What reasons caused the detailing association to fail?

[Scottwax]

Would this be the fundatmental purpose for why a detailing association should exist in the first place? To be focused on ourselves, the detailers?

Yes. It is pretty obvious to me that the average person doesn`t view detailing as a very complex job so they don`t worry about a detailer being certified. They do seem to care much more about word of mouth reputation.

How would you define why a detailing association should exist and what would be your focused view of its fundatmental purpose?

It should focus on our insurance, tax, marketing and regulation needs. I find Autopia more useful in keeping up with the detailing aspect of the business. New products and techniques are here more quickly than they would be in a monthly newsletter.

[Scottwax]

Why not? What about all the damage done to cars by losers and idiots who are untrained. Take a "wheel" to a car with some "magic mix compound" and put a bunch of holograms into the 2nd most expensive part of the car. I think if people knew what really went into detailing instead of just washing, waxing, vaccuuming, and shampooing they would demand people get certified. Especially when they learned about the damage that can be done by people who don`t know what they`re doing.

People already accept crap work from their new car dealer.



There will always be cheap hackers for the cheapskate customers even with a certification process. Like I said earlier, the average person can wash and wax their car well enough for it to look good to them, so they don`t view detailing as a particularly technical profession requiring certification.



Personally, I don`t have time to educate Joe-Sixpack on the virtues of using a quality detailer. I prefer to focus on my target customer base. People who have high expecations of themselves. They are the ones who recognize our dedication to the profession and are willing to pay more to get a quality detail.

[BobD]

I think they failed do to bad management is all. They complained about members complaining and not doing anything. Like I said in another post, I got the PDTA discounts at vistaprint.com, I offered to help rebuild and run the forums. The vistaprint discount was never printed on the discount pages and nobody would contact me about doing the forums. They just said thanks, we appreciate the offer and they kept doing what they where doing. I in all honesty, feel robbed.



Here is why I think a certification program will not be a good idea. For every autopian detailing there are hundreds or car dealerships and fast paced detail shops. My guess is any certification program would cater to the masses. So when you go to class to get certified you learn how to fill in swirls with a high speed. I know tons of certified body technicians, painters, and mechanics that I would not let touch my car. I think a detiling certificate would be about the same way.

[imported_mirrorfinishman]

It is my belief, that certification is one of the biggest things plagueing this industry.



Until we get certification, we`re all on our own.

It sounds like the idea of establishing standardized information thru certification would need to start with someone or some official body. That looks like it leads us back to the need for some type of detailing association.

[imported_Totoland Mach]

I envision an organization that has a certification process as well (easy to do through digital pictures)



More importantly, having an association that advertises and promotes detailing using certified people. The ads could be placed in national magazines such as Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc...and direct the consumer to a Pro Detailing Web Site. Once on the site, the user could enter their zip code and it would bring up available detailers in their area. Each detailer could post particulars of their work and also list what type of business they have: Seasonal, Year `Round, Mobile, Full Shop, Driveway, etc.



The association could also serve as a sounding board for business practices that work.



I belong to several professional associations in my Mon-Fri job and the overall objective is to bring customers to the individual. Once this is established, all the other ideas start to fall in place.



Scottwax is 100% right about detailing information. Autopia is the "go-to" site for up to the minute ideas and products. As well as a few other places. But the average consumer doesn`t have a clue where to look (yellow book notwithstanding). Word of mouth is how most of us get customers, but I`m always on the lookout for car enthusiasts that care more about quality than price.



Totoland Mach

[BA_Titan]

If I could say something from a Non-Pro view? Most people have NO idea what it takes to "detail" a car. Majority don`t care. You have to remember that Autopians are a VERY small minority. Ask the general public and you will find they don`t give a crap about detailing.



Being "certified" really doesn`t mean much in the publics` eye. It`s only as good as the "certifier" and who is going to take the time to find out how You got your certification?



It`s rampant in my industry (computers) and all you have to do is pass some tests.... Doesn`t really mean you know what you are doing.......Kinda like flying a plane.... I passed the simulator!!! Wanna go flying with me? :nervous:

[BobD]

If I could say something from a Non-Pro view? Most people have NO idea what it takes to "detail" a car. Majority don`t care. You have to remember that Autopians are a VERY small minority. Ask the general public and you will find they don`t give a crap about detailing.



