Some Questions, Trying to Learn...

Simba5

Simba5

New member
I have a '90 ZR-1 Vette, Black on Black. I've done well in several shows - but it has fine scratches and swirl marks noticeable in bright sunshine or light. I have a PC 7424. Trying to learn how it works.
I got the Menzerna fg 400, the fg 4000, and a bottle of Wolfgang Deep Gloss 3.0 paint sealer. I had a day to mess around this weekend so I used the PC 7424 and Meguiars Ultimate Compound on my wife's cool vanilla 300C thats 10 years old - to try and get a better feel for this before doing my Vette. Finished with one application of the Wolfgang sealer.
Questions: the pad on the PC hardly ever actually rotated, I was applying pressure, using close to setting 5 with the compound. I had it up to about 5 1/2 but the pad started throwing glue out and separated. I did get decent results, the car has never been polished and gets run through a automatic wash with the brushes and strips so it had lots of scratches. I was doing about a 2'x2' section at a time. I didn't use my good Menzerna compound, didn't want to learn using it yet. SO - do I need to apply pressure so the pad DOESN'T rotate and let the vibration do the work, or light pressure so it rotates?

On the sealer: I used a gold pad and setting 4. Questions: how many times do I need to go over each area as I apply?
Does it help to do multiple applications of sealer, and if so how long should I let one coat dry before applying another?
I used the pad cleaner from the kit I got with the PC on the pads. Compound pads cleaned right out with water. Sealer pad didn't clean at all. Tried Dawn on it too. Still squeeze sealer out of it and it's still wet 3 days later. How do I clean a sealer pad, and is this one junk now since I used Dawn and the other cleaner?
 
In regards to the PC:

-It is helpful to mark your backing plate's side edge with a sharpie line(or few) so that you can keep a better eye on the rotation and adjust pressure accordingly.
-For correction, i always use the max speed , it's hard to burn through paint with that thing, you would have to really try. When polishing after compound, start with max speed as well, then you can finish the last few passes at speed 5 and less pressure.
-Cleaning sealant/wax off a pad manually can be a pain IME, what's worked best for me is soak the pad's face in a mild APC/Water mixture then hit it with my pressure washer. If you don't have a PW you can try a soft bristle brush and get as much off the pad's surface as you can. When i was only cleaning the pad by hand, there would be some dust/residue when it dried, so before every use i would spin the pad on the PC along with a soft brush touching the surface until all the dust disappeared and i never had an issue nor ended up installing any swirls on the paint during the sealing process. I dry my pads by laying them face down on a clean towel where ONLY freshly cleaned pads rest to air dry.

As always, there will be other opinions according to what has worked best for other individuals. Try this out and see if it works, i know it did for me when all i used was a PC.
 
As has already been stated correctly above, you need to have your PC running at speed 6 to try to get the most rotation out of the pad, because it is the rotation that is going to work the compound best to get it to correct, break down, and polish to the best of its abilities.. You need to be applying pressure, but you have to balance that with pad rotation to get good results..

I would think about investing in a smaller backing plate and pads for that plate - say the 5" backing plate and 5.25" pads, so you get more rotation and the machine is easier to handle at speed 6.. They also make smaller backing plates and pads now, all the way down to probably 2" to allow you to get into smaller areas and work just a small spot, etc..

It will take much longer than using a Rotary correctly, but you can get pretty good results with that PC if you are patient and take the time..

You also need good, professional pads, not whatever you used that came apart when using it...
There are many choices here, I would stick with companies that have been around the longest, because that tells me they are producing good products that have good use history, otherwise the companies would be long gone...

You need a dedicated foam pad cleaner that can be purchased here if you wish.. I have used Snappy Clean Powder in those little envelopes for about 10 years and it has always been great at cleaning ALL the gunk out of pads, low foaming, and rinsing very clean, so I have nothing but clean foam to work with next time... Its made for pads and not any type of APC that will probably make a lot of foam, etc., be hard to get all out of the more dense, really good pads, and will take forever to rinse clean...

