The "Truth"

**Deep Gloss Auto Salon** · 09-13-2012, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Thomas Dekany

I was training someone and he was using Menzerna products with the rotary - polishing and finishing pads. He switched to D300 and MF system to make sure that there were no holograms left behind.

I didn`t say anything about D300 being used with a rotary.

Gotcha... Your bolded wording wasn`t very clear to me

Originally Posted by Thomas Dekany

Hey Troy - I posted that I saw holograms coming back from using D300 to eliminate them. That is it. I never said it wasn`t a good product. But those holograms did come back. Obviously, if the user is working with a DA, that is not an issue. Barry had the same problem. No big deal, but I`d say it is good info for someone, who is a rotary user.

**Thomas Dekany** · 09-13-2012, 12:26 PM

I can assure you, the products were used properly.

Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn

Unless he`s saying he used D300 with a DA to eliminate holograms instilled by using a heavier compound via rotary, but that`s certainly not made clear. Even then, several of us have used D300 and NOT had defects come back or be hidden, so there`s no telling why some are having issues.

**C. Charles Hahn** · 09-13-2012, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Thomas Dekany

I can assure you, the products were used properly.

I get that you want to defend your skills/etc., but isn`t it possible that even you may need to tweak your technique a bit for a particular process or product?

No different than how I don`t care for the results UNO gives me, yet some like yourself get great results from it.

Of course it could also be an environmental factor, or the particular finish being worked on, etc.

Just saying....

**imported_RZJZA80** · 09-13-2012, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn

I get that you want to defend your skills/etc., but isn`t it possible that even you may need to tweak your technique a bit for a particular process or product?

No different than how I don`t care for the results UNO gives me, yet some like yourself get great results from it.

Of course it could also be an environmental factor, or the particular finish being worked on, etc.

Just saying....

Well said Charles, I suggested the same thing earlier in this thread. We never stop learning.

**Barry Theal** · 09-13-2012, 01:11 PM

Back to topic, Garry how is that video coming along? :buffing:

**Thomas Dekany** · 09-13-2012, 01:12 PM

Charles, do you actually read what I write?

I was training someone and he was using Menzerna products with the rotary - polishing and finishing pads. He switched to D300 and MF system to make sure that there were no holograms left behind.

It had nothing to do with skills. Certainly not mine. I wasn`t the one operating the rotary or the da polisher. The trainee created a perfect looking finish that wasn`t perfect looking a week later when I washed my car. Thankfully, he only did the trunk. I even took pictures to show him - but I can`t find them anymore. I used some UNO to get rid of the holograms with a polishing pad and there were no holograms, not even months and many washes later.

You guys are free to discredit me as a detailer, that is fine with me. However, if holograms come back, that would be due to the product covering. Call Barry he can tell you about his experience as well.

Now lets get back to Garry Deans video.

Originally Posted by C. Charles Hahn

I get that you want to defend your skills/etc., but isn`t it possible that even you may need to tweak your technique a bit for a particular process or product?

No different than how I don`t care for the results UNO gives me, yet some like yourself get great results from it.

Of course it could also be an environmental factor, or the particular finish being worked on, etc.

Just saying....

**C. Charles Hahn** · 09-13-2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Thomas Dekany

Charles, do you actually read what I write?

It had nothing to do with skills. Certainly not mine. I wasn`t the one operating the rotary or the da polisher. The trainee created a perfect looking finish that wasn`t perfect looking a week later when I washed my car. Thankfully, he only did the trunk. I even took pictures to show him - but I can`t find them anymore. I used some UNO to get rid of the holograms with a polishing pad and there were no holograms, not even months and many washes later.

You guys are free to discredit me as a detailer, that is fine with me. However, if holograms come back, that would be due to the product covering. Call Barry he can tell you about his experience as well.

Now lets get back to Garry Deans video.

Wow.... just wow.

**Barry Theal** · 09-13-2012, 01:53 PM

In case point since Thomas mentioned my name here. Like I said earlier, I personally feel every buffing liquid to an extent will fill a little because of the carrier oils in them. If the oils aren`t removed then they will be masking defects to an extent. I can say this about any competitors products, I don`t care if its 3D, 3M, Megs, Menzerna or what the company is. Its just nature of the beast. I personally was a tester of the DA Microfiber System and to this date for its intended purpose its a great system for any detailer or enthusiest. We all have prefrences and what works for you may not work for me. Back to the D300 Issue. I had guys using this system long before it was sold to the general public in my shop. Here is an image of a small batch Megs sent over to me as a part of the testing.

