No-Bama Care ?????

davidc said:
Wow, I started getting those a few years ago. They are the most painful thing I have ever had. I have had broken bones and I have had my share of injuries over the years. The closest pain of the cluster that I can think of is a brain freeze. As for our affordable health care my deductible went from 250.00 to 2000.00. The great United Health care prescription part known as Optum RX will only allow 3 pills a month for the Cluster Head aches. I appealed the decision and told them of the unbearable pain and it is the only time I contemplate suicide. They do not care even though I told them a 40 cal bullet in my Glock would give relief from the pain. I have found a RX on line that will fill the prescription for what ever the Doctor writes the prescription for at a descent price. Other than that problem I am paying for insurance but cannot afford to get all the things wrong with me fixed as I am paying for other people to have insurance. Sounds real fair to me.

Dave
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My heart goes out to you..... I am a chronic cluster head. No breaks. 3-5 in 24 hr period. I get the same run around from express scripts. They give me on box of sumatriptian nasal spry (6 pcs) a month. They raised my co pay for that to 75.00. I buy the rest as well as sumatriptian pills from Costco.

You may want to look into Costco for pills. Yeah they take a long time to work (if its going to work, for me it works about 60% of the time). But Costco gets about 35.00 for 18 pills.

I looked into Canadian pharm for the nasal sprays. CVS and Costco about 300.00 for 6 pcs. 6 pcs = 3 days for those who dont know.
 
Ronkh said:
My heart goes out to you..... I am a chronic cluster head. No breaks. 3-5 in 24 hr period. I get the same run around from express scripts. They give me on box of sumatriptian nasal spry (6 pcs) a month. They raised my co pay for that to 75.00. I buy the rest as well as sumatriptian pills from Costco.

You may want to look into Costco for pills. Yeah they take a long time to work (if its going to work, for me it works about 60% of the time). But Costco gets about 35.00 for 18 pills.

I looked into Canadian pharm for the nasal sprays. CVS and Costco about 300.00 for 6 pcs. 6 pcs = 3 days for those who dont know.
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PM sent

Dave
 
Lonnie said:
The ever-increasing rate of diabetes is well established. 100 years ago, the percentage of people with diabetes was much lower.
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I had read an article that the American Indians suffer the highest percentage and it was attributed to their diet changing so fast - almost no sugar to high sugar -- food, alcohol, etc.

What if you paid insurance rates based upon BMI?
 
Dont even get me started on the diabetes thing. Type 2 could practically be eliminated, without drugs, by a shift in diet. The science is all there, the drug companies are pying to keep people from seeing it. Why? Because the drug conpanies dont make money by people not being diabetic anymore...
 
Obama care is a joke. Its expensive and the coverage is notoriously bad. If you have it for your Rxs - you cant come to my pharmacy cause we dont take it.

Im prolly going to take a lot of heat for this - but the people have the healthcare system now they deserve. The mess we are in with crazy high prices for medical treatment and medications is directly related to peoples overwhelming desire to to pay nothing for something.

If you send a guy to school for 7 years and call him a lawyer - some how its acceptable for him to charge several hundred dollars for an hour or so of his time. Send a guy to school for 8 years and call him a doctor - now for some reason, people think its their God given right they should be able to see him for $10.

So what happens? Third parties and managed care stepped in during the 1980s. They were going to "manage" healthcare costs. Everyone wanted to sign up, they wanted $5 Rxs / Dr visits opposed to $20 Rxs / visits.

They thought it was the smart thing to do, like these private companies somehow had their best interest at heart. Like somehow the goal of these companies wasnt to suck huge profits out of the healthcare system.

Drs were getting screwed - and insurance companies and lawyers were getting rich. But, nobody cared. They just wanted $5 copays. Taking the actual cost out of the hands of the consumer allowed drug companies to run wild with their prices as well.

No we are where we are today. Premiums are high, copays are high, deductibles are high - and the actual cost of brand name medication is through the roof.

Yet people still want to rely on a "third party" or government agency to "manage" their healthcare costs.

Stuff wasnt this crazy when you simply paid the doctor, hospital, or pharmacy yourself out of your pocket. If a new drug came out and the price was crazy - nobody would get it. Therefore, there little incentive to market meds people couldnt afford; or just randomly set drugs at a crazy high price point simply because its "new".

As long as we have Obama Care, Hilary Care, or any type of managed care (private or federal), actual costs for treatment will continue to rise and the quality of care will continue to drop. Insurance companies and lawyers will find more ways to suck the healthcare system dry.
 
Swanicyouth said:
Obama care is a joke. Its expensive and the coverage is notoriously bad. If you have it for your Rxs - you cant come to my pharmacy cause we dont take it.

