cant get rid of holograms

G

Guitarmageddon

New member
**posted initially in the machine polishing forum but think it was the wrong place, mod feel free to move, sorry**

So I have a 2016 black jetta. I have put off my initial purchase detail for over a year....but now I`m ready. I attempted last summer and got super frustrated, so I gave up. I did some `test runs` with the product I had left over this past weekend, and Im thinking Im seeing the same results.


I did all the proper prep - 2 bucket wash, clay, wash etc, but I could NOT get the holos out of the paint. Now here is a disclaimer, and maybe some can answer from experience, the product I was using had been sitting in a Virginia garage for two plus years...think its bum at this point?

Heres what I had left from my old batch *cough 2013 cough*: Menzerna s1500, sf4000, sf4500, fg400 (theyre all called something different now but autogeek still references the old names), and also sonax perfect finish. As far as pads, I had the "uber" brand from detailers domain from microfiber, to med cut, to polish, to finishing. I also attempted lake country pads on my go-round last summer.

...and still holograms! I used fg400 and s1500 on my audi s4 two years in a row and it was BEAUTIFUL, never seen a holo in my life. What the hell am I doing wrong? My machine is a griots DA with a few different sized backing plates. I have taken a gamble and figured my old polish batch may be on the fritz due to not storing right, so I have some new Menzerna SF 3500, Medium Cut 2500, and menzerna heavy cut on the way. I think these should be MORE than enough.... What is inducing the holos? Is it too MUCH pressure on a too aggressive pad? Should I rely more on finishing polish and light pressure/fast passes once I compound, and NOT expect to see too serious of a result after initial compound?

I`m getting disheartened and not sure the solution. Ive detailed other cars, and my old audi, and never would conclude its my technique. But hey who knows. any help is greatly appreciated.
 
Need to see picture`s, if you`re using a DA your not getting holograms your getting haze, though. If you are getting haze you are either using too aggressive of a pad, polish, both or simply not breaking down the polish (By not allowing it the working time it needs, Menz is a DAT).
 
The Driver said:
Need to see picture`s, if you`re using a DA your not getting holograms your getting haze, though. If you are getting haze you are either using too aggressive of a pad, polish, both or simply not breaking down the polish (By not allowing it the working time it needs, Menz is a DAT).
Click to expand...

Never heard it called haze before. Whats DAT? how many passes you think? Given it doesnt dust out and dry up, and remains workable, 6 passes?

ill post some pics tonight
 
Usually the holograms come with rotary polishers, but what you could be seeing is the oils left over from the polishing stage. Try using an IPA or Eraser to remove all oils after polishing to see if it makes a difference.
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
Usually the holograms come with rotary polishers, but what you could be seeing is the oils left over from the polishing stage. Try using an IPA or Eraser to remove all oils after polishing to see if it makes a difference.
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I`m using menzerna control cleaner to wipe each time. I will get some pics as soon as I get home today .
 
Oddly, enough I`ve had good results removing holograms with a soft pad on a DA and Megs Ultimate Polish.
You might wish to give this combo a try.
 
Merlin said:
Oddly, enough I`ve had good results removing holograms with a soft pad on a DA and Megs Ultimate Polish.
You might wish to give this combo a try.
Click to expand...

Is a Rupes Yellow Polishing Pad sufficient or is that too harsh?

If so, is a Rupes White Finishing Pad or CarPro Gloss Pad a better choice?
 
Merlin said:
Oddly, enough I`ve had good results removing holograms with a soft pad on a DA and Megs Ultimate Polish.
You might wish to give this combo a try.
Click to expand...

This is a great idea, and cost effective, and you can just go down to the store and get Megs UP. Oily and easy to work with.
 
I`ve had holograms that were *incredibly* hard to correct even though "they`re just shallow scratches" (scare-quotes intentional).

IMO using Menzerna might not be the best approach since the oils in it can *really* hide such stuff IME. I utterly *DESPISE* oily products for hologram removal, and that includes stuff like M205 (never tried their Ultimate Polish).

I`ve had to get incredibly aggressive to fix holograms..I know it "shouldn`t be that way" (again,scare-quotes intentional) but that`s how it worked out. Could`ve saved myself some irritation and many hours (at the expense of clear had it *not* been necessary) by just getting aggressive from the jump.

Oh, and having the right lighting is critical. Doing it via sunlight can be a big hassle (my wife and I spent hours over the course of serveral day doing the Yukon XLD that way for this exact issue).
 
Accumulator said:
...
... my wife and I spent hours over the course of serveral day doing the Yukon XLD that way for this exact issue.
Click to expand...

I remember you telling that story and I still remember a quote you made.... Someone mentioned that it was amazing that your wife helped you to that extent, and you said you had one of those "if it`s important to one of us, it`s important to both" relationships. Awesome.

Back on topic, to the OP, if you`re having issues correcting the holograms to the point where you want to take a break, you could use Poorboy`s World Black Hole, then your favorite LSP. Black Hole with either hide or greatly reduce the holograms for weeks, until you come up with your game plan. Black Hole is a good mild cleaner and decent pre-wax product regardless of it`s intended purpose, so it`s good to have.
 
