Minimum Wage

Swanicyouth said:
Not sure I would call places like this a democracy. Dont they have a queen? If you recall, we fought a war like 200 and some years ago to get away from Kings/Queens and unfair taxes. Our system may be broke - but this isnt the answer for America.
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Are you saying the UK is not a democracy because they have a queen?

If you believe this in wikipedia from the Economist magazine we score below Denmark and other countries in their score of democracies. Do you think the Uk, Germany, Australia, etc to be democracies? The fact we have two well disliked candidates (Trump and Clinton) leading each party show the system is not right. We are not getting good choices. The dem party has all those unaffiliated candidates so Bernie really did not have a chance since they are going to go with Clinton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

We are getting further behind than other countries in many areas and our arrogance is part of the blame. Low government spending has worked so well for states like Mississippi - not.

Some people like the social system - well a lot of the world. Singapore is supposedly a leader in business friendliness but they have quite a soclalistic system. It costs a min $50k to own a car that we pay $20k - low taxes?.well depends.
 
Bunky said:
Are you saying the UK is not a democracy because they have a queen?

If you believe this in wikipedia from the Economist magazine we score below Denmark and other countries in their score of democracies. Do you think the Uk, Germany, Australia, etc to be democracies? The fact we have two well disliked candidates (Trump and Clinton) leading each party show the system is not right. We are not getting good choices. The dem party has all those unaffiliated candidates so Bernie really did not have a chance since they are going to go with Clinton.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

We are getting further behind than other countries in many areas and our arrogance is part of the blame. Low government spending has worked so well for states like Mississippi - not.

Some people like the social system - well a lot of the world. Singapore is supposedly a leader in business friendliness but they have quite a soclalistic system. It costs a min $50k to own a car that we pay $20k - low taxes?.well depends.
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Arrogance ???!!! Seriously ?!?!?!?!

Thats what weve been missing for years, realizing that America is EXCEPTIONAL !!!

 
Ronkh said:
Thats what weve been missing for years, realizing that America is EXCEPTIONAL !!!
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The US is exceptional in many areas however it does not mean our way of doing things is best for some and their way may not be best for us. Some want a theocracy (or claim it is a theocracy) including people in our country. If they want a more social civil society and others want a free for all where the rich take advantage of everyone else that is their choice.

The question is by what standard. We are are not exceptional in health care, education, low violence, etc. These would be measures Christians would want.

I am sure someone can fact check this except from a movie.

 
Ah, religion and politics: two subjects I was told to NEVER bring up in public "discussions" or in forums such as these. Anyone who has followed this thread/topic this far has seen the full gambit run from economics, to teachers, to political leaders, to moral issues, to religion, to immigration and foreign workers and everything in between.

At some point, the admins and moderators may step in and shut this thread down as being too divisive, and way beyond what is allowable or acceptable for "Hot Tub" topics. But before that happens I would like to give some observations and opinions that are food for thought about this issue of minimum wage.
1) America, as a county, has lost its way economically. We buy (import) more that we produce within and sell oversea (export). Its NOT the recipe for financial success, and you do not need to be an economist to know that. At some point you and I (since the people ARE America) will be forced to pay up and pay back. How and when and by whom is the subject of great debate and not the focus of this point, but it is inevitable.
2) Because we no long produce internally within this county, there are less jobs. Im talking manufacturing jobs, not service jobs, that pay better because they produce a better profit than lower margin-and-profit service jobs. Tariffs on imports and protectionism will NOT produce these jobs. The countries you do business with need to WANT to buy your products or services. So what does America sell that they want today? Entertainment like movies, music, and video games. Investments like stocks and bonds (who do think is funding our national debt!) Weapons and military prowess to protect their interest. Yes, there are some things, like food, that they buy, but we also GIVE a lot of that away in humanitarian relief efforts, both federally and privately. Without good manufacturing jobs internally that produce some things we need and buy and sell to the rest of the world, national wealth will diminish or become non-existent.
3) The family unit, or more precisely, the lack thereof and its all-inclusiveness and re-definition is hurting our next generations. Say what you will and the father/mother traditional roles, the lack of parenthood is hurting the economic abilities of our young people. Education begins in the home and if life skills are not taught there, we cannot place that responsibility on the schools and teachers. So if a young person never learns to cope with the opposite sex because his/her same-sex parents are legally married but cannot relate to the childs question is it our schools failure?? Or if a single mom cannot teach her child respect for a male role model or authority, like a sports coach or work supervisor, is it our school teachers place to teach that? NO, real education starts in the family by both parents, male and female. You can disagree all you want, call me a bigot or a person hater, but I see this in our schools and our prison systems filled with young people who did not have the proper nurturing, love, and character-developement, and that responsibility can only rest on the parents (or parent).
4) I never forgot a proverb told to me by my work supervisor, now many years ago; "You cannot legislate morality, only immorality." He is correct in that assessment when I think of all the things that our government at ALL levels has allowed. This particular proverb was given when my state of Wisconsin legalized gambling and the lottery. As long as the state can make money from it, it should be legal, and since it happens anyway, why let the underworld profit from it. Some have characterized this issue of the minimum wage as a moral issue, and in some ways, it is. Morality must come from WITHIN the person and society, it cannot be dictated or forced. The concept of right-or-wrong and no absolutes is the reason why we have the chaos as we do. I am not going to get on my God-fearing-creationist-Ten commandments horse. I dont need to. This whole thread speaks for itself and the results are self-evident. You are the judge whether this is the truth or just an old mans opinion that should be banned and censored from this forum. Ill leave that to you and this forums admins to decide.
 