Being "certified" really doesn`t mean much in the publics` eye. It`s only as good as the "certifier" and who is going to take the time to find out how You got your certification?



It`s rampant in my industry (computers) and all you have to do is pass some tests.... Doesn`t really mean you know what you are doing.......Kinda like flying a plane.... I passed the simulator!!! Wanna go flying with me? :nervous:

Agreed. i was going to say that most people just want their car cleaned and looking better than when they gave it to you. At least in my area. I used to get so mad hearing people say. "Well Jim Bob`s Detailing down the road will do it for half the price and that is both interior and exterior." Then I would have to explain why my services are better. Then they go down to Jim Bob`s anyway. So, what I have done is added a cheap fast detail. I just use a one step on the paint for those details. You know what? Sure, I hate not removing the defects, but I get a LOT more people wanting the "cheap" detail and have never heard them complain when they get their cars back.

[BA_Titan]

Danase.... Exactly!



An association would be for the Detailers not the public.

The public will want to know. "How much and how long is it going to take?"

not that you are certified.

[Junebug]

As a guy just starting out - Detailing is my side job, my weekend work to help support my family, I run into people that want their cars cleaned and most have no idea the work it takes. I do spend time with them to point out what problems they have and I show them what I`m going to use and about how long it will take. They might not understand it, but they nod along and send me more customers. I`m 47, and I take my time, one car per Saturday is my limit. I usually spend 5 hours on every job, did double that on a Beemer with bad scratches (before I got my Makita). I use professional products and with each detail - I learn a trick or two to save time and get the same results. One thing that helps is to know when to quit, you CAN make a 10 year old Blazer look like a show car, but WHY!?

I get people that appreciate my time, they know they can go to the guy at the Auto Spa or call a mobile detailer, but they understand my focus is on the job, NOT how fast I can do it so I can get the next one. The only thing that I wish was available is some kind of cross referrence chart for all the products.

[imported_mirrorfinishman]

More importantly, having an association that advertises and promotes detailing using certified people. The ads could be placed in national magazines such as Car & Driver, Road & Track, etc...and direct the consumer to a Pro Detailing Web Site.

Is this really one of the reasons why the association failed?



Was consumer awareness ever part of their mission?

[imported_Totoland Mach]

Is this really one of the reasons why the association failed?



Was consumer awareness ever part of their mission?

I don`t know if that was a reason for failure, but it was my reason for not becoming a member. And, possibly, it was the reason for many people that visit detailing forums not to join.



I think consumer connection is the biggest reason for an association`s mission. To provide a central point of contact for a consumer to access the detailer in their area, and to have the assurance the detailer will meet a set of standards established by the association.



As I said earlier, most if not all our new business is referral from existing customers and this association could expand that business with marketing in the manner I described.



To form an effective association, there has to be a "value" to the detailer that is considering joining.



Totoland Mach

[Bob G]

I remember back in 1985 when I joined ICA and attended my first carwash convention with detailing semineers. I was very excited and was a member till 2003 when I felt the wheels of ICA were spinning and the wear abouts of support for the detailer operation became less important to cater to. I attended a meeting in Vegas at one of the conventions that the President of ICA came to listen to and ask for ideas. Only my self and two other detail operators showed up , that is when I knew we were in trouble.



I was also a member of the Southern California Professional detailers association till its merge with ICA . We would of been better on our own ICA killed off what chance we had to grow and make headway.



Bob Geco

Support ICAR training

[BobD]

Well, the PDTA is back and the look is a little better. Welcome Page



The thing that ticks me off is that they closed the boards and site to rebuild and never told anyone?!?!? I sure missed that memo. And why close a site down to rebuild it? You could rebuilt the entire site and leave the old one up and then just switch to the new one once it is done. Maybe my questions are answered in the new forums. We shall see.



Maybe it is just me but I can not even get to any forums. Anyone else?

[BobD]

I guess the forums will be up in a few days. Here is the response I got from them:

"Bob:



Thanks for your email, no they are not up at this time. I was working on this last night and will try to get the new forum up in the next few days. I appreciate your patients with this process, I promise it will be well worth the wait.



Any other quesions, please let me know,



Thanks for your support



Diana Bean"

[BobD]

Not digging the new PDTA at all. The new forums are messy and hard to navigate and follow. The old PDTA asked me to offer a discount to the members and the new PDTA won`t let me offer it without paying for some sort of advertising.