Are carnuaba waxes an obsoleted car-care product?? (Continuing on the great debate...)

So what am I after?

I want max durability with tight beading and an optically accurate reflection that is as distortion free as possible.

I like a coating that is self cleaning to the greatest extent possible to make maintenance washes easy and allow rain to give it a good rinsing. Also makes tar and bird bombs easy to remove.

I want it to be as easy to apply as possible and not be priced to crazy.

Accumulator said:
And that subjective element makes all the difference IMO! Since none of this stuff is life-and-death critical, it's all about whatever makes ya happy.

I am curious about just what, specifically, you meant by "not what I am after"...hard for me to pinpoint it since I brought up so many things! As I said, I find this an interesting discussion, especially since different people value different things.
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JSFM35X- Thanks for explaining! Those sound like the kind of characteristics that sold me on the FK1000P, though it won't last (quite) as long as a good coating. I often get by with just a rinsing (as opposed to a regular wash) and I no longer bother to clean off bird-bombs as they've never etched through that product (famous last words, probably jinx myself if I keep posting that).

I'm right there with you about wanting something that's easy/Accumulator-proof and doesn't need redone every few months! Hope you find the perfect product for ya.
 
JSFM35X said:
Waxes don't last that why I reapply so often. I was using p21s 100%. Waxes hold dirt and debris. Re waxing on top of contamination look like hell to me. Ever see a girl who put nail polish over nail polish. Yuch. It a mess and I don't do mess. When I was waxing and I did for years I would always wash mad clay then quick polish to remove any micro marring and wax. This was before there were iron removal products.

Not with coatings I extend out all the labor intense stuff because the coatings last so long.

To each their own.
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To each his own is right. Waxes don't last, but they last long enough for most of us. I'm sure most will agree that waxes re-applied after a good wash don't "look like hell", and certainly not a "mess". Careful washing is key.

When you do decon-clay-polish every 3 weeks, yes that is certainly labor-intensive and would take the fun out of all of this. It looks like coating is targeted at people like you. And yes it always comes down to it being to each his own. Like Accumulator said, this is not life-or-death critical, and it's not even remotely important in the grand scheme of things. My wife and family would start to laugh when I start talking about this stuff. :)
 
Thanks

Truthfully, I am pretty happy with EXO. Not sure why there's not more of it posted on the forums. I don't work for them btw but it gives me almOst what I want but I still want more durability. If it lasted 3 years, I'd want 4. Thats my problem. Good enough never is. Plus I enjoy trying new products as they prove not to be snake oil.

Opticoat 2.0 was good as well. Just no slickness is my only peeve. I like to touch the car with the back of my hand and feel a slick surface.( ya I'm weird) I like beads over sheeting.

Have a good afternoon.

Accumulator said:
JSFM35X- Thanks for explaining! Those sound like the kind of characteristics that sold me on the FK1000P, though it won't last (quite) as long as a good coating. I often get by with just a rinsing (as opposed to a regular wash) and I no longer bother to clean off bird-bombs as they've never etched through that product (famous last words, probably jinx myself if I keep posting that).

I'm right there with you about wanting something that's easy/Accumulator-proof and doesn't need redone every few months! Hope you find the perfect product for ya.
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I thought about coatings and I'm just not sold on them. Why? Well, from my research it seems you need to buy a special cleaner to prep the paint, then there is the application process with special techniques and pads, then there is the weather, curing, and then there are the booster - either QD or wash or both. If you add up the costs and figure the learning curve, it's a turn off for guys like me, you know, keep it simple Sam.
I was a sealer guy and loved BFWD and Menzies PL, and looking to try Prima Epic, but, I can't dismiss how good my car looks when I use Pinnacle Souveran, CG 50-50, or AGHD. I am seriously considering Collinite 915, supposed to last and look good. The thing that is holding me back is I tried their liquid wax and hated it.
 
If you ever want to talk pm me. People like to over complicate the process. If you can correct the paint that is the hardest part. Allocation is easy but you do new to be shown or at least see a detailed YouTube. Special cleaner. I use Ipa or eraser after polishing. I have used all types of wash and I don't top or coat my coatings. I also let them cure 1 day in the garage. That's all.

Toe it's worth it.