We ran this system hard for a few months and tested it auction cars and retail. We tried and trued every method possible. From machine variences to many manufactuers car paint. Mainly Benz,Bmw,Jag,Ferrari,Porsche,Lexus,Toyota Bently and so on. We were doing about 40-60 different cars a week. What we noticed was D300 looked great almost to the point of not needing nothing more then 301 to finish. At times and not all of them, there was issues with the cleaners in D301 removing the polishing oils and showing defects, but as polishing with 301 continued it then filled again. Hence keep in mind D301 is the finishing step. Keep in mind we wern`t removing D300 oils as these cars were auctions cars and I wasn`t getting paid for perfection. There are far to many varibles for us to sit and argue about the topic. Truthfully what it boils down to for me is what works at that moment. Thats why I stock compounds and polishes from several manufactuers. Just like a chef with his knives, I need a variety of tools to get the job at hand. Enjoy the forums.

**Kevin Brown** · 09-13-2012, 07:47 PM

Epic "filling" thread... Or is it "swelling"? :dizzy:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/guide-d...teresting.html

In regards to Barry`s mention of D301 clearing away oils left behind by D300... there are times where D301 can micro-haze (so can microfiber discs when used for finishing). Usually the culprit is abraded paint residue (mucking up the buffing liquid... causing fibes and abrasive particles to stick together.

Happy reading- it`s a great thread!! :sick:

**imported_WhyteWizard** · 09-13-2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by TH0001

BUT and it is a HUGE BUT, the outer edge of the pad is just one small area of the pad. As we move closer to the pads center the orbital motion becomes proportionately more significant.

Movement at 1 Inch:

Makita: 5,518

FLEX: 6,218

Movement at 3 Inches:

Makita: 9,725

FLEX: 9,231.6

Movement at 6.5 inches:

Makia: 17,089.75

FLEX: 14,506

Todd

Looking at the area of the pad from the outside in:

Between 6.5 inches and 5.5 inches, where the movement is greatest, there are 9.20 square inches.

From 5.5 inches to 4.5 inches there are 7.87 square inches.

From 4.5 inches to 3.5 inches there are 6.28 square inches.

From 3.5 inches to 2.5 inches there are 4.71 square inches.

From 2.5 inches to 1.5 inches there are 3.14 square inches.

The 1.5 inch center accounts for 1.76 square inches.

Obviously, the movement of the 9.2 square inches at the outer edge is much more significant than the movement of the 1.76 square inches in the center of the pad.

Weighted for movement of the pad at every point I have to wonder why people are so concerned about getting smaller pads. I know they fit into the tight areas better, but the movement you give up, on the Makita at least, has to cost a lot of time when it comes to getting movement between the pad and the paint, in short, getting work done.

When people watch my high speed work they think I`m running the rpms too high, but I use a smaller backing plate so the speed at the point if contact is about the same as everyone else.

Your numbers helped me figure out why exactly I got the results I observed in practice, so thank you.

All the best,

Robert

**Junebug** · 09-14-2012, 06:48 AM

It`s at Home Depot? I get little bonus points at work where we can redeem them for stuff or gift cards, I have $250.00 in gift cards.......at LOWES!!

Friggin story of my life, like Rodney Dangrfield said," I`d buy a cementary and people would quit dying,"

**Garry Dean** · 09-14-2012, 06:50 AM

Originally Posted by JuneBug

It`s at Home Depot? I get little bonus points at work where we can redeem them for stuff or gift cards, I have $250.00 in gift cards.......at LOWES!!

Friggin story of my life, like Rodney Dangrfield said," I`d buy a cementary and people would quit dying,"

Yeah, $299 @ Home Depot. I may just go into the store and pick one up. Its a really nice machine.

**Garry Dean** · 09-14-2012, 08:04 AM

Ok, I have mentioned how much I like the bo6040 for cutting, but now I am attempting to polish with it and I am seeing better results from my PC...

I just cant seem to get the Makita with a white pad to produce the same gloss as the PC with a white B&S pad on speed 4. It seems like the PC is finishing better... I will keep you all posted.

**imported_RZJZA80** · 09-14-2012, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by Garry Dean

Ok, I have mentioned how much I like the bo6040 for cutting, but now I am attempting to polish with it and I am seeing better results from my PC...

I just cant seem to get the Makita with a white pad to produce the same gloss as the PC with a white B&S pad on speed 4. It seems like the PC is finishing better... I will keep you all posted.

Interesting....any theories why? Wanted to pick one up but I think I`ll wait for your feedback

**imported_WhyteWizard** · 09-14-2012, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Garry Dean

Ok, I have mentioned how much I like the bo6040 for cutting, but now I am attempting to polish with it and I am seeing better results from my PC...

I just cant seem to get the Makita with a white pad to produce the same gloss as the PC with a white B&S pad on speed 4. It seems like the PC is finishing better... I will keep you all posted.

Try the orange foam pad, with the H2 or W2 I sent and run the speed up all the way and more pressure rather than less. Be sure there`s no cross contamination though, those products don`t play well with others, clean the surface clean clean first.

See how I`m running it on the 31 Chrysler in my video, running till there`s almost no material left and the shine has really developed. That leaves a cobweb free finish, not just swirl free.

Robert