Nice observations Lonnie and i do not think they ban people for their thoughts .... anyone taking a political thread too seriously on a Detailing forum .. really needs to get a life ...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and their views of society .. a global economy has changed company goals as well as the labor force that goes with it ...

Family life again is what people make of it or do not make of it ... live a good, responsible life and hopefully you will get the results you expect for yourself :)
 
Bunky said:
. We are are not exceptional in health care, education, low violence, etc.]
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Surprise; I will disagree.


Healthcare (one word)

We have the absolute best available healthcare in the World. People travel from around the globe to receive treatments here in the USA, that their Govt. has determined are too expensive or that their Govt. has determined they will have to wait a year to receive.

With the passage of the Affordable Care Act, every single American Citizen has health insurance.

Even if you somehow, dont have health insurance...show up at any hospital and they are forced to treat you regardless of your ability to pay or citizenship. Medical bills are no longer a factor in determining your credit score. Indigent care is funded by Medicaid & County Funding. There are free and almost free Clinics available for everything from Dental care to pre-natal services.

Scandinavia is inhabited by a mostly genous population of Scandinavians, who are not obese, do not have diabetes.
Their healthcare costs have very little relevance to the circumstances in the USA.


Education

We spend more per student than almost any other country.

Give Parents School Choice and Vouchers. Let their Dollars decide. Public or Private.

In in many countries with Free University; not everyone gets in. There are entrance exams to make sure only the best prepared Students with the highest possible ROI are Allowed to attend. If you dont score high enough...you dont get to attend.



Please have some pride in this Great Country and say something positive in your next post.
 
Only thing I disagree with is that every person has healthcare.

Many chose not to enroll.

But entrance exams to get into college?? Thats "not fair".
 
allenk4 said:
Surprise; I will disagree.


Healthcare (one word)

We have the absolute best available healthcare in the World. People travel from around the globe to receive treatments here in the USA, that their Govt. has determined are too expensive or that their Govt. has determined they will have to wait a year to receive.

With the passage of the Affordable Care Act, every single American Citizen has health insurance.

Even if you somehow, dont have health insurance...show up at any hospital and they are forced to treat you regardless of your ability to pay or citizenship. Medical bills are no longer a factor in determining your credit score. Indigent care is funded by Medicaid & County Funding. There are free and almost free Clinics available for everything from Dental care to pre-natal services.

Scandinavia is inhabited by a mostly genous population of Scandinavians, who are not obese, do not have diabetes.
Their healthcare costs have very little relevance to the circumstances in the USA.


Education

We spend more per student than almost any other country.

Give Parents School Choice and Vouchers. Let their Dollars decide. Public or Private.

In in many countries with Free University; not everyone gets in. There are entrance exams to make sure only the best prepared Students with the highest possible ROI are Allowed to attend. If you dont score high enough...you dont get to attend.