Junebug said:
I thought about coatings and I'm just not sold on them. Why? Well, from my research it seems you need to buy a special cleaner to prep the paint, then there is the application process with special techniques and pads, then there is the weather, curing, and then there are the booster - either QD or wash or both. If you add up the costs and figure the learning curve, it's a turn off for guys like me, you know, keep it simple Sam.
I was a sealer guy and loved BFWD and Menzies PL, and looking to try Prima Epic, but, I can't dismiss how good my car looks when I use Pinnacle Souveran, CG 50-50, or AGHD. I am seriously considering Collinite 915, supposed to last and look good. The thing that is holding me back is I tried their liquid wax and hated it.
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I have clients that like carnauba waxes, I have clients that want sealants and just 1 who wanted to try a coating (I applied CAR Products Bulletproof to his Explorer Sport Trac)

There will always be a place of all three LSP's.

I like Mike Phillip's philosophy...
"Find something you like and use it!"
 
I detail everyday, daily driver cars/trucks/SUV's and I try to correct the paint to a point that looks good and will make the owner happy. I get some pretty old and abused rides and these get the "as good as it gets without a repaint" I am not a wizard! I would say that just dirt and oxidation make up the majority, and these guys I try hard to get on a quarterly wash and wax schedule. The scratched to hell from the autospa guys rarely become regular customers cause I charge more and those morons think clean and shiny is wonderful and you have to point out scratches/ swirls to them; had one guy think they were supposed to look like that....
So, for me it's cost effective to use any product that will last 3 months.
By the way, I hit 56 this year and doing corrections don't have the fun factor they use to have, I can make the same money doing maintenance wash and waxes and not work as hard. I have had 4 disc in my lower back rupture in the past and those be-otches act up after a lot of buffer work. This past year I had finally got to detail a bunch of garage queens, used Amigo and Souveran.
 
If I was a pro detailer I'd do what the client wanted for sure. I am posting my opinion only.

DaGonz said:
I have clients that like carnauba waxes, I have clients that want sealants and just 1 who wanted to try a coating (I applied CAR Products Bulletproof to his Explorer Sport Trac)

There will always be a place of all three LSP's.

I like Mike Phillip's philosophy...
"Find something you like and use it!"
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JSFM35X said:
Opticoat 2.0 was good as well. Just no slickness is my only peeve. I like to touch the car with the back of my hand and feel a slick surface.( ya I'm weird) I like beads over sheeting.

Have a good afternoon.
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Yeah, I have OptiCoat 2.0 on some wheels, and it's not bad stuff by any means.

And yeah#2, I too have a *BIG* thing about slickness and I also prefer beading, no matter what the "here's why sheeting is better.." crowd might say.
 
For you own car, what your go to LSP?

Accumulator said:
Yeah, I have OptiCoat 2.0 on some wheels, and it's not bad stuff by any means.

And yeah#2, I too have a *BIG* thing about slickness and I also prefer beading, no matter what the "here's why sheeting is better.." crowd might say.
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JSFM35X said:
For you own car, what your go to LSP?
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LONG-WINDED answer as my wife and I have a few vehicles (currently down to six, which is still one too many):

The older cars with seriously imperfect paint get waxes ('85 Jag XJS- Souveran, '93 Audi V8- 476S) also my wife's daily-driver ('00 Audi A8- M16). My garage-queen '01 Audi S8- 4Star UPP (will redo with FK1000P some day). My usual drivers ('00 Tahoe Z71 and '08 Crown Vic P71) get FK1000P.

SO..I guess the short answer is FK1000P. Sooner or later I'll apply that to everything except the Jag and the V8, but I don't want to redo the newer Audis until they really need enough work to bother.
 
Sweet rides, you have good taste in cars. With all those Audi's I now see why to opticoat the wheels-Lol

I still have brake dust under my finger nails from Audi's I detailed in high school and out of high school since 84.

Post up some pics of the S8. That luxury/sports beast.

I was recently in a S6 and it was unbelievable.

Is the FK1000P slick? Besides the EXO the slickest LSP I have ever used was BFWD. Loved that stuff as well.

My Mom had an 1985 XJS. It was a great car, and comfortable. Don't park nose downhill without setting the parking brake before putting the shifter into park. I took it to the city one night, and parked in a garage. The guy parked it on a ramp because I gave him a few bucks and told him no dings please. When I went to retrieve the car he told me he could not get the gear lever into drive or reverse. We had to get a bunch of guys to put pressure on the front and get the pressure off the parking pin so it could be shifted out of park. Not a fun night for me but it all worked out.
Accumulator said:
LONG-WINDED answer as my wife and I have a few vehicles (currently down to six, which is still one too many):

The older cars with seriously imperfect paint get waxes ('85 Jag XJS- Souveran, '93 Audi V8- 476S) also my wife's daily-driver ('00 Audi A8- M16). My garage-queen '01 Audi S8- 4Star UPP (will redo with FK1000P some day). My usual drivers ('00 Tahoe Z71 and '08 Crown Vic P71) get FK1000P.

