No-Bama Care ?????
- Thread starter Ronkh
- Start date
rlmccarty2000
Active member
Government needs to regulate Big-Pharma. Medication prices in the US are way higher than other nations. Someone needs to wake up and tell the people profits are not always a good thing. Lives are more important than money, and that is forgotten sometimes.
Ronkh
Wax Waster
And just in time for after the election.......... coincidence ?
Ronkh
Wax Waster
someone needs to get government out of business...... Let the consumer decide.
There is not one thing $$$$$ wise that the government has succeeded at. They bankrupted a brothel and a gin mill.......
trashmanssd
New member
I am a bit torn on this one. Normally I am for the government getting out the way and letting the market decide things but on Medical Care (medical Science, Prescription Drugs, Long term Care, ...) its a very tricky subject. With 0 government involvement I think we would get a lot lower rate of research and discovery of new medical techniques and medicines. Having patent laws and enforcement allows companys a exclusive time to charge enough to make back there investment in research (really paying for research of the next drug or technique). But a lot of this medical research gets government grants, what percentage of the research cost it covered by those grants I have not a clue but we are footing some of the bill already. Maybe over hauling the patent process for Pharmaceuticals would make it better. Patents are 20 years on pharmaceuticals but 5-15 years of that can be eaten up in animal and human trials and FDA approval process. But then again they can get a patent extension if the reformulate the product enough in that time gaining them more exclusive years. Its one big hot mess maybe making the patent good for 5-10 years from the FDA approval with no extensions would give them a concrete time to recoup costs.
Oh side bar,
Fun fact Senators and Congressman that are on the committees and over seeing these industries are allowed to invest in companies they are over seeing and are directly gaining financially from there decisions on these companies (not just getting huge campaign contributions).
Oh side bar,
Fun fact Senators and Congressman that are on the committees and over seeing these industries are allowed to invest in companies they are over seeing and are directly gaining financially from there decisions on these companies (not just getting huge campaign contributions).
Ronkh
Wax Waster
I read somewhere it costs almost 1 billion to get a new drug through fda and a few years.
I get whats called cluster headaches..... (google em, or you tube em) There has been a device that has been testing for over 3 years with the fda. Nothing yet. It is made in USA, has been approved in numerous countries. I was going to run up to Canada and get one, but now all the Drs on the list for the item say "not accepting new patients"
On a little different take on medical coverage hikes it that when someone else pays, people tend to not car or not care as much. If the private market were to take over prices would drop. EX = Lasik
I get whats called cluster headaches..... (google em, or you tube em) There has been a device that has been testing for over 3 years with the fda. Nothing yet. It is made in USA, has been approved in numerous countries. I was going to run up to Canada and get one, but now all the Drs on the list for the item say "not accepting new patients"
On a little different take on medical coverage hikes it that when someone else pays, people tend to not car or not care as much. If the private market were to take over prices would drop. EX = Lasik
Accumulator
Well-known member
Im generally the sort of Laissez Faire capitalist that Ayn Rand would be proud of, and IMO its perfectly sensible that pharmaceutical companies depend on the Profit Motive just like any other business.
GOTTA have R&D in this field so we can conquer/better manage more diseases. Gotta have a way to fund that and pay their employees so people will want to work for them. SO they gotta make money.
BUT, when I read about stuff like Pearsons shennanigans at Valeant Pharmaceuticals I think that there can be a fine line between profit-motivated Capitalists and Vulture Capitalists, and the latter are another example of how short-term thinking, coupled with IRrational self-interest, can cause big problems. And big problems in this particular industry spell trouble for everybody.
Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
If the Congress spent more time trying to fix it over the past 6 years instead of trying to kill it maybe we wouldnt have this debate ... Having a pre-existing condition (heart bypass) and having a daughter with one too (cancer), I want to see improvement not replacement ...
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
If free enterprise was the answer we would have the cheapest and best health care but it never is true enterprise (companies able to enter the market to compete, etc).