Please have some pride in this Great Country and say something positive in your next post.
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I will agree with almost all of the true facts except School Choice or Vouchers ... the biggest problem is too many children are left behind in bad schools ... even though in theory this was thought to be better, it is only better for a few. This is why .. in large cities with minimal school budgets, you can get some very successful magnet schools where everyone wants to go (we have them here in Florida) and they often do it by a lottery system to be fair but not by earning it and parents get their kids out of a poorly rated high school. They are not going to fire all the teachers or close the not so good high school as they have no where else to send them. When enough kids find a way out, they bus them in from other towns to fill the classrooms. In a perfect society when money is no object, there are only great teachers and bad teachers can be fired for poor performance, this might work.
For private school vouchers, this will overload the private school system unless as I stated on an earlier post, that businesses are allowed to run schools and train them to fill jobs of the future not jobs of the past. Imagine an Apple School? IBM ? Ford? GM? etc ...


and one last point .. yes in foreign countries not everyone gets accepted, but not everyone should be going to a 4 year college .. there should be more trade schools and apprenticeships to expand useful employment.
 
There is a difference between having something that is state of the art anything versus access. We have some state of the art schools but that does not make the education system exceptional. California and New York City have exceptional things but does not mean it is exceptional to all. It is about quality of life for general population.

For example, in my definition, a country that educates all its people (no child left behind) has an exceptional education system. I do not think we are exceptional in that aspect.

I get the feeling some have not been outside this country and actually seen the rest of the world.
 
Poorboy said:
I will agree with almost all of the true facts except School Choice or Vouchers ... the biggest problem is too many children are left behind in bad schools ... even though in theory this was thought to be better, it is only better for a few. This is why .. in large cities with minimal school budgets, you can get some very successful magnet schools where everyone wants to go (we have them here in Florida) and they often do it by a lottery system to be fair but not by earning it and parents get their kids out of a poorly rated high school. They are not going to fire all the teachers or close the not so good high school as they have no where else to send them. When enough kids find a way out, they bus them in from other towns to fill the classrooms. In a perfect society when money is no object, there are only great teachers and bad teachers can be fired for poor performance, this might work.
For private school vouchers, this will overload the private school system unless as I stated on an earlier post, that businesses are allowed to run schools and train them to fill jobs of the future not jobs of the past. Imagine an Apple School? IBM ? Ford? GM? etc ...


and one last point .. yes in foreign countries not everyone gets accepted, but not everyone should be going to a 4 year college .. there should be more trade schools and apprenticeships to expand useful employment.
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I can tell you for a fact that where I lived in CT that Hartford paid about 3k+ more per student than West Hartford (this was when Stephen was in school). When you add school choice into the mix, bad schools go the way of bad business (adios), it will be quality schools that keep students, thus adding $$$ to that schools budget and keeping good facilities and teachers.

When I was growing up they had Metal shop, wood shop, auto shop offered as classes. They dont anymore.....
 
Ronkh said:
I can tell you for a fact that where I lived in CT that Hartford paid about 3k+ more per student than West Hartford (this was when Stephen was in school). When you add school choice into the mix, bad schools go the way of bad business (adios), it will be quality schools that keep students, thus adding $$$ to that schools budget and keeping good facilities and teachers.

When I was growing up they had Metal shop, wood shop, auto shop offered as classes. They dont anymore.....
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but you hit the nail on the head again as i mentioned ... there is no $$$$$ especially for inner city schools and you lived in a really nice area with high taxes ... no one wants or can pay those costs in rural areas either ...
 
Poorboy said:
but you hit the nail on the head again as i mentioned ... there is no $$$$$ especially for inner city schools and you lived in a really nice area with high taxes ... no one wants or can pay those costs in rural areas either ...
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Not understanding. Hartford pays tons more per kid.
 
Since this thread seems to be never-ending, heres some more food-for thought about the "need" to have a higher minimum wage:
1) Standard of living in America (Perhaps this would be better titled, "why Americans cannot compete with other countries"
Heres what we consider "necessities" to live in America and be considered "successful":
a) Higher Educational degree which means you may have a student loan debt of thousands of dollars before you even start your career or work, which is why young people are living at home into their young adult life.
b) A newer used car (OR two, if you are married), which means you probably have a car loan, which means you have a monthly payment, because you need dependable transportation to get to work somehow.
c) An older house to live somewhere which means you have a home loan and its monthly mortgage, so you HAVE to work.
d) A credit card or you simple cannot purchase ANYTHING online or go ANYWHERE without one in todays cashless society, so you may have a small credit card debt and make monthly payments on the balance.
What trend do we see here? To be successful you need to be in debt: it doesnt take money to make money, you just have to borrow money and give the appearance that you have money. Any why shouldnt you; the federal government does it.

