Newbie with M105

**BradE** · 01-16-2002, 02:23 PM

The dust pickup is a strange issue. Most poymer sealants have very low dust pickup. Makes you wonder if Blackfire has some oil content to be picking up that much dust.??

**Lemonxxs** · 01-16-2002, 02:27 PM

I reread about blackfire on the CMA site and I could only find two occurances of the word slick from them. It was hard to find.

It was mentioned about using the QD to make the surface slick or something like that. Maybe Blackfire is not slick to begin with???

Just tossing something out there to think about.

**Lemonxxs** · 01-16-2002, 02:31 PM

Here is one spot I read in the FAQ section but that and in the application guide is the only mention.

BLACKFIRE All Finish Paint Protection creates a very slick surface that sheets water to reduce water spots. All carnauba waxes hold beads of water on the surface. Using a carnauba wax over All Finish Paint Protection will increase the likelihood of water spots.

**BradE** · 01-16-2002, 02:35 PM

Well that is true. BlackFire does create a slick surface, the problem it that is does not maintain it.

**Steve @ Guru** · 01-16-2002, 02:43 PM

I`m letting the cat out of the bag, but we`re dying here at thewaxtest.com to start testing again...over the weekend we started conducting abrasiveness tests and we measured the pH levels of various wash solutions, to check for acidity/alkalinity - we`re searching for a very neutral car wash.

A certain wash product appears to have a pretty high alkaline level - higher than we would have thought, which could affect the quality of the protectant after a wash. Our method for testing is not highly scientific; we simply pour the prescribed amount into a bucket, fill it with lukewarm water, agitate it, and then measure with litmus strips.

I hate to tease, but I`ve got to save the "good stuff" for our site; just thought I`d share some of this info with "y`all".

Oh, and I agree with Shinnster - BF is very easy to apply, especially with a PC, which is what I liked about it too.

**imported_MikeB** · 01-16-2002, 02:58 PM

I`ve been using BF for a few weeks now. I polished and layered on two coats of the protectant. I deliberately skipped the vertical surface of my trunk.

Intially the treated paint felt just as oily and slick as carnuba. After the intial wash, the oily feeling was significantly diminished. However, compared the untreated surface, the paint still felt extremely clean and smooth. Perhaps soft is a better description.

After several washes and nightly QD`ing with BF, the oily feeling is gone for the most part. However the clean, smooth feeling remains while the trunk feels very coarse to the touch. With my fingers I can clearly feel the transition from protected paint to unprotected paint. Though it doesn`t exhibit the oily feeling anymore, the paint remains extremely smooth and soft to the tough.

When QD`ing, the dirt and dust comes right off and there is not a swirl to be found. The BF QD spray is easy to apply and comes off streak free, even in cold temps.

The only other product I have used on this car is Meguires Gold Class. BF clearly outlasts that product and produces a softer feel to the paint.

My .02

**shinnster** · 01-16-2002, 04:29 PM

Intermezzo330I: QD does revive the shine and slickness to some degree. but it does not bring it back to the just applied slickness or shine.

The water still beaded and sheeted. So i believe that the product is still protecting, i just have some problems as to the slickness. If it isn`t slick and attracts dust, then even if it`s protected it`ll look dirty and just get dirty more easily.

**William420** · 01-16-2002, 06:56 PM

Interm - My QD experience coincides with shinnster. While helpful but very little to the shine and slickness. To me it`s not Z6 on Zaino. Maybe that`s the problem. I am constantly comparing it with Zaino. They are different products and may perform differently so I should not have same expectation. It doesn`t bother me much though since my cars get waxed often, and this gives me an excuse to experience with carnauba topper on BF.

Waxman, I`m using BF soap and the paint was properly polished with BF Polish prior to the paint protection. In fact, polish was done 2 times. The paint was in fairly new condition to begin with (new car with only 25 miles on the clock when BF was applied). Like you said, a few people with problem doesn`t mean there`s anything wrong with BF. There are people with good results. Mine seem to hold up better when more coats are been layered.

**jps** · 01-16-2002, 08:57 PM

Well, I have endured several weeks of crud now on top of BF. Washed probably 8 times, several times at a touchless wash (after all, it is Minnesota...)