We have monopolies and when companies get the government to rig the system -- like why you cannot go beyond state boundaries, import cheaper drugs, etc. The republicans claimed for years it was the lawyers causing all the problem but that was just trying to blame someone.
Obamacare was trying to work against that without solving the problem (big Pharma, lack of real competition, etc). That would require more bipartisan effort...hard to do when many are owned by special interests knowing at their next election money will pour in to try to defeat them.
Where are those death panels anyway?
We have monopolies and when companies get the government to rig the system -- like why you cannot go beyond state boundaries, import cheaper drugs, etc. The republicans claimed for years it was the lawyers causing all the problem but that was just trying to blame someone.
Obamacare was trying to work against that without solving the problem (big Pharma, lack of real competition, etc). That would require more bipartisan effort...hard to do when many are owned by special interests knowing at their next election money will pour in to try to defeat them.
Where are those death panels anyway?
Ronkh
Wax Waster
IMHO the only useful thing about Obama care is the pre-existing condition provision. Aside from that its a waste of paper, resources (isnt he a natural resources guy?) and redistribution of wealth. Its a tax, now ait, its not a tax, oh your honor its a tax.
But I am grateful that I can get free birth control pills.. Now if theyd just make em for men.... Id get the Dr that I couldnt keep to write me a script......
Ronkh
Wax Waster
The only thing O care was made for was to eventually go to a single payer system when those mean old insurance companies can no longer withstand the loss.
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
It is flawed and needs to be revamped. One big flaw is that those without company provided insurance end up paying for those who cannot afford it. A fairer way (and definite affect a lot more people) is to tax all heath care benefits by employers so the cost is spread. This benefit can be called income. You can go to a voucher system where you can either get insurance from your companys provided or spend it in vegas then claim the government is taking all your money.
It is always tricky when government tries to use a for profit industry to deliver best possible care for lower costs. Companies bid out their health care.
My idea is to just have Americans joined the Canadian system.....so we have a North America Union.
Ronkh
Wax Waster
It is flawed and needs to be revamped. One big flaw is that those without company provided insurance end up paying for those who cannot afford it. A fairer way (and definite affect a lot more people) is to tax all heath care benefits by employers so the cost is spread. This benefit can be called income. You can go to a voucher system where you can either get insurance from your companys provided or spend it in vegas then claim the government is taking all your money.
It is always tricky when government tries to use a for profit industry to deliver best possible care for lower costs. Companies bid out their health care.
My idea is to just have Americans joined the Canadian system.....so we have a North America Union.
Maybe I wasnt clear enough.... So Ill put it in detailing terms......
If you polish a turd, its still a turd. If you glaze over and wax clearcoat failure,its till clearcoat failure.............
So, kill it and start over. (consider that a repaint in detailing terms)
Bunky
Detailing Gnosis
I consider revamping as repainting not scrapping the car.
Poorboy
Founder Poorboy's World
maybe it just needs a new owner and mechanics / painter .. the old ones just gave up trying ...
like my plumber .. i dont fix toilets I only replace them
I think Obama Care as everyone is calling it, not only removed the pre-existing condition condition issue, but also removed the max amount paid out per person limit. On the flip side, my uncle, who never wanted health care but was made go get it, was diagnosed with bladder and prostate cancer. Sure glad he had insurance to pay for the multiple surgeries and chemo......
Ronkh
Wax Waster
Just like o care........ Too much crap in it...... :rockon
Here are three things that NEED to happen to reduce the cost of medication:
1) Longer patents times (7 years instead of 4) on drugs to allow developers to recoup their investment cost without "generic manufacturers" cutting into those profits.
2) No more advertising via mass media. Back to the days of drug reps working directly with the doctors. NOT the patient saying "I saw this ad on TV" and telling the doctor , "thats what I need for my condition/disease". Do you know how much money is allocated to marketing and who pays for that? (the end user)
3) Limit liability suits by end users against drug/medical manufacturers. Do you know how much money is allocated for legal suits and who pays for that ? (Ditto again) (Hey, I did not say it would be popular or even acceptable!)