Maybe thats what is missing from our families and our schools and our government: living within your means and learning (and actually practicing) fiscal responsibility and stewardship.

Even if you cannot borrow money, heres what are necessities to live in todays society:
1) A place to live:
So you pay rent, or help out with a mortgage if live at home with your parents or place of family member.
(If you have no job and income or family place, you may be on the street homeless or in a shelter.)
2) Food to eat
How much money do you spend on groceries to eat at home compared to what you make or earn in your job? Do you know?
How much do you spend eating out? How much do you spend on drinks at the bar or nightclub or that morning latte at coffee shops?
3) Clothes to wear
What percent for your disposable earned income do you spend on clothes? How many pairs of designer/sport shoes do you own, both men and women? When did you EVER buy something "slightly used" or "almost new" from a thrift/second-hand/confinement shop or rummage/garage/estate sale?
4) Mobile phone
EVEREYBODY has one: so how much is your monthly service fee?? How MANY apps did you buy??
5) Cable TV
Gotta watch ESPN or FS1 or the Discovery Channel or CNN or Showtime or binge on "Walking Dead" or........you got that much time??
6) Internet service
Facebook and Twitter (or Autopia!) would not survive without you. Youve probably bundled the last two into your mobile phone
7) Concert/movie/theater/sports of all kinds at all levels (high school/college/pro) tickets
We love our entertainment, especially sports
8) Personal transportation, usually a gasoline-powered vehicle
We are a mobile society. Unless you live in a major city with public transportation or canwalk or bicycle to your needed destination, you have a vehicle,
9) Medical insurance
The Affordable Heath Care Act is law so you HAVE to have it, even if its subsidized by a state or federal exchange.
10) Taxes and license fees at all government levels
Do you know what percentage of your total earnings (gross income) you pay in taxes? Think about vehicle license/hunting license/park entrance/professional license fee? How about sales taxes on EVERYTHING you buy? Social Security? FICA? Unemployment? Even your income tax percent on the bonus or overtime you received?

Whats my point? Youre Chinese or Indian (from India) counterpart who does the same job that you do here in America over there doesnt have the same "cost of living expenses" that you do here in America. This is especially true of entertainment and gambling (gaming) and how much money is spent by Americans on this venue. Or they are working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, AND going to company paid training while you go off to the nightclub, arena/stadium, movie theater or watch your shows on cable.

What is REALLY the root cause is we have NO concept of what it means to BUDGET our financial resources or save and plan for the future. How can we?? We spend it all just to live OR borrow money just to live on what we think is the good life in America TODAY. And it is the good life, TODAY!!! But what about tomorrow??

Heres my challenge to everyone who doesnt know what they spend each month on what or where their money goes:
Keep track of very penny you spend on a PC spreadsheet or bookkeeping column paper or download free budgeting software from your financial institution, if they have it. At the end of the month tally (add) up everything. You will probably be surprised what that daily latte or vending machine snack actually costs in a months time. Once you know where your money is going, you can make better decisions on how to spend it and maybe how to save it for the future. You might even be able to buy that Rupes 15 polisher youve wanted for detailing if you give up your coffee shop lattes and drink coffee you make at home and take to work.
 
Ronkh said:
Not understanding. Hartford pays tons more per kid.
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yes, and the amount of kids that dont graduate and make something of themselves is very low compared to inner city where there is no money ...

bottom line is we need the money from large businesses (by them having schools ie Apple, GE, IBM etc..) to support and train a new wave of employable yutes ...
 
Ronkh said:
Is that the school systems fault or family/environmental fault?
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thats a loaded question .. as you probably know you and I and our kids came home from the first week of school each year with text books ... we had as you said wood and metal shop, home economics (this guy learned to cook and sew) and here we are and our kids are on track to be productive ... now go to a inner city school ..(have friends that teach there) ..the entire grade shares one set of books and do not (keep having to remember there are no more apostrophes) get to take them home to study ... many homes there also do not have internet or computers .. some are supplied to use in schools and libraries ... support system for these kids is also poor ... so whose fault is it? too many to point fingers at .. social? family? city? county? state? government?

just as a side note here in Florida ..there may be less taxes but I pay for my kids Science & Art supplies each year and the school even in a pretty decent area and a magnet school has very little in the way of supplies for anything .. kids on school teams have to find their own way to away games .. no bus money unless the team does fund raisers (mostly really bad car washes) .. I have been a team driver for the past two years and personally i dont like the liability aspect ..
 