You need lots of pads of whatever you decide to get, not a couple, more like 6 of each, so you can use them up, toss them in a bucket of snappy clean mix, and keep going with another clean, dry pad...
Otherwise, this project and subsequent ones will take forever to finish...

I NEVER use a pad to apply sealants, wax, etc... It wrecks the pad forever, it sucks up more of the product than you will ever end up using so you are wasting product, and I just dont want to waste a good pad on this part of the process..
I would rather waste a very inexpensive yellow foam applicator that can be thrown away, and apply the product by hand, than ever waste a pad on this part of the process...

There are machines starting with the Griot's machine that have more power and pad rotation available and at least the Griot's machine comes with a lifetime warranty, which you will use, if you put this machine through a hard life.. If not, it may last a long time with no issues too...
Welcome to a great Forum !
Good Luck !
Dan F
 
Here is a link to articles by Mike Phillips---- Car detailing articles by Mike Phillips - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum---- You can pick and choose those that seem to meet your needs--many have videos that will also help.

You will note in the beginning of the list that Mike also has a book you can purchase from Auto Geek that would also be helpful to you.

Regarding your specific situation--you might want to consider the new Meguiar's THIN pads and a 5" backing plate as mentioned by others. --- Meguiars 5 Inch DA Foam Discs --- The low profile reduces mass (as does the 5" size) so there is less mass for the polisher to rotate making it more effective. And as mentioned by others make sure you get enough pads per step: How many pads do I need to buff out my car? - Auto Geek Online Auto Detailing Forum
 
Simba5- Welcome to Autopia!

FWIW, I basically find "correction via PC2474" to be an exercise in frustration compared to doingit with a more potent polisher. Both of my PCs will probably never leave the shelf again. As you noticed, to get anything done with it you need to apply pressure yet said pressure stops the rotation and the PC merely jiggles.

Also, again just FWIW, I generally prefer to work smaller areas than the "usually recommended" 2'x2' when doing correction. At least when I'm not using a very capable machine. Numerous reasons why..and it might just be a personal preference, but that's what I keep coming back to- working relatively small areas.

If you can squeeze sealant out of your pad, IMO you're using *WAY* too much product. No upside to that ;) If you use more than maybe half an ounce to do something the size of the 300 you're using too much.

The pads shouldn't be junk unless they remain so loaded with product that it interferes with the next use. With a compound that'd mean dried compound that can mar up the paint so yeah that could be a real issue. With the sealant it's mainly a case of the dried residual product potentially dusting like crazy.

BTW, I clean my compounding/polishing pads *VERY* frequently. I'd never do a whole panel without thoroughly cleaning out the pad..seldom even half a panel. And that's even with my using at least as many pads as Stokdgs!
 
Appreciate the info! I just got 6 more 6" pads to add to the 8 I have - wish I'd seen this first and got the 5" but it is what it is. They should be better then the ones I have - these are Cobras and I have Lake Country??
The PC should be fine for what I need to do - My Vette is not bad as far as deep scratches or anything like that. Been winning shows like it is - just drives me nuts to have all the little fine micro scratches in it from wiping with microfiber towels and waterless wash when I get to the shows. My other DD's are all 10 years + old and all over 100k miles, and all get washed at the auto car washes. Not that big a deal there - but they make good practice dummies..LOL
I would love to be able to apply sealer by hand - but that is one of my issues - I'm a baggage handler by trade for over 17 years, and my hands hurt like he!! all the time. Got the PC to try to alleviate the hand work a bit. I used Chadwicks Triple Play this year to keep from all the waxing, etc - decent shine but not as deep as I want and still have fine scratches. SO - going this way to see how the polish correction and sealer works for me...
I've read and watched some of Mike Phillips stuff already. Still reading and researching..
Still haven't gotten an answer to this question: is multiple applications of sealer better, and if so how long do I need to wait between coats?
 