Im prolly going to take a lot of heat for this - but the people have the healthcare system now they deserve. The mess we are in with crazy high prices for medical treatment and medications is directly related to peoples overwhelming desire to to pay nothing for something.

If you send a guy to school for 7 years and call him a lawyer - some how its acceptable for him to charge several hundred dollars for an hour or so of his time. Send a guy to school for 8 years and call him a doctor - now for some reason, people think its their God given right they should be able to see him for $10.

So what happens? Third parties and managed care stepped in during the 1980s. They were going to "manage" healthcare costs. Everyone wanted to sign up, they wanted $5 Rxs / Dr visits opposed to $20 Rxs / visits.

They thought it was the smart thing to do, like these private companies somehow had their best interest at heart. Like somehow the goal of these companies wasnt to suck huge profits out of the healthcare system.

Drs were getting screwed - and insurance companies and lawyers were getting rich. But, nobody cared. They just wanted $5 copays. Taking the actual cost out of the hands of the consumer allowed drug companies to run wild with their prices as well.

No we are where we are today. Premiums are high, copays are high, deductibles are high - and the actual cost of brand name medication is through the roof.

Yet people still want to rely on a "third party" or government agency to "manage" their healthcare costs.

Stuff wasnt this crazy when you simply paid the doctor, hospital, or pharmacy yourself out of your pocket. If a new drug came out and the price was crazy - nobody would get it. Therefore, there little incentive to market meds people couldnt afford; or just randomly set drugs at a crazy high price point simply because its "new".

As long as we have Obama Care, Hilary Care, or any type of managed care (private or federal), actual costs for treatment will continue to rise and the quality of care will continue to drop. Insurance companies and lawyers will find more ways to suck the healthcare system dry.
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When I was growing up, health insurance was for catastrophic care. If you went to the dr, you paid for the dr., shots etc....
 
Swanicyouth said:
Obama care is a joke. Its expensive and the coverage is notoriously bad. If you have it for your Rxs - you cant come to my pharmacy cause we dont take it.

Im prolly going to take a lot of heat for this - but the people have the healthcare system now they deserve. The mess we are in with crazy high prices for medical treatment and medications is directly related to peoples overwhelming desire to to pay nothing for something.

If you send a guy to school for 7 years and call him a lawyer - some how its acceptable for him to charge several hundred dollars for an hour or so of his time. Send a guy to school for 8 years and call him a doctor - now for some reason, people think its their God given right they should be able to see him for $10.

So what happens? Third parties and managed care stepped in during the 1980s. They were going to "manage" healthcare costs. Everyone wanted to sign up, they wanted $5 Rxs / Dr visits opposed to $20 Rxs / visits.

They thought it was the smart thing to do, like these private companies somehow had their best interest at heart. Like somehow the goal of these companies wasnt to suck huge profits out of the healthcare system.

Drs were getting screwed - and insurance companies and lawyers were getting rich. But, nobody cared. They just wanted $5 copays. Taking the actual cost out of the hands of the consumer allowed drug companies to run wild with their prices as well.

No we are where we are today. Premiums are high, copays are high, deductibles are high - and the actual cost of brand name medication is through the roof.

Yet people still want to rely on a "third party" or government agency to "manage" their healthcare costs.

Stuff wasnt this crazy when you simply paid the doctor, hospital, or pharmacy yourself out of your pocket. If a new drug came out and the price was crazy - nobody would get it. Therefore, there little incentive to market meds people couldnt afford; or just randomly set drugs at a crazy high price point simply because its "new".

As long as we have Obama Care, Hilary Care, or any type of managed care (private or federal), actual costs for treatment will continue to rise and the quality of care will continue to drop. Insurance companies and lawyers will find more ways to suck the healthcare system dry.
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This is a great post and leads to a follow up question....how can it be fixed? The cat is out of the bag as far as prices go. Theyre never gonna go down. I dont think anybody has any realistic solution.

And lets be honest.....theres powerful players with boat loads of money at stake that dont want things to change, so they arent going to change
 
Nice post, Swanicyouth.

You hit a lot of the salient points, and the most significant point is that there is no longer any direct provider-consumer market relationship. Participants in healthcare dont have any financial stake in healthcare, because they pay $10 for expert care and $5 for top of the line drugs. What most lack is personal responsibility: a drug will fix my diabetes; a surgery will fix my weight problem/smoking problem.

One good thing did come out of Obamacare: exclusions based on prior illnesses. However, even that has its faults. I certainly wouldnt want to insure a morbidly obese smoker with diabetes with recurrent angina who needs bypass as well as lung reduction surgery and two knee replacements.