Lonnie said:
...

What is REALLY the root cause is we have NO concept of what it means to BUDGET our financial resources or save and plan for the future. How can we?? We spend it all just to live OR borrow money just to live on what we think is the good life in America TODAY. And it is the good life, TODAY!!! But what about tomorrow??

Heres my challenge to everyone who doesnt know what they spend each month on what or where their money goes:....
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MANY MANY people I know are like that. It kind of disturbs me when they complain about lack of funds, ask to borrow money from me, yet they have an iPad. Their kid has an iPad mini. Newer iPhones, etc.

Myself, I went thru a WiFi based calling plan (Republic Wireless) and was paying 5$ a month. Did it for almost two years while I saved.
I dont buy name brand clothing. Walmart, Target, and Sears. Ive been wearing the same slacks for work for about 6-7 years.

And that challenge WONT apply to me. I use a budget app (greatest thing ever!) AND i keep a spreadsheet. I use both to keep track of every single dollar. Even the dollar that goes to the homeless guy, or the dollar that goes to the Red Cross worker at the grocery store gets accounted for (I do round up to the nearest dollar).

Enough of that. More people need to be aware of their finances, though. Ive personally shared my ways to budget (I eventually managed it enough to be able to save almost 300 a month). People say the same thing, "Thats alot of work." - Yes, it is. And thats the difference between you and me. YOU are asking ME for money.

I grew up in the inner city. East Los Angeles. I went to the crappy public schools. I know they suck. They dont offer the same type of education I was able to witness at other schools, like Irvine High, where the kids, KIDS, are driving around in their BMWs and MBs. This was early 90s. Not sure what they drive these days. I managed to get out of the city. Furthered my education by attending UC Irvine. Got my degree. Im not going to lay all the blame to the schools. Theyre definitely bad, and dont offer similar resources as other schools where the graduation rate is much higher. But it took a lot of work on my end. Discipline.

My sister is a teacher in the Bay area. My other sister is a T.A for special needs children. My gf works for LAUSD. Similar stories from all of them. The system is broken.

At my gfs school (high risk, teen girls) the education sucks. I constantly hear of one science teacher who doesnt teach anything at all. Basically, its a baby sitting gig for him. Literally, he doesnt lecture. Gives hand-outs, makes them read, but doesnt do much. Of course, they cant fire him! (Gotta love that union)

The principal would rather keep the worst girls at the school...because they are given money PER student. Their budget is bad enough as it is, so I can see why she would want to bring in more money. Oh, and they focus more on teaching kids to pass tests, than any actual fundamentals.

My Bay Area sister finds it difficult to teach, as well. She has a passion for it. She CHOSE to go into teaching. But, for as much as she wants to see her kids learn and succeed, the admin has their own agenda. Its rarely aligned with wanting the best for the kids.

Gotta get back to work. LOL - Ive been holding back from posting on this thread for fear that my blood pressure would rise. I was right.
Im going for a walk. OH,and I need to get my morning coffee!! Man.

Yeah, Im going to the car to get a whiff of some Poorboys goods.


EDIT: Post 97 and 98 were not there as I was typing this..... BRB
 
Poorboy said:
... support system for these kids is also poor ... so whose fault is it? too many to point fingers at .. social? family? city? county? state? government?

just as a side note here in Florida ..there may be less taxes but I pay for my kids Science & Art supplies each year and the school even in a pretty decent area and a magnet school has very little in the way of supplies for anything .. kids on school teams have to find their own way to away games .. no bus money unless the team does fund raisers (mostly really bad car washes) .. I have been a team driver for the past two years and personally i dont like the liability aspect ..
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Indeed, its all those combined. It adds up to those kids not having comparable opportunities as others.

My gfs daughter (my future step kid) is in Drill Team. Fund raisers all the time. My GF and I recycle cans and plastics to help pay for her uniforms. WE (parents) have to drive our kids to the events. And those really suck, cuz you can be stuck far from home, and for a long time. UGH. Hate those days.

So why do I spend money on detailing supplies? To make money on the side to offset some costs! Heck, we were putting in place a fund raiser where I was going to raffle off a detail job!
 
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