Simba5 said:
Appreciate the info! I just got 6 more 6" pads to add to the 8 I have - wish I'd seen this first and got the 5" but it is what it is. They should be better then the ones I have - these are Cobras and I have Lake Country??
The PC should be fine for what I need to do - My Vette is not bad as far as deep scratches or anything like that. Been winning shows like it is - just drives me nuts to have all the little fine micro scratches in it from wiping with microfiber towels and waterless wash when I get to the shows. My other DD's are all 10 years + old and all over 100k miles, and all get washed at the auto car washes. Not that big a deal there - but they make good practice dummies..LOL
I would love to be able to apply sealer by hand - but that is one of my issues - I'm a baggage handler by trade for over 17 years, and my hands hurt like he!! all the time. Got the PC to try to alleviate the hand work a bit. I used Chadwicks Triple Play this year to keep from all the waxing, etc - decent shine but not as deep as I want and still have fine scratches. SO - going this way to see how the polish correction and sealer works for me...
I've read and watched some of Mike Phillips stuff already. Still reading and researching..
Still haven't gotten an answer to this question: is multiple applications of sealer better, and if so how long do I need to wait between coats?
Click to expand...

To answer your question regarding Sealers, it would come down to which of a hundred sealers are you referring to, so we can see if any of those have been used before here..
Like everything else, there are good ones and not so good ones, so please advise what you are using, going to use, or thinking about using, and we can come back..

No problem using a dedicated pad to apply your LSP, just try to clean it out with a good pad cleaner, and go with it...

I had the worst pain in my hands and arms from severe carpal tunnel issues until I had microsurgery done by a hand surgeon, and after a brief time to heal, I have been absolutely pain free for years...
What happened to me is that all the carpal tunnels in my arms and fingers were closed down on the tendons that need to slide through them, so this awesome Doctor cleaned out the tunnels at the point of greatest blockage, and wow, its like being 20years old again.. I can do anything and never ever have had that nasty pain that I took hundreds of naproxen, etc., for, and never go long lasting relief..

And similarly, I got it from years of using big power tools, etc., never once thinking what this was going to eventually do to me.. :)
Dan F
 
Stokdgs said:
To answer your question regarding Sealers, it would come down to which of a hundred sealers are you referring to, so we can see if any of those have been used before here..
Like everything else, there are good ones and not so good ones, so please advise what you are using, going to use, or thinking about using, and we can come back..

No problem using a dedicated pad to apply your LSP, just try to clean it out with a good pad cleaner, and go with it...

I had the worst pain in my hands and arms from severe carpal tunnel issues until I had microsurgery done by a hand surgeon, and after a brief time to heal, I have been absolutely pain free for years...
What happened to me is that all the carpal tunnels in my arms and fingers were closed down on the tendons that need to slide through them, so this awesome Doctor cleaned out the tunnels at the point of greatest blockage, and wow, its like being 20years old again.. I can do anything and never ever have had that nasty pain that I took hundreds of naproxen, etc., for, and never go long lasting relief..

And similarly, I got it from years of using big power tools, etc., never once thinking what this was going to eventually do to me.. :)
Dan F
Click to expand...

Yes I've been killing my hands and body for 35+ years now. Never had a job or hobby that didn't. Farming, wrenching, fabricating, delivering, truck driving, baggage handling, shooting, softball, golf, etc... Not sure if the carpal tunnel thing will work for me and afraid to go to the doc and see. Too much to do to be sidelined for any amount of time..
As to the sealer - I got Wolfgang Deep Gloss 3.0. It is a complimentary product to the Menzerna sg400 and sg4000 I got.
 
Simba5 said:
The PC should be fine for what I need to do - My Vette is not bad as far as deep scratches or anything like that. Been winning shows like it is - just drives me nuts to have all the little fine micro scratches in it from wiping with microfiber towels and waterless wash when I get to the shows...
Click to expand...