Accumulator said:
I`ve had holograms that were *incredibly* hard to correct even though "they`re just shallow scratches" (scare-quotes intentional).

IMO using Menzerna might not be the best approach since the oils in it can *really* hide such stuff IME. I utterly *DESPISE* oily products for hologram removal, and that includes stuff like M205 (never tried their Ultimate Polish).

I`ve had to get incredibly aggressive to fix holograms..I know it "shouldn`t be that way" (again,scare-quotes intentional) but that`s how it worked out. Could`ve saved myself some irritation and many hours (at the expense of clear had it *not* been necessary) by just getting aggressive from the jump.

Oh, and having the right lighting is critical. Doing it via sunlight can be a big hassle (my wife and I spent hours over the course of several day doing the Yukon XLD that way for this exact issue).
Click to expand...

Ya` never know...it could be hard paint...it could be soft paint. Test a few things to find the least aggressive product that solves your issue.
What`s my favorite compound and polish? The least aggressive product, that gets the job done, on the paint that I am currently working on.
Side Note: As far as lighting...I`ve become a big fan of the SCANGRIP Multimatch and SCANGRIP Sunmatch. I even use the Multimatch by hand.
 
OK so I got a quick vid. ````ty quality. The area outside my test spot is obviously nasty dirty, but you can see the difference. are the "holograms" i think im seeing actually just swirls Im not getting out? I feel like the effort and combonations I have put in must be ME causing the damage. But I reallllly dont think its my technique. Not sure. Thoughts? When some of you say "more agressive" should I be using the maximum pad, with my fg400, and speed of 6 with most pressure? Again, I have this weekend marked off for detailing and I have already bought the supplies I wanted to use so i really want to make due with what I have.

Im starting the camera on the right side of the hood/tape line. Then I move to the unpolished side. Not much of a difference....
 
I`ve never seen a DA cause those sort of holograms...

Are you wiping off the polish after each section or letting it dry before removing it?
What MF towels are you using?
How often are you a) cleaning your pad on the fly and b) swapping it out for a fresh one?
 
I used a fresh pad for each of the test combos I ran. So those results are produced on new pads both uber and LC pads. I am first wiping with a brand new micro and then doing a wipe with control cleaner, straight lines no circle wipes. What could this be? Is it just that I`m not giving enough time for initial compounding?
 
I figure I`ll go through the full prep process as planned Saturday morning and see if I can make the hood work. If not....I`m lost here. Does autogeek take returns? Hah

If my paint was THAT soft that anything I do caused holograms, wouldn`t I see paint transfer ? I`m getting none
 
Guitarmageddon- I`m not on a good PC for watching videos at present, but IMO if those are holograms they`re really awful ones!

As I alluded to previously, holograms are just another type of marring/scratches, so you just have to polish them out like any other scratch. I`d quit thinking of them as "holograms" as I suspect that`s somehow influencing your work, but that`s just me.

I`d pick one small area for a test-spot and work that until it looks OK. See what it`s gonna take. I don`t know from Menzerna products (only used a variety of the 106) but if you`re working some area about...oh, I dunno...6" x 6" maybe (though *I* would work a smaller area if I were having issues), that oughta be managable, sooner or later it oughta be OK unless you`re somehow doing it awfully wrong. Maybe it`ll take *all day* to get that one area OK...let it.
 
Guitarmageddon said:
OK so I got a quick vid. ````ty quality. The area outside my test spot is obviously nasty dirty, but you can see the difference. are the "holograms" i think im seeing actually just swirls Im not getting out? I feel like the effort and combonations I have put in must be ME causing the damage. But I reallllly dont think its my technique. Not sure. Thoughts? When some of you say "more agressive" should I be using the maximum pad, with my fg400, and speed of 6 with most pressure? Again, I have this weekend marked off for detailing and I have already bought the supplies I wanted to use so i really want to make due with what I have.

Im starting the camera on the right side of the hood/tape line. Then I move to the unpolished side. Not much of a difference....
Click to expand...


This is really strange.

you do not need to cut more paint to get rid of the holograms, You just need to refine the finish.

what pad exactly are you using for the cutting step and what speed and pressure?

if your using fg400 and a heavy cutting pad. Use sf4000 a polishing pad and a very light light arm pressure (just the weight of the machine) try a polishing pad, then a finishing pad. i would say speed 2-3 on your Griots machine.
 
Joe Metlow said:
This is really strange.

you do not need to cut more paint to get rid of the holograms, You just need to refine the finish.

what pad exactly are you using for the cutting step and what speed and pressure?

if your using fg400 and a heavy cutting pad. Use sf4000 a polishing pad and a very light light arm pressure (just the weight of the machine) try a polishing pad, then a finishing pad. i would say speed 2-3 on your Griots machine.
Click to expand...

OK I appreciate the input. If you have some free time in the morning, I plan on updating my results as I go. So its not a matter of cutting down more, its finishing it off? I have medium cut polish and super finish, as well as a few finishing pads. When you would be finish polishing, the consensus is light pressure and slow arm movement? Higher speed?

I guess I was used to my couple cars before where doing one pass with FG400 and medium cut pads looked like show quality stuff compared to what Im getting now.
 
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