SO..I guess the short answer is FK1000P. Sooner or later I'll apply that to everything except the Jag and the V8, but I don't want to redo the newer Audis until they really need enough work to bother.
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JSFM35X- Heh heh, as I just told Swanicyouth in another thead, I don't do the digital imaging thing, no pics of my stuff on the internet (and [darn] few pics of me either, I'm cyber-paranoid like you can't imagine).

Yeah, the S8 is my idea of a perfect car, and my wife feels the same way about her A8. Wouldn't take newer ones if you gave them to us, though I *would* like a new S8's engine/drivetrain in mine if it were possible :wub: We were lucky to buy them both before they made changes that we don't like. Oh man would I hate to buy one of those things used, they can take a bit of maintenance/servicing and I feel better having them from new (the '93 belonged to a friend, so I know all its history).

Yes indeed, the XJS has its quirks! I got mine new and it still has under 20K miles though it racked up those few miles as a daily driver before I got more cars. Luckily, while mine is a "story car" in many ways those issues are all cosmetic and it has *NEVER* let me down, a remarkably trouble free car for what it is.

Oddly enough, the Audis don't drive me nuts with brakedust, not even the V8 with its BBS wheels. Get this- the Audis are *not* the cars with coated wheels! I coated the ones on the Tahoe, and on a recently sold older Crown Vic (supercharged sleeper, still kinda miss that one). One of these days I'll coat more of 'em, but for now I'm doing fine with just LSPing them now and then. Brakedust washes right off with FK1000P on them.

The FK1000P is *almost* as slick as the UPP, which is probably the slickest I've used. After a single wash it's a toss-up and the UPP needs redone after a second wash IMO.

All this talk kinda makes me want to redo the S8 with FK1000P, but it's mothballed for the winter.
 
JSFM35X said:
..I was recently in a S6 and it was unbelievable..
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My Audi dealer *just* dropped off a '14 A6 S-line to use as a service loaner while they have the A8!

Nice throttle response, and the heated steering wheel is nice given today's weather. But overall the best I can say is that I don't have to clean it so we'll take it out in the snow and salt. Weird brake feel and all those high-tech "features" bug me.

We usually just leave their new-Audi loaners parked in the driveway while we drive our cars.
 
Accumulator,

Could you give a detailed description of what fk1000p looks like? I'm not worried about its durability, however looks are very important to me. I know it's all in the polishing but I do find that lsps can enhance, brighten, deepen, etc so they do have a visual Impact.
 
mystickid said:
Accumulator,

Could you give a detailed description of what fk1000p looks like? I'm not worried about its durability, however looks are very important to me. I know it's all in the polishing but I do find that lsps can enhance, brighten, deepen, etc so they do have a visual Impact.
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That can be tough to do...describe its look...but I'll try.

Bright, shiny, glossy, reflective. NO DEPTH OR JETTING. Looks great on light metallics and on modern white vehicles IMO (for an old white car I might want a different "period correct" look). If you have any Q about whether it's the right look for a dark or red vehicle then skip it.

I put it on a Granite Metallic (metallic black) Yukon I used to have and I didn't really like it compared to the Collinite I'd used previously. Decided to live with it anyhow for the durability. Wouldn't you know, people kept coming up to me in parking lots, shouting out windows at intersections, etc. to compliment it! It looked so shiny to those non-Autopians that they simply loved it. But *YOU* on the other hand, would've simply hated it. Oddly enough, after I lived with it fora while (and maybe my recollection of the Collinite faded..) I came to really like it myself! But eh, that's just me.

SO, for a guy like you: YES for silver/white/light metallics; NO on darker, richer colors.
 
Collinite 915 is FK1000p for dark colors, hypothetically speaking. I mean, it's two different companies, but you know what I mean. It lasts and lasts like a workhorse but looks like a beauty-wax.
 
WaxAddict- I can believe that. I've used 476S on a pal's showcar and had "experts" mistake it for a boutique wax, so the 915 oughta be great on dark colors. I never had Collinite last anywhere near as long as the FK, but there are a lot of variables in play.
 
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