I am rather pleased with how the look has held up. The car by no means looks or feels like it did when first detailed, but all in all its pretty good. If I had a chance to do again, I would have topped the BF with Zaino for the winter though.

I think using the BF QD does help, but at below freezing temps I have a lot of trouble with the QD hazing.

I would summarize my observations with BF:

the polish is fantastic,

the protectant looks superb when fresh, and maintains reasonably well,

the QD helps maintain the look,

using BF wash also helps maintain the look better than other car wash soaps.

**JonB** · 01-16-2002, 09:37 PM

I happened to pick up some ZFX and a few other Zaino products today from a local distributor. I parked my BF`d Mustang next to his Z`d Mustang. Mine is dark green and his is sort of silver but maybe a bit bronze tint. Anyways, his car looked a little like plastic coated next to mine. Maybe it was because his was a year or two newer than mine. I swiped a finger over both hoods and could not tell the difference. Maybe I am slickness challenged... I am going to do wash number 2, since every time I take a drive lately, it decides to have a 1 minute passing shower, or else the sprinklers are on like running a gauntlet out of my neighborhood! As far as dust is concerned, yeah, its about as dusty as both my other cars.....Klasse and Zaino. I can`t tell the difference. Again, maybe I am "dust" challenged?? The Z is for the bimmer. I really like the way Klasse looks, but am put off by the haze problem. I originally thought I liked the way Klasse darkened the paint slightly, but now that I can see the original metalic green, well, I like it better with the BF. The jury is still out on BF though, and the Z looks good on steel gray, so it gets the go ahead....for now.

One other good thing happened when I picked up my Zaino. The guy works in an auto radio shop for his "day" job. He made my cigarette lighter plug switch on and off with the ignition, so now I don`t have to worry about turning it off and draining the battery. Don`t want it direct wired, because I remove it depending on where and when I park it. All it cost me was one YoSteve MF! Apparently, he had never even heard of microfiber towels....

Can you imagine?? What`s with these Zaino guys.......

H

**imported_BretFraz** · 01-16-2002, 10:31 PM

"Slickness challenged"? "Dust challenged"? I`m worried about you.

FWIW, I am very happy with BF. I`m using it with a Souveran topper for a little more depth and a lot more slickness. As I`ve posted before, the lack of slickness is my only complaint about BF.

I was glad to see William420 go the extra step and remark that his observations about BF are competing with his experience from using Zaino. This is more of the objective comparisons we need; from people who have or are using both side-by-side.

BF is giving me everything I want in a car care product.

**DETAILKING** · 01-17-2002, 12:00 AM

<blockquote class=`ipsBlockquote` >

<em class=`bbc`>Originally posted by bretfraz [/i]
[BI`m using it with a Souveran topper for a little more depth and a lot more slickness[/B]</blockquote>
Brett, just curious if you are covering up BF with souveran, how you are evaluating it`s performance?

**imported_BretFraz** · 01-17-2002, 08:06 PM

I`m observing the Souveran`s performance from a few angles:

1. Ability to bead water

2. The towel-squeek test

3. Visible swirls over time, especially after washing

The Souveran has been on the BF for about 8 weeks now. Initially the water beaded extremely well. I have noticed a gradual degradation of the beading after each wash. But during rain showers the beads are still small and tight.

The towel test creates very little squeeking but that too is degrading (more squeeks every week.......Squeeks by the week???? Oh brother

)

Swirls too are gradually appearing but nothing alarming. The hood has 4 coats of BF polish while the rest of the car has 2. The entire car has 2 coats of BF protectant and 2 coats of Souveran. All panels look very similar.

I expect in another month most of the Souveran will be gone but past experience has proved to me that Souveran does offer some protection as long as 6 months between applications. It lasted demonstrably longer than Blitz, Eagle One carnauba, or Meguiar`s #26.

**imported_camaroz28** · 01-17-2002, 09:37 PM

I have noticed that when I had 3 layers of KSG on my truck, the paint wasn`t exactly smooth. Now that I have 1 layer, it is smoother. Maybe it`s just a characteric of polymers. What does Classic Motoring have to say? I just go my Blackfire in yesterday, however I won`t be able to apply until March. I am looking forward to using it, I hope it looks better than Klasse.