit paper, files, grinders, etc., because that is how most body men work.. Its a mess..

* I clean it all up with prep-sol, etc., take an air powered D/A sander with some 280 and 360 grit on the pad and smooth out all the scratches as much as possible, blow it all off, clean again.
* Use the DA to feather edge all the painted areas around the repair, so that they are all flat, and exposing all the layers underneath them just right.. Everything needs to be as flat as possible..
* Take the Primer gun, and lay down several coats of primer to completely cover all the area and beyond..
* Take a can of flat black or white lacquer and spray a mist all over the primered areas..
* Use this misted layer as a "guide coat" and a 3m Block and 360 grit wet or dry paper and water, and block sand the entire area so its all scratch-free and flat..
* Tape off the areas around the repair and lay down several coats of paint, last coats adding more clear, last coats more wet so they flash and flow out flat..
* When dry, mist a coat of flat black lacquer on the paint, block wet sand with 600 grit to get it flat again, and try to not embed scratches into the work..
* Compound the area and beyond to include full panels, so it all matches in gloss, and add some meguiars glaze and or wax to protect at the end, after washing the entire vehicle inside and out..
* Inspect the work several times with different eyes, if perfect, deliver to Client..

So, to answer your question, yes, everything from the first work after the repair is to remove repair scratches, get everything flat, then primer it, then block sand it flat, then paint, then block sand it flat, then compound it..
To have consistent total thickness numbers around the car is pretty darn good ! Must have been the Painter with gray hair..
Dan F

Hey Dan,
I typed out a reply once, guess I never hit post lol Great timing for your post as I`m going to start doing a little painting. I had auto body in high school and went through the entire process on my car. Actually laid down a really nice coat if Gray Metallic paint. Of course back then it was SS.

I got my base coat/CC gun, inline regulator water air trap, gun regulator, I still need a primer gun. My first project is the front part if a `72 bug. Under the trunk behind the front bumper. If it turns out good I`m sure I`ll paint the whole car. Then if that turns out good I`ll probably be doing his daughter`s car.

Just reading your post was a good refresher. Since this is your area of expertise do you mind me asking you questions as they come up??