Alas, were not dealing with a health care "access" problem; were dealing with a health care "over-utilization" problem.

Doctors are reduced to yes men who give patients what they want so theyll come back. They prescribe not what they think is best but what the insurance company dictates. No, we dont really decide who gets surgery; we only operate on people who are "cleared" by their insurance companies. We spend hours every day dictating, entering in data into electronic records and talking to undereducated insurance reps on the phone while were forced to see patients every 15 minutes with a smile, hot coffee and beautiful ambient music -- because satisfaction surveys and "likelihood to recommend" trump actual care.

BS.
 
Some of you that have read my posts know I lived in Honduras for 10 years, the Thirdworldest of the Thirdworld countries. A trip to the emergency room was $5. I did not need to get a prescription to get medication, I went to the drugstore and told the person behind the counter what I needed, and if I didnt know I could go to a Cuban trained doctor and be seen for $10. The drugs sold are the same ones sold in the US, but at much, much lower prices. My wife had a baby with complications and had to stay in the hospital for 7 days, that cost me $500 total. I had my appendix removed and stayed 5 days for $400. If I would have been without money they have a free hospital where the same doctors that work in the paid hospital work for free (you have to pay for your medication). The doctors there do not pay for medical school. The ones I talked to were not in medicine for the money (some drove cabs to make ends meet) they wanted to help people. They could have made big bucks here in the US, but they chose to stay. They did not have the latest in diagnostic machinery, but they would listen and talk to you like a human being. I had the best medical care there. But I also had a little money, minimum wage there was about 50 cents an hour. So even at those prices many people could not afford medical care. Now I have to deal with the Veterans Administration, which from what I hear, is similar to what the Canadians have and the VA system is and has been broken. Obamacare may not be the best option but at least it is something. You have to start somewhere. I dont have the answers, but I waited for the Republicans to toss something out opposed to Obamacare and I saw nothing. The provision for preexisting conditions was a step in the right direction. Everyone needs affordable health insurance whether they want it or not. Kind of like immunizations for contagious diseases. Sometimes governments need to step in and take over, but we have to have people with integrity in charge. In a round about way what I was trying to say if you have money and you can pay for your own healthcare you dont need the government, but if you are poor you better hope the government helps you or you are dead. I got good healthcare in a Thirdworld country because I could afford it, but there even the poor have something to fall back on. Now lemme get off of this soap box.
 
Swanicyouth said:
....or any type of managed care (private or federal), actual costs for treatment will continue to rise and the quality of care will continue to drop. Insurance companies and lawyers will find more ways to suck the healthcare system dry.
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You just described capitalism...

When companies want to get into a business they want to rig the system for them to maximize profits.
 
Bunky said:
You just described capitalism...

When companies want to get into a business they want to rig the system for them to maximize profits.
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That "rigged" system also pays for R&D, JOBS, food on the table and retirement for investors.......

So we should get rid of the "rigged system" As Bernie says FREE EVERYTHING FOR EVERYBODY !
 
I think one thing we can all agree on is this: The Affordable Heath Care Act is NOT social heath-care. If it was, the federal government would own and run the hospitals, drug companies and pharmacies, and heath offices as well as employ all the personnel needed to man (excuse me, "person", being politically correct) those required positions. There would be no middleman insurance that would pay for this system.

We already HAVE a federal social heath-care system: the Veterans Administration. As ANY veteran who has dealt with the VA if it is a good system. Read the newspaper accounts about the investigation into this managed cared and its failure to properly care for our veterans or the red tape and paperwork that is required to get the proper care or the wait times that they endure for this care. Its the axiom of, "If it is bad car detailing, but its FREE, its still bad detailing" to put in Autopian-speak.

Is bad heath-care better than NO heath-care? Thats a good question. Why does social heath-care "work" in some European countries? (Hint: its why gasoline is $6.00 to $8.00 a gallon over there!) Im waiting for the day when the federal government starts to seize the assets of hospitals, drug companies, and heath-care offices under the laws "hidden" in the Affordable Heath Care Act. Like Nancy Pelosi said, "We dont know the full scope of the legislation until we pass it."
 
Lonnie said:
I think one thing we can all agree on is this: The Affordable Heath Care Act is NOT social heath-care. If it was, the federal government would own and run the hospitals, drug companies and pharmacies, and heath offices as well as employ all the personnel needed to man (excuse me, "person", being politically correct) those required positions. There would be no middleman insurance that would pay for this system.