Guess which medicine is THE most profitable for drug manufacturers? Male anti-impotence drugs (Viagra, Cealis, etc) REALLY??!! We cannot find a cure for cancer, BUT we have found a way for 60 year-old males to reproduce like their still 30-something. Just saying..... I think sometimes our medical priorities are "misaligned" to the natural progression of life and responsibilities to society in general.
Heres another thought on medication:
The ever-increasing rate of diabetes is well established. 100 years ago, the percentage of people with diabetes was much lower. WHY? Because insulin has allowed diabetes genes to be passed on to successive generations. 100 years ago, those same people would have died before reproducing. Insulin does not cure diabetes; it allows those with it to live on, and pass on that genetic disease to the next generation. So, it is the medication for the disease that is actually causing an increase in the disease. Now if you are one of those unfortunate individuals who has this disease (or are genetically prone to it as I am) insulin or related diabetes medication is/are THE reason why you can live a life as you do and you will disagree on my observation/opinion. Just remember why doctors ask, "Does anyone in your family have this-or-that disease?"
1) Longer patents times (7 years instead of 4) on drugs to allow developers to recoup their investment cost without "generic manufacturers" cutting into those profits.
2) No more advertising via mass media. Back to the days of drug reps working directly with the doctors. NOT the patient saying "I saw this ad on TV" and telling the doctor , "thats what I need for my condition/disease". Do you know how much money is allocated to marketing and who pays for that? (the end user)
3) Limit liability suits by end users against drug/medical manufacturers. Do you know how much money is allocated for legal suits and who pays for that ? (Ditto again) (Hey, I did not say it would be popular or even acceptable!)
Guess which medicine is THE most profitable for drug manufacturers? Male anti-impotence drugs (Viagra, Cealis, etc) REALLY??!! We cannot find a cure for cancer, BUT we have found a way for 60 year-old males to reproduce like their still 30-something. Just saying..... I think sometimes our medical priorities are "misaligned" to the natural progression of life and responsibilities to society in general.
Heres another thought on medication:
The ever-increasing rate of diabetes is well established. 100 years ago, the percentage of people with diabetes was much lower. WHY? Because insulin has allowed diabetes genes to be passed on to successive generations. 100 years ago, those same people would have died before reproducing. Insulin does not cure diabetes; it allows those with it to live on, and pass on that genetic disease to the next generation. So, it is the medication for the disease that is actually causing an increase in the disease. Now if you are one of those unfortunate individuals who has this disease (or are genetically prone to it as I am) insulin or related diabetes medication is/are THE reason why you can live a life as you do and you will disagree on my observation/opinion. Just remember why doctors ask, "Does anyone in your family have this-or-that disease?"
nickclark08
New member
Sounds good in theory, until one realizes that Adult onset diabetes is the most common, and typically does not manifest until upper 30s/ lower 40s. Most people have reproduced by this point.....
My mom is Type 1, had me at 25, diagnosed mid-thirties.
Wow, I started getting those a few years ago. They are the most painful thing I have ever had. I have had broken bones and I have had my share of injuries over the years. The closest pain of the cluster that I can think of is a brain freeze. As for our affordable health care my deductible went from 250.00 to 2000.00. The great United Health care prescription part known as Optum RX will only allow 3 pills a month for the Cluster Head aches. I appealed the decision and told them of the unbearable pain and it is the only time I contemplate suicide. They do not care even though I told them a 40 cal bullet in my Glock would give relief from the pain. I have found a RX on line that will fill the prescription for what ever the Doctor writes the prescription for at a descent price. Other than that problem I am paying for insurance but cannot afford to get all the things wrong with me fixed as I am paying for other people to have insurance. Sounds real fair to me.
Dave