I gotta say that I disagree with ya there...if it simply doesn't do the job in a time/effort-efficient manner then it's not the right tool. And there's no way I could ever get GM clear good enough via PC. Just my 2¢, hope I don't sound like an argumentative [jerk]. More importantly, I find the PC to be *VERY* bad with regard to causing/aggravating any physical issues...pretty much bottom of the barrel in that regard. I basically don't have such problems *unless* I use my PCs! For Comparison, I can run my other polishers for hours/days with zero such issues.

Still haven't gotten an answer to this question: is multiple applications of sealer better, and if so how long do I need to wait between coats?
Click to expand...

IME most sealants don't benefit all that much, if at all, from multiple applications. Sorry, no experience with the Wolfgang. I'd wait at least a day, even though I suspect the usual "wait 24 hours" advice is merely a convenient generalization with little basis in fact. After two applications/coats I'd just wait a while before doing more.
 
Simba5 said:
Yes I've been killing my hands and body for 35+ years now. Never had a job or hobby that didn't. Farming, wrenching, fabricating, delivering, truck driving, baggage handling, shooting, softball, golf, etc... Not sure if the carpal tunnel thing will work for me and afraid to go to the doc and see. Too much to do to be sidelined for any amount of time..
Click to expand...

If your hands/wrists are bothering you I would seriosly consider a Rupes15 or Griots Boss 15. I started with a Griots GG6 and it has done everything I've asked of it with a 5" backing plate, 5.5" pads and the right polishes. Never had a problem correcting hard VW clear, but the thought of not having to put 15 lbs of pressure on the polisher drove me to purchase a Boss 15. Well the difference is unbelievable--almost vibration free and the capability of using little to no pressure while polishing makes a world of difference--can polish for hours without a break. And the long throw has cut the number of passes required almost in half. Now my GG6 is mounted with a 3.5" backing plate and 4" pads to tackle the tight bits without the need to stop and change backing plates. As ShawnF350 said "Your hands will thank you for it"
 
pwaug- If you long-throw polisher fans keep this up I'm gonna start thinking I need to get one :o Seems like *everybody* who uses a Rupes or a GG Boss thinks it's the [stuff]!
 
Accumulator said:
pwaug- If you long-throw polisher fans keep this up I'm gonna start thinking I need to get one :o Seems like *everybody* who uses a Rupes or a GG Boss thinks it's the [stuff]!
Click to expand...

To add more fuel to the fire---initially I was using the G15 with my existing B&S 5.5" pads and it was a fantastic difference in smoothness compared to the GG6. This past weekend (I detail on weekends bkz retirees avoid the crowds on the weekends) I had a chance to use it with some new pads (coming out at SEMA) designed specifically for long throw polishers and it was even smoother with even less vibration.
 
Simba5--just to let you know AutoGeek has a 2 day sale of 15% off Griots products. I'll bet you could get Autopia to match the price.
 
I took your guys advice and looked at the Griot Boss and Rupes. They look great - but I simply cannot afford them. (been out of contract for 4 years and no raise in 5 at my work) Maybe one of these days...
So for now I will have to work with what I have....
 
Simba5- Have you tried 4" plate/pad combos on your PC? That was the only way I could get anything done with mine, and at least it let me accomplish something.
 
No - only the 6" ones. I used it Friday to put a coat of wax on my old beater truck, took the handle off, and used the backing plate with attached pad that came with it. It is rotating and I had less problems keeping it rotating. It surely is sensitive about being flat to the surface however as far as rotation goes. It got cold here - so maybe if it warms up a bit I will try doing a section on the Vette with the good stuff and see how it goes.. The Cobra pads I got the other day are thinner then the Lake Country ones I had, maybe that will help too.
 
Simba5- Good move taking off the handle (I always remove them).

See how it goes, but IME the 6" pad is just too much surface area (and thus too much friction/resistance) for that polisher to handle.
 
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