We already HAVE a federal social heath-care system: the Veterans Administration. As ANY veteran who has dealt with the VA if it is a good system. Read the newspaper accounts about the investigation into this managed cared and its failure to properly care for our veterans or the red tape and paperwork that is required to get the proper care or the wait times that they endure for this care. Its the axiom of, "If it is bad car detailing, but its FREE, its still bad detailing" to put in Autopian-speak.

Is bad heath-care better than NO heath-care? Thats a good question. Why does social heath-care "work" in some European countries? (Hint: its why gasoline is $6.00 to $8.00 a gallon over there!) Im waiting for the day when the federal government starts to seize the assets of hospitals, drug companies, and heath-care offices under the laws "hidden" in the Affordable Heath Care Act. Like Nancy Pelosi said, "We dont know the full scope of the legislation until we pass it."
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Thank you Lonnie. The VA is the perfect example of what happens when government runs healthcare.

(btw AL, you asked where the death panels were???......)
 
rlmccarty2000 said:
. .... In a round about way what I was trying to say if you have money and you can pay for your own healthcare you dont need the government, but if you are poor you better hope the government helps you or you are dead. I got good healthcare in a Thirdworld country because I could afford it, but there even the poor have something to fall back on. Now lemme get off of this soap box.
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Youve hit the economics of this "affordable" heath-care issue on the head. Ive ALWAYS contended that this is what heath-care in America would become when 1960s President Lyndon Johnson enacted "The Great Society" legislation and "re-appropriated"(usurped) the funds from Social Security for the welfare system weve come to know and depend on. Is heath care a right we all pay for or a privilege we buy? OR should those who do not choose to take care of themselves be allowed to reap the consequences of their actions? Now that insurance is required by law for EVERY citizen, can heath providers now legally deny heath service for those who are not legal citizens with no insurance? Who decides when enough financial resources are spent on a person for a heath issue or at what age they would "benefit" society? Moral issues to be sure.

The above quote gives insight to the term I call Economic Euthanasia. It simply means this: if you can afford to buy medical services and medication to contribute to or prolong your life, you live; if you cannot afford the same, you die. I hate to say that heath-care is a money/economics issue, but the term "Affordable Heath Care Act" has already self-defined that.
 
Bunky said:
I had read an article that the American Indians suffer the highest percentage and it was attributed to their diet changing so fast - almost no sugar to high sugar -- food, alcohol, etc.//
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Agree completely that many health problems (including the explosion of TypeII Diabetes) are a matter of lifestyle and that meds that allow people to do OK (well, if you call that OK...) while continuing unhealthy behaviors are not a real solution.

Eh, theyre still recommending a diet based on high-carbs :rolleyes:

What if you paid insurance rates based upon BMI?
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BMI is BS. Even with a bodyfat% well down in the single-digits Im often ranked as "slightly overweight" or even worse; it doesnt take muscle or bone into account. Far too dumbed-down to be meaningful.
 
We can probably all agree that the system is broken, but insurance companies have not and will not want to fix it because of the bottom line ...money

The root of the problem actually stems from other insurance companies and the lawyers that exploited this.

First problem is that Doctors are human and make mistakes ... lawyers came along and said sue the doctors, the hospitals and anyone you can think of.

Many years ago the doctor would say he was sorry and there was nothing more he could do and people said ok or never went back to that doctor.

Then lawyers sued for millions and doctors had no choice but to pay insurance companies outrageous amounts just to remain a doctor.

Some states passed limitation laws but it is still not enough and everyone cant pick up and go to those states.

One of my doctors told me malpractice has become so unaffordable that many people who spent years going to school to become doctors, now only to work in labs, like his son.

My main doctors have sold their practices to "health care companies" that have nothing to do with medicine other than collecting money.

Again the system is broken because of greed .

Answers? Affordable Care Act .. maybe or maybe not .. do our paid representatives, (who get great healthcare for life ).. try and fix it or give us a path to a better system, NO ! They are all talk and no action and are not held accountable for their lack of action.

Can we be like Canada or European countries, probably not as those countries (individually) are not as diverse as we are geographically and financially.
Some states that have huge cities have had more people on get insurance, but the rural states have seen tremendous jumps in health care costs with hardly any increase in enrollment .. system is broken ...

During the debates only good idea that has been mentioned is making insurance companies compete across state lines, rather than within a state they choose.
This is not only for health, but when I moved my business from NY to Florida, my insurance company dropped me because they dont want to insure Florida businesses... this again is where the Gov should step in and tell the big insurance companies either you insure all or you cant insure any. Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad.

Bottom line is that we need our elected officials to work for us and find solutions rather than pointing out the elephant in the room, collecting their paychecks and life long health coverage and flying home on weekends and writing it off as a work expense.
 
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